Last night my Asics Mega LD spikes came in the mail. They fit like slippers and way about a trillionth of an ounce. Tomorrow I will be taking them into the shoe smiths and have the spikes ground off the spike plate and the whole bottom resoled. I will then do 3 weeks of longs walks in them and then 12 weeks of Jack Daniel’s run/walk program fro beginners.
This is the last ditch effort to save my legs. For the past few years my legs have been nothing but pain and the orthotics and professionally picked out over cushioned, over controlled monsters have done nothing for me.
I will update when new news comes and will call this experiment “Dial Asics for Murder”.
I certainly hope this works for you, especially for all the bother you’re going through in this de-spiking, re-soling procedure. Did you ever try the Vitruvians? I think they were mentioned to you in some other thread, and even though I’ve never tried them I saw them at the Boston expo last year and they appear to be a far cry from over-cushioned and over-controlling. I kind of wish I had tried on a pair, but didn’t and can’t give you any personal accounts. Finally, have you tried the very gradual approach you mention above with “regular” running shoes? That approach seems very sensible given your leg problems, and I would figure it would work in any half-decent running shoe suitable for your foot type. I’ll be very interested to see what La Woof has to say about all of this. Happy strolling (for now)!
I have run in everything and really settled on Asics. It a highly individual matter, but they are durable, well made, fit me very well and have a couple models that are perfectly suited for my weight and mechanics. I like 'em.
For some people, gradual just doesn’t work. In my case, it isn’t a problem of overdoing it, it’s a problem of messing with the biomechanics of the foot. I don’t know about Tibbs, but the only thing that has helped me (actually, completely alleviated my medial tibial stress syndrome, aka shin splints) is going to a minimal shoe, and I have tried everything. Whether or not he can handle something as minimal as he’s starting with is up for debate, but if nothing else has worked, he’s got nothing to lose.
Down with running shoes! Tibbs will be eating nails on his long runs for nutrition on no time.
Some people think that we’re nuts and our poor legs are going to be trashed. The funny part is that they’re the ones with all the plantar, IT, calf and general leg problems.
Ohhhhhhh, my arches need support.Ohhhhhhhh
You have high arches, you need need arch support. You have low arches you need arch support. whatever.
What about the pounding? your poor knees and the pounding. Well, I say stop running like and idiot and run smooth and you kness will get srtonger than ever.
I worry about injury in the water MUCH more than I worry about it while runing.
Happy days! Another convert to better runing shoes.
Your theories have successfully cured me of my MTSS - something doctors, chiro’s, PT’s, MRI’s, orthotics, massage, stability shoes, MC shoes, blah blah blah couldn’t for the past 5 years. I’m not out of the woods yet, but if I continue and can get up to running regularly, I will have to find some way to thank you.
The immediate thing I notice is that the jarring in my knees and upper body is significantly reduced. My knees feel great. The feet and lower leg just need to adapt.
You should have seen me going round and round with the running shoe guy to sell me some racing flats. I know he meant well trying to sell me the standard stuff, and I seemed crazy, but I’ve been down that road before, I know where it leads.
I’ve been wanting to thank you for a while, but I wanted to wait until I was sure everything was going to be okay. I’ll be sure to check back in with my results, as I hope Tibbs will as well.
I alway get a little nervoius dolling this out over the internet because I dont have total control over the shoe, the runner and the training. Glad to hear that it is working out for you.
Good that you are taking your time. It is a relitively long process to get totally strong, around 1200 miles is what I have found. You can get plenty strong and feeling great at about 300, but at around 1200 the body goes through another change in the way it interfaces with the ground. After that, look out!
So does this mean that I am no longer blacklisted?
I was doing some bearefoot running on a cricket field near my house last night - a beautiful warm(26 celcius) Autumn evening, perfect grass underfoot, and I nearly forgot my Asics DS Trainers at the side of the pitch when it was time to run home!
Best way to build ankle and arch strength - I have high arches. I’m convinced that a combination of Asics Kayanos and orthotics caused my knee operation last year (cyst removed).
The Kayano is the single worst running shoe made. The Brooks Beast is a better shoe than the Kayano. Who the hell needs to be 27mm off the ground when running?
Hey…I wonder if we could prove that the shoe caused your problem and get a nasty little suit filed over it. That would be fun!
After the Kayano, what’s the next? And then the next? And then the next? Or is it much easier to write a list of the “conventional” running shoes that you consider to be non-problematic? And going one step further, beyond height-off-the-ground, what are the factors you consider to be detrimental in conventional running shoes? Thanks for whatever you feel up to informing us about.
After the Kayano, what’s the next? And then the next? And then the next? Or is it much easier to write a list of the “conventional” running shoes that you consider to be non-problematic? And going one step further, beyond height-off-the-ground, what are the factors you consider to be detrimental in conventional running shoes? Thanks for whatever you feel up to informing us about.
I’m not Wolfie, nor am I former deputy of defense or newly appointed head of the World Bank, but my road to minimal shoes began when two pairs of Adidas shoes I’d been using caused major lower leg problems. After much examination of what had gone wrong after over 20 years of injury-free running I concluded that the only thing I’d changed was shoes. The one characteristic those particular shoes had that was different from before was a higher heel height.
So once I could run again I started going back down the ladder of progressively lower heel height, with the main shoe being the Asics DS Racer, and now even the Nike Free seems to me as if it has too much heel. I love the flexibility and the sock-like upper, but I like the fit and low heel of the Katana Racer even more.
Again, sorry if I’m not the expert pundit you addressed the questions to, but essentially the detrimental factors in running shoes have to do with anything that interferes with your most efficient running stride, including lack of flexibility and excessive distance from the surface. So rather than looking for shoes to protect us from the horrible shock of running, I’ve found that we should be looking for ways to adapt to the shock and minimize it by becoming a more efficient runner, and that’s one way in which minimal shoes have helped me. I will have no qualms about using Nike Frees or Katana Racers for any or all of my long runs, or for the marathon leg of my next Ironman, and I’m now even looking forward to trying the Puma H Streets some time soon.
What do you think about switching shoes every other day?
I run in a pair of Asics GT2100 with orthotics and have for a long time been wanting to be able to run in racing flats and also get rid of my orthotics. So my idea to get my legs used to the new way of running was to run one day in the flats and the next in my old ones.
I would have tried it a long time ago if I wasn’t such a cheap bastard and also cause I haven’t had any problems with my legs for a while now.
Maybe this would be even more strenuous on the legs than just to switch over totally and start walk/jogging. I don’t know. Any opinions?
I think it makes a lot of sense that it would be better to strenghten the muscels and ligaments involved in running rather than supporting them and thereby in the long run weekening them. Let’s do it as they did in the old days or at least as close as is possible on a paved road.
I’m personally a New Balance girl. I have run in a lot of shoes (Saucony was my least favorite ever - the balls of my feet and my toes would go numb after 2 miles everytime!) but the ones that seem to work the best for me are New Balance. Have you heard much about the 766 model? According to Runner’s World it’s pretty good. I was thinking about trying it out. Any thoughts?
happy that it works for you, but it’s not a panacea. I assume you’re using a POSE-like running form ? This shifts the stresses from the knee to the ankle, it does not reduce the overall stress. It might well work for those with weak knees and strong ankles, but in the long run, I’d expect achilles/calf/ankle problems to start appearing.
Running shoes are better now than they have ever been, in my 30 years of experience. It’s bizarre to see people complaining about ‘over-cushioning’ and ‘over-control’. Just buy the shoes that fit your foot type, how hard is that ? There are plenty of fine minimalist shoes out there - I buy a new pair every year, and there’s always a large array to choose from. Right now I’m making up my mind between: Asics Gel-Flash DS, Saucony Azura (latest generation, whatever that is), Nike Pegasus racer (maybe, I still don’t like Nike), Reebok Road Premier Lite II, and Brooks Racer ST. I had the Reeboks last year and they were great, but I’m leaning to the Asics.
When I originally went from MC to spikeless XC shoes (a year ago), I tried using POSE principles (didn’t buy the book, so who knows how much I was getting right - I focused on high cadence, forefoot, etc.). I still developed MTSS, and I ended up hurt in other areas too, and it felt like I was pounding. I abandoned that experiment and went on.
This last time, after a year more of nothing working, I decided to give minimal another try, but this time just running (as I’ve seen LaWoof suggest many times), I did also focus on trying to keep the cadence up as well. I come down heel first in the minimal shoes, but it is a much lighter impact than with the built up shoes. I started running indoors on a treadmill, and found that the spikeless XC shoes were fine. When I went outdoors, I found my calves got a lot more fatigued, and it seemed a little rough, so I’ve gone up a little in support and heel lift by going to the Asics DS racer. They felt much better running outdoors, very good actually. I still want to use the XC shoes, but maybe not as much right now while I’m starting to adapt.
So as far as I’m concerned right now, I have no interest in POSE, just letting the body guide me. I am finding, a more minimal shoe is giving me very positive results. Give me a few more months/year, and I’ll know if this experiment is going to work or not. For me, if it doesn’t, I’m no worse than I was before.
I’m complaining about over-cushioning and over-control, because as soon as I talked to Drs/PT’s/chiros office/running shoe people about having shin splint problems, all the sudden I have a huge ass shoe on my foot that cost $120 bucks, a $400 dollar pair of orthotics put inside of those, and my shins still hurt.
“as soon as I talked to Drs/PT’s/chiros office/running shoe people about having shin splint problems, all the sudden I have a huge ass shoe on my foot that cost $120 bucks, a $400 dollar pair of orthotics put inside of those, and my shins still hurt.”
