I was watching the time trial world championships and the 8-10 times I counted Cancellara’s cadence it was right at 120 each time. He didn’t seem to be bouncing like someone who’s cadence is too high. I like to TT at 102-108, after that I feel bouncy. I didn’t count any other racers b/c none of the others seemed to be spinning nearly as much as he was. Am I missing out on trying to spin 120. Is there a line where once cadence increases watts or mph begin to decrease?
thanks
Barry
I was watching the time trial world championships and the 8-10 times I counted Cancellara’s cadence it was right at 120 each time. He didn’t seem to be bouncing like someone who’s cadence is too high. I like to TT at 102-108, after that I feel bouncy. I didn’t count any other racers b/c none of the others seemed to be spinning nearly as much as he was. Am I missing out on trying to spin 120. Is there a line where once cadence increases watts or mph begin to decrease?
thanks
Barry
I’m sure people with better insight than myself will respond but…
It depends on your ability to spin perfect circles and the amount of power that is being applied. i.e. I bet if you were in the 53x12 gearing on flat terrain with no wind and you were spinning 120 rpm you would not be bouncing.
As jeremy notes, it’s all about how you make circles. If you push down too much, the upstoke / downstroke combo will end up too fast with the rest of the cycle (TDC and BDC) slowing down too far creating an acceleration on every stoke that your muscles will not appreciate. Doing one-leg exercises and focusing on applying force evenly around the pedal axis will help significantly. Some of the gimmick rings could also help.
I personally have to train myself up to the 120 range, which I do twice a year for a time trial. Typically I ride in the 95rpm range for long rides, but when it’s time for an all out TT at the end of the season, I hit the spin bikes at the gym a couple of times a week to bring my comfort level up at higher cadences. I can usually go from 105 to 120 in about 4 sessions. The primary issue for me is that my HR goes up linearly starting at 100rpm (170bpm) to 120 (190bpm), so there is definitely more cardiac stress.
Chris
Is there a line where once cadence increases watts or mph begin to decrease?
Due to the fact there is a direct link between your crankshaft and wheel, if your cadence is still increasing, then you are going to be traveling faster.
I think what you are thinking about is a torque curve. Just think about cars, some cars have their torque at lower RPM’s and some have it at higher RPM’s. Power is a function of torque and RPM. You can get the same amount of power out of a 4 cylinder as an 8 cylinder by having the torque at higher RPM. Also, think about if you are trying to go from 0-60 in the fastest amount of time you need to find the optimal time to shifter from one gear to the next, this will depend on your torque curve. I think this is what you are asking, when should one shift to the next gear. It just depends where you create torque.
As far as cycling is concerned, you will produce more power at higher cadences until your neurological system and muscles are unable to do so efficiently. It also is less energy efficient to spin at these higher rpm’s and that is why you don’t want to do this for long rides.
It’s a good question, but impossible to answer in general. Specifically for you, it could be answered through lab analysis.
Consider that crank arm length is a big input. If you can spin 100rpm on 175mm cranks, you can spin 120 on 165mm cranks (I pulled that out of the air, but you should get the idea).
i don’t get the idea, and i would disagree
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If the rings help, would they still be a gimmick?
Of course not, and I do believe that they can help a lot of people. However, I am not going to sit here and think of all the companies who make those types of products when I can just use a semi offensive word that everyone will understand is referencing the entire product concept.
Chris
Is there a point where I high cadence causes injury issues?
This year I started doing a weekly bike time trial for the first time. On a group ride my cadence i usually avg 80-85rpm, on a weekly time trial I hit 90-95rpm. For a while that was transfering to my solo rides where my cadence was up; 90’s again, and I was averaging in the 20’s with less work. So all was good. Problem was I was finding my Achilles and calfs were getting very sore and was on the vege of getting serious.
I know higher cadence is better, but could too high a cadence be causing other problems?
I didn’t count any other racers b/c none of the others seemed to be spinning nearly as much as he was. Am I missing out on trying to spin 120. Is there a line where once cadence increases watts or mph begin to decrease?
No… if there was, then his competitors are the ones who should really be concerned.
Optimum cadence tends to increase with power output. Guys who set world hour records tend to have a cadence slightly over 100. But this can vary quite a bit also. Some strong amateurs pedal at <80 rpm in 1 hr TTs.
Nothing wrong with playing around with your cadence, but IME the effect it has on power is quite small… provided that it is reasonable and you have time to adapt.
i don’t get the idea, and i would disagree
You would have to ‘get the idea’ before you could agree or disagree.
And I’m right, so you should seek to understand. 
are there any other good ideas in the air I am missing out in? not many ideas floating around the skies in my parts
have you checked your cleat position? the further the cleat from your heal the more calf recruitment you will have. Higher cadence recruits more hamstring activation. Make sure your seat isn’t too high or too forward if you are trying to spin at 90+rpm
I know higher cadence is better
How do you “know” this?
My observations on the subject:
-Most effective cadence tends to rise as power rises (i.e the most effective cadence is higher for a 40K TT than for an Ironman bike leg)
-In trained cyclists, self-selected cadences tend to be the most effective
-Nothing like testing with a power meter to find out which cadence allows you to produce the greatest power for a given duration
even though self selected cadences arent always better, in swimming running or biking, testing with a power meter is a great to determine your ideal cadence
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I found the same thing when I went from my 180s to 170s. Power did not change, but I was using 105-112 to produce it with the 170s rather than 100-105.
Chad
Actually a slower cadence is more efficient.
Or so says a book sitting on my shelf by some guy named Burke. (RIP)
Define more efficient. Slower cadence might result in lower heat rate, but will have its corresponding downside in doing more tissue damage–or something like that. Otherwise, why don’t cyclist all ride around at 60 rpm?
Chad
Efficient does not necessarily equal effective.
As jeremy notes, it’s all about how you make circles. If you push down too much, the upstoke / downstroke combo will end up too fast with the rest of the cycle (TDC and BDC) slowing down too far creating an acceleration on every stoke that your muscles will not appreciate. Doing one-leg exercises and focusing on applying force evenly around the pedal axis will help significantly. Some of the gimmick rings could also help.
This is one of those joke posts that I usually miss (thinking the poster was serious) and was supposed to be in pink, right?
There was a question about efficiency.
Gross Metabolic Efficiency = Mechanical Work / Metabolic Work.
Typically ~ 19-24% for endurance cyclists.
In general, lower cadences are more efficient but that does not make them more effective. It’s speed we are primarily concerned with, although for ultra endurance events, efficiency may become a factor to consider.