Just how much better are Zipp’s 404 compared to Hed’s Jet 50 or the Stinger 50 (all carbon)? There is a huge price difference.
They cost more so very much better;-)
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I would think the 404 compares to the Stinger 60 or Jet 60, not the 50. I think the 60 would be as faster as the 404 and the 50 would be slower, but I am not an expert by any means :).
zipps better than heds? possibly - but you’ll gain more aerodynamically from tucking in your fingers around the shifters or getting a haircut the night before a race.
don’t get caught up in the marketing drivel. Yes - $800+ wheels with deep rims are faster than $200 box rims.
I don’t think any fair or modern tests have ever compared the two. I wonder how their weights compare though ? I never see any data of Hed weights…
The most modern comparison I found was on a nytro.com about aerodynamics and wheels. They seem to bunch a couple different wheels together and post similar time savings for them. Here is the chart they included.
** 40K Savings** Ironman Savings
Front
Xlab / Hed Alps / Zipp 404 64s 4m 48s
HED 3 spoke / Zipp 808 82s 6m 9s
Rear
Xlab / Hed Alps / Zipp 404 38s 2m 51s
HED 3 spoke / Zipp 808 49s 3m 40s
Disk 58s 4m 21s
The thing is that a HED carbon wheelset costs about $1K. The same Zipp wheelset costs about $2K. I’ve always ridden box rims, except for my rear disc, but have been really really tempted to “improve” my wheelset. On ST, Zipp is king, but I can’t seem to find ANY difference in quality between Hed and Zipp, so I am trying to figure out what it is that everyone seems to know.
I’ve had both Zipp and Hed wheels and loved both. Both are great and if money is no concern I would get Zipp. How ever, money is a concern, or at least it is to my wife and daughter :). Almost all aero wheels are fast, and they are all within a handful of seconds (at most) over a 40k course. Don’t agonize over this too much. They all great wheels and are all fast. Just get what you can afford and what you are comfortable with.
That’s just the thing. No one really knows the difference between the two and no one can account for the massive price difference between two wheel manufactures who make similar wheels. Both Zipp and HED shape their rims and both have released ceramic hubs they stand behind. If you go on HED’s website you can look at the results they gather on their wheels at different angles. Zipp does not provide similar information and there haven’t been any head to head comparisons done that I’ve seen.
The only reason I can fathom for Zipps costing double is their public demand fueled by many high profile athletes using their wheels but HED has been around for a long time and they have a proven race record of their own.
It seems that the innovative edge that Zipp takes with dimples and such gives off the impression of a more “up in the face of aerodynamics” company.
Likewise, I’ve own both a set of HED 3’s and 808’s. They are both great wheels. The H3’s performed nicely. No problems. I was however a little cautious of the hubs. But I sold them to purchase 808’s and put a PT on them. I’m glad I did. Having them in hand the 808’s to me just looks like there’s a lot more attention to detail applied. The hubs are far superior in my opinion on the 808’s as well. I would venture to guess the majority that own HEDs wish they had the money to chunk down on zipps. I know I did when I had my Heds.
American manufacturing and labor cost more than Asian labor. Better hubs, dimpled rims, different shaped rims, etc. Zipp has a made a commitment to producing the fastest wheels possible no matter the cost. That can mean an extra second or two here or there and may not really matter to most of us. There are always reasons for the price difference in just about anything we buy. Whether or not it is worth it to the consumer is a question only they can answer. Both are great wheels and I think Zipp is the best, but there isn’t a real notice difference in my world.
I don’t know about the last statement. I do know (from personal experience) that it is hard to go from Zipp to Hed. I have gone from Zipp to Hed and back to Zipp. Now I am back to Hed and will be trying the Stingers in hope that they give me what I miss in my previous 404/808 set ups :).
I don’t see too many people going from Zipp to Hed- usually it’s the other way around :). Still, money is the main issue I am sure. At least it is for me. Having a set of 2000 race wheels that get used 4 times a year is a bit over kill.
I don’t understand your chart.
its on Nytro’s website, essentially there’s two groups: Xlab / Hed Alps / Zipp 404 and HED 3 spoke / Zipp 808
then they show time savings over a 40k first followed by ironman distance.
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The most modern comparison I found was on a nytro.com about aerodynamics and wheels. They seem to bunch a couple different wheels together and post similar time savings for them. Here is the chart they included.
40K Savings Ironman Savings
Front
Xlab / Hed Alps / Zipp 404 64s 4m 48s
HED 3 spoke / Zipp 808 82s 6m 9s
Rear
Xlab / Hed Alps / Zipp 404 38s 2m 51s
HED 3 spoke / Zipp 808 49s 3m 40s
Disk 58s 4m 21s
You have totally misread Nytro website. They just did an average comparision of a type of wheels and not the actual comparision of individual wheels.
Marketing my man! Zipps for those who are a slave to marketing.
I don’t think it was mis-read.
Nytro is saying that the Xlab, alps (stingers?), and zipp 404 are close enough to be grouped together. The OP is asking whether there is a significant difference between them and Nytro is saying no, but there is a difference between those and the h3/zipp 808
Based on what data do you make this claim?
Marketing my man! Zipps for those who are a slave to marketing.
Lack of data. There is just no proof that Zipps are so incredibly fast that people should throw down the extra cash. I support the right of the people to pay more for stickers to look cool or feel they are getting an edge. I give a big hooray for Zipp getting their money. I just don’t see the data.
There does seem to be some data that suggests zips are a wee bit quicker than other brands.
If $2000 is meaningless to you, might as well be a wee bit quicker.