At what age do most professionals hit the glass ceiling?

The Coffee Shop
1

This post is more for the benefit of my wife. She’s a pharmaceutical research chemist and, supposedly, the majority of her department has more or less been told that they’ve hit the ceiling already in their mid 30s. Now, truth be told, just about anyone can avoid the ceiling provided they make the moves necessary to move up. But, nevertheless, most organizations are built on the german spiked helmet model where everyone advances in the first half of their career, and then a point come where only a small minority continues to advance.

So my question is, about where in the career does that point typically fall? Would I be correct if I guessed its at around 10-15 years?

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She’s a pharmaceutical research chemist

So my question is, about where in the career does that point typically fall?

Now, truth be told, just about anyone can avoid the ceiling provided they make the moves necessary to move up.

As you said “Truth be told you can avoid it” where you “Hit it” is pretty much a personal choice.

I’m also assuming that “Glass ceiling” in this case, means the point where your income “Flattens” and you have pretty much the same job and no more money outside of inflation and the occasional “Bone” performance increase.

I would think “Were you hit it” is going to be really dependent on ones job. I would suspect that the more complex the job and more “On the job training” necessary the longer it would take.

So while some jobs, in essence, may be “Glass ceiling’d” right out of college or very shortly there after, others might take more than the 10-15 years you mentioned.

At the same time in some careers you’re pretty much meant to not hit the glass ceiling, IOW you better move to the next level or they fire you.

~Matt

3

Good points. There still has to be a statistical average to give us a typical value…somewhere between 1 year and 40 years?

Anyone else?

4

Good points. There still has to be a statistical average to give us a typical value…somewhere between 1 year and 40 years?

I think we’d have to narrow “Career” down first. If we include “Burger flipper” as a career, which it is for some, then the answer would be pretty meaningless.

So let’s narrow it down to “Careers with a Bachelors or better”.

I also think you’d have to narrow it down after that to mean "Careers for a person with no desire to “Move up the ladder”.

That being the case I would say that the number is much smaller than the one you gave, maybe 5 or less.

Look at teaching for instance. You’ve basically “Hit the ceiling” the second you’ve taken the job. Every raise you get is based on how long you’ve been there assuming you don’t try to “Move up” by getting a further degree, move to principle or something else. At the same token even something as complex as engineering you can pretty quickly hit the ceiling, again assuming you don’t try to move into any “Upper level” engineering, management etc.

As you said in almost any carreer it’s pretty easy to avoid the ceiling and I think most people with careers actually hit the ceiling and then avoid it a couple times before they “Hit it” and stop.

So a teacher will get a degree and other credits and “Avoid the ceiling” of the minimal education. An engineer will move from “Glorified Draftsman” right out of college to doing real engineering and then move to project management then maybe an engineering management position and so on. The issue is that after every “Avoidance” it becomes harder to avoid the next ceiling.

So in soild basic terms I would say your typical job will hit the first ceiling in a range from 0-5 years. I would say those “First ceilings” are probably pretty easy to avoid and most people do it by default without much effort.

I also think many people “Actively” avoid these ceilings and only say they “Hit the ceiling” when nothing but either a serious career change or serious additional work will get them to the next level. Moving into another field, additional degrees etc. I think for most this doesn’t happen until later in most careers, probably 10-20 years.

All completely WAG’s…which is what I do best :slight_smile:

So in summary I think you have to look at it two ways.

1 - If a person with a degree gets a job, learns the job and nothing more when will they hit the point where they make no more money than the typical annual increase. IMO that comes quickly and for most jobs less than five years.

2- If a person with a degree gets a job, learns the job plus learns everything else they can about the company. Works to move up the “Company ladder” at what point will they hit the point at which the only way they can continue to move up is thru different methods than “On the job learning”, I would say that comes latter, 10-20 years or so.

The guy in the first scenario can “Move up” by simply putting forth a little more effort in many cases. The guy in the second scenario will have to either get another degree, change companies or possibly even careers to go any further.

FWIW the guy in the first scenario probably wouldn’t say he “Hit the ceiling”, likely because they really don’t care…which is why they’ve hit the ceiling. Only the persons in the second scenario would notice, because they’ve worked to get there.

~Matt

5

Again, good points. But again, this applies mainly at the individual level. IOW, if I am willing to work 50-60 hours a week, volunteer to head up a bunch of teams, and move my family all over the country, I’ll likely never hit the ceiling. However, that woul dchange if everyone did that.

Let me explain it this way. My father-in-law spoke of always looking to get that next promotion. I threw this at him: He is in charge of 4 people who are each in charge of 10. When he retires, how many people do you think will get promoted? Two…or roughly 4%.

I would argue in an office like this, 2% hit the glass ceiling at his position, 6% hit it at the position lower than him, and another 92% hit it at the position lower than than that. Sure, an individual can rise all the way up to his level, but as a matter of simple math, 92% of the people will never get past their position in the department.

So, again, I’m guessing in typical professional jobs (not teaching, of course) that the ceiling is at about 10-15 years for most people.

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I mostly agree and it all depends on what you’re going to define as “the ceiling”. For instance.

I would argue in an office like this, 2% hit the glass ceiling at his position, 6% hit it at the position lower than him, and another 92% hit it at the position lower than than that.

I would argue that in order to get to the top you have already avoided several glass ceilings and that took a decent enough amount of work.

I guess in short once you’ve decided “Hey I don’t want to be stopped by the glass ceiling” you keep going until you decide “Hey this crap ain’t worth it”. As you stated anyone could work 60-70hrs a week, move all over, go to school, etc etc and keep moving up.

**So, again, I’m guessing in typical professional jobs (not teaching, of course) that the ceiling is at about 10-15 years for most people. **

And again I don’t disagree, but the fact of the matter remains I’m not sure this is a “Glass ceiling” situation as much as a “Hey this crap ain’t worth it anymore” or “Why do I want to put in 10% more effort for 5% more money” type of thing.

I look at it this way. Person goes to school, get’s a degree, get’s out at 21-23 years old. Goes and gets a job, they are young, hungry, everything is new fun and exciting. 40K is good, 60K is better, 80K would be amazing and so on. So for several years they bust their buts, but once they get to 60K they are more established, working isn’t so fun, and living on 60K ain’t so bad. Many say “Screw it, I want to live my life” so they stay at 60K. Some move on to 80K and then some of that group end up saying the same thing at that level that the other people said at 60K.

Yes companies are designed to some degree the way you stated, person on top manages people below. But at the same time there are TONS of jobs with in that company that you can make more money and not “Manage”. Sales, production, learning more skills and being more productive and so on. So I’m not sure that “Moving up” is as much of a limiting factor as “Screw it I don’t want to work any harder to move up.”

And again, finally, I’m not sure if you can put a time frame on this without defining what “The ceiling is”. If defined as I did before “The point at which you can no longer make any more money in your current position without making some “Radical” change” the I think your 10-15year range is pretty close. I would think slightly longer than that even.

I see a whole bunch of 40-45 year olds that never really go any further. 20-25 years after graduating.

I think by that time you’ve accepted the “Well this is as far as I’m going” and the company starts to put you in the “Not moving on, not “Next level” material” so unless you go out get a different degree, switch companies to take an “Move up” position, you’re done. You spend the next 15+ years “Just doing your job”.

~Matt

7

And again I don’t disagree, but the fact of the matter remains I’m not sure this is a “Glass ceiling” situation as much as a “Hey this crap ain’t worth it anymore” or “Why do I want to put in 10% more effort for 5% more money” type of thing.

I hear ya, but…there’s still a limited number of high paying jobs compared to low ones. So if though its up to the individual to decide that this crap is worth it for them, there will still come a point at which most people can’t progress any further.

I think someone told me years ago that the way the structure generally works is that everyone gets promoted in the first 3 years, and then again in like 3-6 years. After that, the promotions dwindle off.

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**I hear ya, but…there’s still a limited number of high paying jobs compared to low ones. So if though its up to the individual to decide that this crap is worth it for them, there will still come a point at which most people can’t progress any further. **

Agreed. Every move up leaves you with a progressively more difficult step to move up further. At the same time your “Value” to the last dollar you earned goes down. So in essence there’s a whole lot of reason to not do anymore and less and less reason to do more.

I think someone told me years ago that the way the structure generally works is that everyone gets promoted in the first 3 years, and then again in like 3-6 years. After that, the promotions dwindle off.

I don’t have a whole lot of experience in the corporate world other than sitting around being a contractor and watching the comedy show. That being said that sounds about right for the companies I contracted at. I did see more than a couple guys that never got promoted. One guy was 40+ years old and still living with his parents, yes actually living WITH not them living with him. He was a degreed engineer that really hated his job. Came in every day, bitched moaned about it and did the very least he possibly could.

There also seems to be the “Fast trackers”. Sadly in both the companies I did long term contracts at the “Fast trackers” were the “Good ol’ boys” and tended to not be good at their jobs, but got promoted anyway because they were part of the club.

But all in all I’d say your 10-15 year guess is as good as any for a typically “Career hitting the ceiling”. Considering that I believe the average “Career” only lasts seven years it’s pretty easy to envision someone getting to a point of no more advancement in 10-15.

~Matt

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IMO - It completely depends on type of company. I’ve worked at younger high-tech companies (Microsoft many years ago and Amazon) and older companies (AT&T and Philips) Completely different cultures. In high-tech, if you haven’t made Director by early to mid-30s is isn’t likely going to happen. In older companies, age isn’t as limiting. It’s time at the company or previous titles that impact that.

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In high-tech, if you haven’t made Director by early to mid-30s is isn’t likely going to happen. In older companies, age isn’t as limiting. It’s time at the company or previous titles that impact that.]
while It depends what level of director you are referring to there are a lot more factors that come in the picture that just “in high-tech” since I have seen pretty much every combination and I am in high tech…
Fred.

11

This post is more for the benefit of my wife. She’s a pharmaceutical research chemist and, supposedly, the majority of her department has more or less been told that they’ve hit the ceiling already in their mid 30s. Now, truth be told, just about anyone can avoid the ceiling provided they make the moves necessary to move up. But, nevertheless, most organizations are built on the german spiked helmet model where everyone advances in the first half of their career, and then a point come where only a small minority continues to advance.

So my question is, about where in the career does that point typically fall? Would I be correct if I guessed its at around 10-15 years?

My experience is as a technical person, accountant, engineer, computer analysts, etc, you reach career level at about 15-20 years and top out. If you go the management route you can continue to move up if you are one of the few chosen ones.

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Fair enough. I put the companies that I’m using for reference because they may be atypical.

YMMV, IMO, etc.

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Different for men and women.

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well… if she spends all day on the internet like you, she is lucky to be employed.