How many folks actually pull on the bars with their arms when riding hard on the bike?
I don’t and am told this is silly not to. Seriously
How many folks actually pull on the bars with their arms when riding hard on the bike?
I don’t and am told this is silly not to. Seriously
I don’t, but then I don’t ride very hard compared to real athletes.
but then I also did 500 watts for a while without hands as an experiment to see what the hell people were talking about with ‘leverage’
I didn’t figure it out. I would think it optimal to do nothing with your arms.
I do, but only when I’m desperate to generate the watts needed to maintain speed. It’s a bad sign because it means my form is going to shit, but a good sign because it means the TT is almost over.
I do it for short periods of time when powering through a section of a course or when doing FTP intervals.
For short course racing I do it a lot, probably 70% of the time.
jaretj
That’s where I am to, but this is what someone of authority told me, a very reputable individual and I really value his insight.
“Not using your upper body to build power is dumb, why drag it around and not put it to work. Every pro rider uses their upper body when doing TT’s just watch some video’s.”
I may need to rethink that, hence looking for more thoughts on the topic. Time to experiment more
I am often less than 140 lbs so I don’t have the weight to put on the pedals like someone that is 40lbs heavier than me.
jaretj
that just doesn’t make any sense. unless you have to use your arms to keep your ass on the seat.
That’s where I am to, but this is what someone of authority told me, a very reputable individual and I really value his insight.
“Not using your upper body to build power is dumb, why drag it around and not put it to work. Every pro rider uses their upper body when doing TT’s just watch some video’s.”
I may need to rethink that, hence looking for more thoughts on the topic. Time to experiment more
That’s where I am to, but this is what someone of authority told me, a very reputable individual and I really value his insight.
“Not using your upper body to build power is dumb, why drag it around and not put it to work. Every pro rider uses their upper body when doing TT’s just watch some video’s.”
I may need to rethink that, hence looking for more thoughts on the topic. Time to experiment more
Next time there is a 200km “breakaway” at the TdF, watch how much the lead riders are pulling on their bars. They’re putting out 250-300w and much of the time they’re resting their arms on their bars.
Generating 300-400w takes very little strength, so pulling on the bars doesn’t really matter.
but doesn’t that get into long endurance type riding, not the same as going all out for 20min-1hour.
i know in a sprint or a hard climb out of the saddle that I pull on the bars(some folks don’t, the ones that look like they are jumping over their toptube from side to side as bike remains perfectly upright)
where is the cut off point? I realize one does not TT standing up as per my two examples above.
but doesn’t that get into long endurance type riding, not the same as going all out for 20min-1hour.
I would wager they are doing the same watts per kg as you would for 20min
I think we have it right man. your arms can’t actually put power to the pedals, so until you need them to keep your ass on the seat, don’t use em.
I suppose they are doing close to 5w/kg for a few hours, but I am not yet sold one way or the other.
remember, I said I don’t currently do active pulling to stabilize myself for power output while TTing. I know I used to, ie hit a big enough bump with bars not sufficiently tight and end up pulling them up
but doesn’t that get into long endurance type riding, not the same as going all out for 20min-1hour.
i know in a sprint or a hard climb out of the saddle that I pull on the bars(some folks don’t, the ones that look like they are jumping over their toptube from side to side as bike remains perfectly upright)
where is the cut off point? I realize one does not TT standing up as per my two examples above.
When one of those guys (like Jackie Durand) is soloing off the front at 26+mph on his road bike, he’s probably putting out 300w, and he’ll sit there with his forearms resting on the tops of his bars. His upper body is totally unconnected to the power he’s putting into the pedals. In a sprint, the power might be triple that wattage, so some leverage for a short period of time is useful, but it’s likely too expensive (oxygen used vs. power gained) to do for very long.
right, but it is still not the power he will put out in a TT.
for tri applications, I completely agree.
who would be considered the gurus in this area, pro TTing?
just try to imagine the physics of it. how can pulling up on the bars make more power go to the pedals?
all it can do is reduce the amount of buffering of waste material your arms can do, and burn up precious oxygen
look at fabian when he soloed away in 2010 in the classics
hands hanging in the air, elbows on base bar.
I suppose they are doing close to 5w/kg for a few hours, but I am not yet sold one way or the other.
remember, I said I don’t currently do active pulling to stabilize myself for power output while TTing. I know I used to, ie hit a big enough bump with bars not sufficiently tight and end up pulling them up
whoever has been working with tony martin!
carl spackler and dave luscan would be good resources also
right, but it is still not the power he will put out in a TT.
for tri applications, I completely agree.
who would be considered the gurus in this area, pro TTing?
How many folks actually pull on the bars with their arms when riding hard on the bike?
I don’t and am told this is silly not to. Seriously
I don’t necessarily actively “pull” on my bars when in the aero position to increase power…however, to “punch” over small rises and such, I will pull my body slightly forward to the point that I’m barely contacting the saddle (an Adamo). This is almost akin to standing on the pedals (i.e. much opened thigh/torso angle), but without getting out of the aero bars.
Perhaps this sort of thing is what people are confusing with “pulling on the bars”? Or, perhaps their positions are too “constricted” and they naturally are trying to open their thigh/torso angle all the time?
When going hard for extended periods, either on the TT bike or the road bike, my upper body is VERY relaxed…in fact, my preferred “hammering” position on the road bike is with my hands on the hoods and forearms resting on the bar right behind the hood and parallel to the ground. That’s the position I try to mimic in my TT position, but rotated slightly forward about the BB, and with aero bars under my arms.
it was stated in reference to helping build power, so maybe that is the context it was meant.
I’ll occasionally push against the bars in a tt if I’m grinding something out or pull when out of the saddle but these aren’t things one would do on a consistent basis.
How many folks actually pull on the bars with their arms when riding hard on the bike?
I don’t and am told this is silly not to. Seriously
I don’t necessarily actively “pull” on my bars when in the aero position to increase power…however, to “punch” over small rises and such, I will pull my body slightly forward to the point that I’m barely contacting the saddle (an Adamo). This is almost akin to standing on the pedals (i.e. much opened thigh/torso angle), but without getting out of the aero bars.
Perhaps this sort of thing is what people are confusing with “pulling on the bars”? Or, perhaps their positions are too “constricted” and they naturally are trying to open their thigh/torso angle all the time?
When going hard for extended periods, either on the TT bike or the road bike, my upper body is VERY relaxed…in fact, my preferred “hammering” position on the road bike is with my hands on the hoods and forearms resting on the bar right behind the hood and parallel to the ground. That’s the position I try to mimic in my TT position, but rotated slightly forward about the BB, and with aero bars under my arms.
I’m with Tom here…if I am going over a roller, or a section of false flat, I’ll adjust my hand back slightly to the “S” bend, lock in my arms and “pull” back to increase my leverage / power over that section. Once over it, I am back to my relaxed upper body position.
I can’t imagine doing ot for a whole bike leg, even a Sprint. But for short “punches”…absolutely.
when watching someone like Martin TT, there is a lot of back movement, way up toward the head even, and many pro TTers look to be moving upperbody from side to side when riding. what causes this?