http://www.cyclingnews.com/...blood-levels-debated
I mostly like this because I mostly think Armstrong is one of the biggest ________ (fill it yourself) in cycling. (greatest, worsest, jerk, awesome dude)…Personally i go with egomaniac…
Bizzare. His crit was like 39-41% throughout the tour. His retic was 0.7-1. If he is blood doping, he is doing a shitty job of it. If he is taking EPO or something like it, he isn’t taking enough to boost his RBC production above expected baseline.
Now if he has found a way to put extra mitochondria in his myocytes, then he deserves a Nobel Prize.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/...blood-levels-debated
I mostly like this because I mostly think Armstrong is one of the biggest hemofreak in cycling.
I hope he is not doping and that he is just a one in a million physiological freak. If he is doping, I hope he gets caught.
Sergio
well in todays tour you can’t safely use EPO
you have to do it the old fashioned way, and its probably harder to hit right on 49%
that his values didn’t go down could just mean he has a physiological talent. one that his entire career reflects (that he doesn’t get weaker as the tour goes on)
the reticulocytes dropping when they shouldn’t seems like a more suspicious indicator. anyone know enough biology to comment on that?
Bizzare. His crit was like 39-41% throughout the tour. His retic was 0.7-1. If he is blood doping, he is doing a shitty job of it. If he is taking EPO or something like it, he isn’t taking enough to boost his RBC production above expected baseline.
Now if he has found a way to put extra mitochondria in his myocytes, then he deserves a Nobel Prize.
You can’t go from 43 to 49 even with autologous blood doping because it would raise a flag in the passport program. However, if you use autologous blood doping to maintain your crit when it would be expected to drop (like during a 3 week stage race) then you could sail under the radar of the passport program, right?
Either “he’s a freak” which would explain the irregularities, he was blood doping, or he got third and could’ve won because he was battling diarears and dehydration.
Either way, people have chose sides on the Lance issue and this latest revelation won’t convince anyone on either side that they’re wrong.
Does anyone knows what was the HCT on those LA samples that were suposed to be positive for EPO?
I was expecting Lance’s HCT to average above 45 over the year. Those HCT values from my own experience look surprisingly familiar compared to those of a road rider that does not dope, trains and races hard. Not close at all to those mythical values of Mr. Riis. It is clear that you do not need a HCT over 45 to win the TdF.
As I mentioned before, I hope (almost praying) Lance is not doping.
Sergio
Those were urine samples so I don’t think anyone has those numbers. If I had to guess I’d say that his HCT was right around 49 during his 7 Tour wins.
As for his lower number now, the issue isn’t how low it is, the issue is that it didn’t drop during the Tour like it would be expected to and like his numbers dropped during the Giro. But as the article states, there are other explanations.
Those were urine samples so I don’t think anyone has those numbers. If I had to guess I’d say that his HCT was right around 49 during his 7 Tour wins.
As for his lower number now, the issue isn’t how low it is, the issue is that it didn’t drop during the Tour like it would be expected to and like his numbers dropped during the Giro. But as the article states, there are other explanations.
But it is probable that they also tested for blood concurrently to the urine samples. It would be interesting to know those HCT values.
Are you saying that his HCT was right around 49 in hos 7 TdF win based on a reliable source? Averaging 49 in his past 7 wins against his current values is enough to raise more than an eyebrow.
Sergio
Unusual yes, but nothing conclusive. I was surprised to see a lower hct than I expected given LA had been living in Aspen (a hct up to 52 or so can even be normal). You need bigger numbers (all of the grand tour peleton tested at multiple time points thru the 3 grand tours) and more data. At least, he had the guts to post his lab values despite knowing they would come under serious scrutiny. I would love to see the values of the top 20 at the tour inclding AC’s values.
Why do you think his HCT would have been around 49 during his grand tour wins? I thought (and confess that I am no expert) that HCT, like resting HR, was one of those measures where people could excel without being near the top. I know that having a high HCT does not mean that you will be fast because mine has tested as high as 48.5, and I am definitely a MOP racer.
Since the blood levels are posted on his personal website and are subject to ongoing “editing” by whoever maintains that page (there had been a post or two about that the data had been “smoothed” over), this whole debate is ridiculous and somebody should tell the Danish witchhunter that he better drop that thing like a hot potato if he doesn’t want to be the ridicule of the scientific community.
I can’t verify what is posted on his site and neither can anybody who does not have access to the original data files.
I know that having a high HCT does not mean that you will be fast because mine has tested as high as 48.5, and I am definitely a MOP racer.
It is not the high HCT *per se *an advantage.
If you are good enough to win a U-21 National Championship in a country with a cycling tradition, with a 38.5 HCT, it is obvious what performance improvement you would have racing in the Pro Tour if your HTC goes up to 48.5 HCT.
Riders that are already competitive with a “low” HCT have a lot more to gain than riders with a naturally high (say 48.5 HCT) when they increase their HCT close to 50.
I dream that one of these days ALL pro riders meet in a big private room and they agree on a gentlemen’s pledge to quit doping all at the same time. The main problem in cycling is that everyone thinks that everyone else is doping. This creates a vicious circle and a never ending problem. Said that, I still think that some Pro Tour riders do not dope.
Doping is the real cancer of the peloton.
Sergio
does this ever get old?
It’s pretty clear from the information given on cyclingnews.com that his HCT increased the expected amount from 1 unit of PRC (packed red cells) on both rest days. While the reticulocyte count is lower expected. My second year medical students can make this diagnosis. People can debate all they want, but these are not normal trends. Not much to debate here if you know anything about physiology. As his levels showed in the Giro, he does drop with stress of competition. There is nothing special about his physiology.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/...blood-levels-debated
I mostly like this because I mostly think Armstrong is one of the biggest hemofreak in cycling.
I hope he is not doping and that he is just a one in a million physiological freak. If he is doping, I hope he gets caught.
Sergio
Yes, if he was doping, they I do most certainly do hope he does get caught… because really, the fundamental question I have with any recent allegations of doping with Lance is really, how stupid would he have to be?
Think about it, if there is ANYONE on the tour who is going to get scrutinized at every possible opportunity it’s Armstrong. If you follow him on Twitter he is barraged constantly by anti-doping control. He has proclaimed that he has come back for the love of the sport and the promotion of a cause, not because he absolutely needs to be the best.
In the end, what does he possibly have to gain by doping when he has so much obvious to lose? He’d have to be either the most arrogant AND biggest idiot on the tour.
Lance was third, have Contador's numbers been published?
Was a nothing review by those Danish doctors as they were comparing LA’s results to a study they did of 7 riders during the 2007 TDF. 7 riders out of about 200 in that one year…don’t know if that is a truly consistent representative sample.
That said all they would say was that certain results weren’t what they would have ‘expected’.
Throw mud, some sticks…not what I would expect from supposed professionals in their field.
“Do you not realize I have had diarrhea since Easters?”
Senor Ramon from Nacho Libre
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