Argueing With Buddies

Triathlon Forum
1

Battlin’ a bit of insomnia, so I figured I’d type and bit and hope the PC screen tires the eyes some.

Quite an eventful day for myself and others, which ended with an apologetic post in a thread characterized by over-reactions, brought on by a good post asking “what’s your deal?” The apologetic post was more for those who share beliefs with me (namely Christians, and to a lesser degree Libertarians), so they would not be lumped in the same group with the loudmouth.

I realize I jumped in here (this forum) with both feet hitting the ground at a full sprint and never introduced myself. So, this post is more of a selfish, entertainment nature, so those interested can see “what my deal is” and where I come from. If you’re not curious save yourself the boredom and click “back” on your browser now.

You all have seen me and my friends before. Maybe not the exact same people, but the same type. I come from a competitive athletic background, and more recently a strength training background, which both share many of the same cultural attributes … rough language, sarcastic comments, loud tones, and plenty of posing violence. It was a natural transition for me, as many folks involved in St were former college athletes.

You’ve also seen my “debates” … or at least reasonable imitations in real life or movies. Think, Bull Durham (or better yet, White Men Can’t Jump) for quick reference. “You wanna step outside?” “Yeah, I’ll step outside”. That kind of stuff that people tolerate in athletes, where many lose it shortly after puberty.

While argueing about really important stuff … I mean really important stuff like the best cereal, boobs vs. butt, how great Favre would be with good receivers … y’know stuff the world hinges on, there is certain banter that occurs. Phrases such as “you are so full of s—” and “what a whiny p---- you are” yelled at high tones followed by “you want me to come over there and put my foot …” are common, interpreted for what they really mean, and are generally accepted. To an outsider this might look like a fight is breaking out, but to those involved it’s par for the course.

In the course of the arguement, the best infromation is almost secondary to who comes up with the best insults, gets the most laughs, and makes the funniest personal threats. Sure, a punch may be launched at an arm or a chest, and even a slap here and there, but it’s all received as part of the arguement (primitive, huh?). As long as there is not generous amounts of alcohol involved, all is taken in stride, and personal feelings are never trampled on regardless of what comments are said. The locker room mentality is certainly different than real-life. In the end after testosterone levels have normalized to that of a grizzly bear, it all ends the same way “See ya tomorrow bro’”, and the cycle repeats.

When I first came here, I started lurking in the “hero: Jessica Lynch” thread, as well as the Iraq War threads, in between finding some really useful training info. I recognized the banter as being something I was familiar with. Strong opinions, loud tones, etc … and I jumped right in.

Metaphorically, I was the guy that walks into a party, joins a conversation, and starts right in without a “Hey, how are ya?”, “What’s Up? I’m Ryan …” or anything like that. People are looking around going “Who’s this dude?” … or more literally “What’s this guy’s problem”. So, any confusion or whatever the proper term for it would be is my fault for not first introducing myself and explaining where I’m coming from.

As I said before, I’m writing this for selfish reasons. To my buddies, triathloning is “You mean cardio stuff?” and I must say right now, I feel like the proverbial fish out of water. As I told jaylew in a private message, I feel like the guy who’s been told he has a booger showing AFTER he’s talked to all the pretty girls. I’m making an attempt to fit into a new crowd, for which I want membership for decades to come.

So, to get right down to it, I gotta ask, can anyone relate to anything I’ve said in this post? Obviously my background isn’t going to mesh with all types, but I certainly don’t wanna be the guy that “doesn’t play well with others”. I’ll make the necessary adjustments to my manner of speaking in an informal setting, and folks (after reading this) hopefully won’t take everything I say literally. Obviously, I’m not going to apologize for who/what I am, but I can certainly make modifications that make it/me more tolerable. wink

Sorry for the length (once again), but I’m trying not to burn very many bridges, b/c as I mentioned before, I’m going to be leaning on you guys for valuable racing/training info as that time approaches … and truth be told, I enjoy the conversation. This post is about as sincere as I can get.

Later. RyanB.

2

Hey Ryan,

I can appreciate your sincerity. I’ll have to go over and read that other thread now to see what you are talking about. I have been “that guy” that you refer to more than I really want to admit so I know where you are coming from. From one insomniac to another - cheers!

4

You’ll know you’re ‘in’ when someone jumps on you for your spelling of ‘argueing’ !! It’s ‘arguing’, the ‘e’ gets dropped.

See, what did I tell you?

Cheers, and welcome

Barry

5

Relax already, you’re in.

The bathroom’s down the hall, the keg is in the corner, and the pool table is in the basement. And keep the music down after 11 p.m!

Now shut up and go for a run.

– Big EE

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It is interesting to see the dynamics of this forum at work. Triathletes as a whole are obsessive, performance oriented and strong willed – we have to be; look at what we do for “fun.” So when a large group of these kinds of people from all over the world convene on an online forum, lots of things can happen. And we have seen that time and time again.

I have often found myself intimidated by this forum. I am not very knowledgeable about triathlon. I’m slow. I don’t have the money to have a super nice expensive aero rocketship of a bike and/or travel to all the exotic races. I still can’t figure out bike fit. I think aero frames are overrated. I don’t care about PowerCranks. The stagger rule doesn’t bother me – I don’t race under those rules, and what do I care if the pros are drafting or not?

I have been offended many times here. So much in fact that I don’t read the political posts anymore. I also have been offended by some of the language and subject matter used by other posters. However, this is an Internet forum, and we do have the right to say what we want to, whether others agree or not. Interestingly, Tibbs’ “sex with goats” comment didn’t bother me at all, primarily because I knew it was a joke. A sick joke maybe, but a joke nonetheless. Also, Tibbs’ thread about dispatching with his family for a bike didn’t bother me, either. Again, I knew it was a joke. I think that thread was more of a satire about how much we love our bikes, and the lengths to which we go to fund our triathlon habit. Nobody in their right mind would equate the loss of a bike with the loss of a family member, and nobody would do away with their family for a bike. Some may argue that Tibbs isn’t in his right mind, but I’ve had some private conversations with him, and he’s pretty sharp. He’s a good guy. (Sorry for blowing your cover, Mr. Tibbs.)

In the end, I think we all play pretty well with each other. I am a white southern male. My politics are conservative and my religious beliefs are evangelical Christian. That puts me at odds with many on the forum. And there are quite a few people with whom I disagree vehemently on non-triathlon related subjects. In fact, one or two have made me fighting mad from time to time. But I (and we) have to keep everything in perspective, and we must agree to disagree on many things. We are a diverse group, and we all bring different life experiences to the table. The threads about the loss of family members/friends struck chords in some that it didn’t in others. The political/religious threads do the same thing. But what brings us all here is a love for swimming, biking and running. If we keep that in perspective, I think we’ll be fine.

The slowtwitch community is a vibrant, though at times volatile, one. But that’s what keeps it interesting, and it keeps things fresh. That’s why we all come back. I’ve been scolded many times, some quite harshly, on the forum. But I come back. It’s almost like I have to. I’m drawn here. At the same time, I’ve come across some incredibly nice people who have helped me more than I can ever express – people like the bunnyman (he’s still king no matter what he says) and Francois. And I think Empfield should run for president. I’d vote for him in a heartbeat.

At any rate, I don’t know what the point of this post is, either. Except to say that sometimes we step (or stomp) on each other’s toes. But like triathlon and training, we need to keep everything in perspective. Agree to disagree on some things, agree on others, and remember that we all come from different backgrounds, experiences, nations, ethnicities, religions, etc.

We also need to remember not to take stuff posted here personally. This is just a discussion forum. We exchange ideas, dole out advice and maybe argue a bit, but it’s nothing personal. If we keep that in mind, we’ll all play together quite nicely for a long time to come.

RP

9

“Dude! I’m trying to be the bad boy.”

I’m sorry. I’ll play along.

You’re a jerk. Tell the truth about the goat story. You tried, but the goat turned you down. You’re so bad a goat wouldn’t even have sex with you. Why don’t you take your bike and go home? Nobody likes you here anymore.

How 'bout that?

10

“You tried, but the goat turned you down”

OMG at first I thought it said “You tried, but the goat turned you around”
.

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Being an ex-college football player I can definitely relate to what you’re saying. I told you we could probably be friends.

I really only have one friend I stay in contact with from those days and whenever we’re together we fall into the same pattern. It’s like we’ve rediscovered cursing and the art of the clever putdown. I don’t realize how little I actually curse on a regular basis until I’m around him.

I’ve dragged him into the triathlon game so I thankfully don’t catch hell about my skimpy outfits anymore(at least from him).

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Your social and political views are close enough to my own (I also identify myself as libertarian) that I can see you as something of a kindred spirit. My personal style, however, is much more mild-mannered and cautious than yours, both in person and in forums. Your brasher style has its advantages: if nothing else, it attracts more attention. If you want to polish it a little bit, you might consider carefully rereading your posts before you hit the button, checking not only for spelling and grammar but also for the best choice of words, accurately reflecting your thoughts and feelings. Others may find that unnecessarily fastidious, but you obviously have the intelligence and education to write well, so why not use it? I do admire your forthright approach, though, even if I’m a lot less combative myself.

13

Not that this is life/death stuff, but we’re just flapping the gums, right?

As an ex-athlete, I finding it difficult to deal with 2 things …

  1. Replacing the competitive event.

I tried men’s softball, YMCA basketball, etc … but it just seems so “anti-climatic” coming from college sports where a (D3) national championship was always the goal. Regardless of how that sounds, I’m having trouble replacing the immense pressure and do-die conflict that I loved for years. Triathlon training only does so much.

I’m 30, in the best shape of life, and desperately want my physicality, and testicular fortitude tested. I almost need that to exist. I know that sounds strange (or maybe not to a bunch of triathletes)

It’s weird, one day I was an athlete trying to win a ring. We lost 5-2 at regionals. And practically the next day I was “Mr.B”. I wasn’t prepared for that.

  1. Replacing the closeness between like-minded people.

I’m friendly, and get along really well with almost everyone … but not in the same way as teammates get along (as jaylew said). I mean every meeting is like a return to 6th grade (a good thing, IMO). I’ll go years without seeing friends, and when we meet, it’s like it’s only been a day since we last saw each other. It’s not like that with “other people”. There are very few people “like me” in my career field. Not many ex-athletes want to be science teachers. So, the folks I work with are nice people, but their hobbies/interest are night/day from mine.

I guess it doesn’t usually bother me b/c I’m busy with work, training, cooking, preparing, etc to even notice. But the fe days I was home w/ my son as his nose was healing … it bothered me.

I rarely drink, don’t go out late, spend most of my off time with my 2 favorite things, my son and wife, and I’m wonderfully happy with that. But, a part of me still likes the back and forth primitive, growling, big forehead, protruding lower jaw, knuckle dragging, chest beating, man to man, idiotfest.

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What happens in the locker stays in the locker room. How true is that. Ice hockey players have gotta be the wierdest bunch of people on earth. There is something about team sports that ties people together unlike anything else. We have so much of that idiot banter when we get together. Even if it is once in a blue moon.

You think you have nothing in common with other teachers, try going from a contact ice hockey to a bunch of Computer Science techies. Wow talk about wierd.

A group from my church I hang out with, guys and girls (more girls than guys), like to fire off insults like my teammates and I like to when we’re together. Let me say, when the girls in the group get started find somewhere to hide, its no holds bar when the get rolling.

16

LOL.

Here’s a perfect example of how it goes. Myself and my 2 best buddies regularly hit the clubs. Anyway, one night we see one of my buddy’s girlfriends all over another guy. He was crushed.

My other buddy tells him, “Didn’t I tell you she was a slutty bitch? Man, you need to pull your head out of your ass.”

Translation: We’ve been good friends for a long time, and I tried to warn you that the relationship might end up this way. I wish you would listen to advice from others so that you could avoid the pain the feel right now."

It certainly is weird the way we speak to one another. There are so many unwritten rules that are just understood. It never really occurred to me that there was “another way to exist”. Sure, I knew other people acted differently than we did. But, I never realized the magnitude. Too often I find adult conversation to be really boring. Maybe I’m not alone in that regard.

I’ve got a buddy in KC that I talk to on the weekend. Man, we seem to pick up right where we leave off. Strangely, much of the conversation will end up talking about taking dumps or the infamous “mystery wipe” and similar stories heard from other friends. We usually have to put the phone down a few times and catch our breath. Sometimes it sure is fun to never get out of third grade (to the ladies reading this … I’ve heard women talk to other women … you’re slightly higher than this … like maybe 5th/6th grade.)

Me and this guy used to argue for 30 minutes about Madden on XBox and how he always picks my team (85 Bears) or Michael Vick. We have the same argument, every time.

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When I lived in KC I started out doing data entry work (later became a deprtment super.) at the company my wife was an accountant at. So, i was with goofy people all the time. I was going to college, so i was able to slip in with the athletes (even though my playing days were over), I was student teaching in HS (coaching too), and on weekends I worked the counter at a gym (i.e. testosterone central). yeah … I was in heaven … not getting much sleep … but having a blast.

Then, I move back to Illinois (3 years ago), left behind many good friends, and move to my wife’s hometown (it worked out b/c I got a job in no time, and we found a good buy on a house). But, there’s very few people in my age group here. I hang out with my brother in laws, but they drink and smoke quite a bit (they’re Irish … so they have to), which doesn’t do me a whole lot of good with training. I get along great with the coaches at school, but they coach all the time. I quit coaching b/c I have young kids and prefer to spend time with them.

We are looking tinto the SW … Tucson maybe. We have good friends in Lake Havasu, and if I’m going to give up “friends”, then dammit I’m gonna be playing with my kids outside every day (and riding and running too).

So, essentially, the internet provides “at my convenience” conversation. I can make a post here, go do something else, check back, make another post, go do something else, etc.

Good Garsh, someone stop me … before I run out and buy a diary.

20

I’ve never been more offended in my life.

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TripleThreat, it is very hard to get over losing that camaraderie. I spent 6 years in the NAvy (4 on a ship) and when you go out to sea 29 out of 49 months, you get real close to friends (this was before women allowed on board) and have that same type of relationship. I still talk to some of them and have never had that close a friendship since other than my family. It was very interested reading this thread. I always thought I just needed to grow up and have more civil friendships. I went to my 20 year reunion last fall and fell into that banter with my closer friends from back there and had a blast! I don’g have to grow up! Just be responsible enough to care for my family :slight_smile:

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There are two things I do not have a choice on …

  1. Growing Up (no hope)

  2. Taking care of my family. I’ve been groomed to be a father/husband my whole life. My dad had an abset/crappy father, and he wanted to be certain that it didn’t start a pattern.

As I said earlier, I certainly wouldn’t trade my high-quality family life for the old beer-guzzling, skirt-chasing, acting-idiotic, days … but having a “stupid day” here and there (minus the skirt chasing) would be good for me. I should take it upon myself to go make some new friends and stop using time as a limiting factor.

25

Basic observation I’ve made in life is that (in general) women bond by trying on each other’s shoes. Men bond by insulting each other. Personally, I’ve never gotten along with the shoe-swapping females which is probably why I love the sport of triathlon and the female-types that are associated with it. Not you’re average fluff bunnies. If you’re talking running shoes or cycling shoes…now you’re in my world.

26

Not trying to change the subject of the thread, but I’m reminded of a comedian’s comments regarding men vs. women (or at least a difference between the two).

If a woman at a party sees another woman wearing the same outfit, they become mortal enemies.

If a man at a party sees another man wearing the same outfit, they become best friends.

At a company party, my buddies and I (the husbands of employees) all wore the same thing … light blue Ralph lauren long-sleeved button-up shirt and tan Slates. Of course we heard every joke in the book. what’s more coincidental (not ironic) is that we were all basically the same size 6’3, 6’3, and 6’5 (Big Ed had some height on us).

After awhile we just said just replied “Government Issued” (in regards to our outfit).

seems like every guy I know has that same light plue Ralph lauren shirt and tan khakis.