Having just returned from a big European long distance event I am left with the impression that the overall quality of the field is better in Europe than in the U.S.
Now, maybe that is becasue I am in bad shape and got my ass kicked.
Or maybe:
A well established club system in Europe, fully evident at the race I was at (Nice) has helped build better athletes.
Cycling being a cornerstone of the sport and being a much larger part of sporting culture in Europe than the U.S. there are more sophisticated training techniques, a higher “work ethic” and fewer entry level athletes.
There was a distinct lack of participants doing the race to “prove something”, which seems to account for a larger percentage of U.S. Ironman fields. The people at this race were athletes- this is just what they did.
don’t forget the drugs…oops did i say that outloud? crap.
seriously though, sports in general in europe is more of a lifestyle than a hobby or ego booster the way it is here. it is encouraged and supported. the club level of most sports over there has better competition than most semi pro stuff here. and with seeing stuff like the recent post regarding michigan state bike laws, it doesn’t look to be getting any better on this side of the pond. sigh
I started racing Triathlons when I was still living in Belgium. So I’ve seen both side of the pond.
The club structure is much more established over there than here for sure. Everybody was in a club. We had two swim practices a week and than some group rides and run workouts. We only had a paid swim coach though. Yes, quite a few members came from a cycling background and used to race bikes as junoirs or amateurs. In order to participate in Triathlons you had to have a license issued by the national Belgian federation. THis was not optional as is here the USAT or OAT memberships. Also as part of this license you had to take a fitness test that included a VO2max test. Based on that test you could get a license for either olypmic distance, half or full ironman distance. There was no differentiation between age groupers and pros. The first one over the line won and got the money.
The Belgian federation had a races series called the ‘superprestige’. In order to participate you had to have at least a official 2:20 finish for an Olympic distance tri. Based on the number of qualified members, each club had a number of available spots at those races. The field was limited to 300 athletes. 45 miutes after the first finisher was the cut off time at those races. I remember on tri in 92 where a clubmate finished in 2:18 to be second to last.
I think the difference here is that people try to make money at organizing events, so they don’t really care what shape people are in. They just want lots of people in their races. There also is no real club structure around here and the one that I know off (C3) is also trying to make money off the athlete and cost IMHO is a total ripp-off.
In general, I don’t think so. As you have observed, this is a top notch event. A lot of people use it to close out their long distance season (those who don’t think Hawaii is worth the money). It used to be THE european long course championship race. It is also a very “established” race and got their organization nailed down. Very prestigeous. And you just have to love the “short” run!
- A well established club system in Europe, fully evident at the race I was at (Nice) has helped build better athletes.
Clubs: Yes. Training: Don’t think so.
And some smart ass already brought up that we dope more, do we!?
- Cycling being a cornerstone of the sport and being a much larger part of sporting culture in Europe than the U.S. there are more sophisticated training techniques, a higher “work ethic” and fewer entry level athletes.**
I think with Southern France it is the same as over here: You may get on the AG-podium in an Al, GA or SC, NC championship, but if you go race CA you are going to have a tough time getting top 10.
There was a distinct lack of participants doing the race to “prove something”, which seems to account for a larger percentage of U.S. Ironman fields. The people at this race were athletes- this is just what they did.
You are right, people who have to prove something race M-Dot races. Same as over here …
No doubt in my mind that the European fields are stronger. I spent 7 years in the European club system. I was the worst guy in my club and my IM times were in the low 10 hours. In fact, I did not even think about doing an IM until I had several years of intense training under my belt which included solid 1/2 IM performances. I never knew what a BOP person was (except for myself). No one, and I repeat no one, that I ever met in triathlon would have ever thought about doing an IM in their first year like they do in the US, or without any triathlon/racing background, and you never saw anyone at any races that was seriously out of shape. There were no clysdales or athenas in Europe - that is just unheard of (at least before I moved back to the US 6 years ago).
As the other post stated above for Belgium, the club system requires you to physically qualify for a racing license. You then have to qualify to enter the club based on racing results. Then you get the opportunity for coaching - we had a swim coach two mornings per week, a running coach one night per week at the track, weekly club rides, 2-4 triathlon camps (Mallorca for cycling, several day offsite for triathlon specific days), plus nutrition guidance and training plans tailored to us. The incredible part was that all the coaching only cost $50 per year - that’s right, it was funded by the government. The training camps were different.
I almost always attended all the club training sessions since there is a lot of pressure to have good results with your club peers. The pressure is intense to have good results in bike races, marathons, 10K’s, etc. etc. The system weeds out the non-committed.
The other incredible thing is that most of the countries in Europe operate under the club system for triathlon.
I see a lot of really good triathles in the US that amaze me as to how they can achieve such fast results without the club system. And there seem to be many. So are athletes better in Europe, no but they have a whole different level of committment as a whole.
The main difference between Europe and the US is that people doing triathlons here are mostly athletes. In the US there are a lot of people doing it just to finish in order to prove apoint, either for themselves or others.
The club system is also a big part in having mostly athletes racing, since it helps to develop athletes faster and it serves as peer pressure in order to push people harder or drive them out of the sport. That’s why participation is lower but higher quality.
In the U.S. finishing a triathlon makes you a fully self-actualized, well adjusted, “invincible”, fully capable type “A” hyper-successful person. Since merely doing Ironman is the easiest way to get that, a lot of people do it.
In Europe maybe doing Ironman just means you can swim 2.4 miles, bike 112 and run 26.2.
Don’t forget that in Europe it’s pretty much unheard of (at least in Italy) for people to ‘start’ in a sport ‘late’ in life, in general you start in your teens (or even earlier) and you just keep it up.
Also in most/all Italian races (tri or running) you have to have a federation card in order to partecipate, you can’t ‘just sign up’, and pretty much everybody is member of some sort of club as well.
Rumours abound that there are a lot of PEDs going around at the AG level as well.
I am not sure if they are not, but a friend was racing IM Lanzarote and was friendly with a group of Germans which included Hellriegle. On finding out that my friends finishing times, he said “ah, so you are a tourist” We had a good laugh about it.
There is definitely a different attitude in europe from participation to competition but I think this is changing by looking at the participation in the London Tri or the large marathons that they field over there. So maybe in a few years you will see a situation more akin to what is happening here. Maybe the UK slowtwitchers can comment
I think you guys all covered it off pretty well. In Europe, most of the athletes are hard core and there is a system in place that grooms the hard core and weeds out the non committed. Very few people do sport just as a hobby, go from couch potato to Ironman in a year or start racing in mid thirties or when they have their 40year old mid life crisis. The guys racing age group in Europe, typically have been athletes (not neccessarily triathletes) since their teens and have never stopped “training and competing”. I finished Roth in 10:59 in 1993 after suffering two flats during the race and having only one spare tubular. Anyway, I barely broke into the top 800 overall with that time. There were 50 guys sub 9 hours on that day and the last qual time in 25-29 was something like 9:08. For 35-39, you had to go 9:28 and this was when Roth was “Ironman Europe” and had 200 qualifer slots for 2200 entrants.
I read an interview in Runner’s World with Sarah Ferguson, Dutchess of York (?) about her running. Her participation will no doubt inspire others in the UK- at least I think it will.
Personally, I think she’s kinda cute in her own way.
There is no bloody chance of that! People like Paula and Kelly Holmes are regarded as a bit freaky by most non sporting types. Heck I think they a bit freaky! But the likes of Fergie, Opra etc. make much better role models for the average woman. the notion of “f they can do it I can” prevades whereas with Paula and Kelly how many of us can even dream of knowing what its like to run 4min miles for the entire marathon? Now 5hr marathon that is a diferent story.
Speaking as a 39 year old American that’s just finished his first season of triathlon, it can also be just something new and fun to do that’s similar to things that I have done before (running marathons since age 34 and swimming from age 9 to 20). I think this thread demonstrates some real differences about how Europeans and Americans can think about some things. In this particular case, it’s just kind of an interesting observation. In others, well, that’s a subject for Tibbs’ room.
Absolutely the Euro fields are stronger than the US. Not as many ‘weekend warrior’ types in Europe. I recently (1.5 years ago) moved back to the states from Germany. I was by far the slowest guy on my club team. Here, I can place in the front of the MOP at the local races. At least the Germans seemed to have the attitude that if you were going to do it, you should be serious about it. Combine that with a workweek that has significantly fewer hours, you get the time to train that many US age groupers only dream about.
As a lurker on a Dutch tri-forum, just the other day someone posted a question about what was needed for him to prepare for an Ironman distance. He mentioned that he was a sub 1:10 half marathon runner, and the concensus of the forum was that he should start with Oly distance, slowly working up to IM distance over the course of two to three years!
Over here people would say “just do it”. I have to say that the “can do” mentality in the US is a breath of fresh air, compared to the Euro’s.
You’re in a country where it seems almost everyone smokes, yet the IM field is stronger?
This makes me wonder if it is only elite athletes that do tris in Europe? Then what does the rest of the population do for athletic activities? Are there lower level triathlons for recreational athletes or is Europe polarized between elite athletes and smokers with no in between?
Personally I think somebody going from a couch potatoe starting later in life to finishing an IM in a year is a very positive thing. We’d have a much stronger society if more ordinary people were encouraged to do this. It’s very sad IMO if the Euro club system eliminates these people from participating as you are suggesting.
Maybe I’m just misinterpreting here, and it’s been many years since I last spent time in Europe, so would somebody please fill the rest of us in on the bigger picture.
I’d say the fields are definitely stronger. Just look at the times at the Euro IM’s compared to the IMNA events.** Loads** of people going sub 9, 10, and 11.
A well established club system in Europe, fully evident at the race I was at (Nice) has helped build better athletes.
You bet your ass it does.
I think it would be great it USAT instituted the club system. Give it 5 years and you would probably see the caliber of our international pros jump up a bit as well as the 2nd and 3rd tier elites.
The above seems to support the view that fields in Europe are stronger performance wise than USA. The Australian field is equivalent to Europe and perhaps a bit stronger. The Australian result is influenced by the fact that the majority of locals have to qualify through half IMs to race.
It seems like there is one big difference between US and Euro IM-ers.
The “Euro way” for AG-ers is to train regularly, 11-12 months, year after year - not very high volumes, but after 3-10 years even 10H a week makes you a good AG-er. It’s a lifestyle, with volumes that makes it possible to take care of work, family and friends. Seems like the “US way” is more like doing nothing for years, than 6 months focus on training (with high dedication and high volumes), do an IM, and then several months rest.
