The first step in correcting a problem is admitting you have a problem.
The answer is yes, you are, in all likelihood, cissexist.
:rollyeyes:
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What problem?
Isn’t there a better eye roll emoji than that? 
I have no doubt he believes this (what he says in the video) to be true. I’m curious how far off the mark his thinking is among those in the trans community, though. I read a column recently that argued that trans persons should feel no obligation whatsoever to disclose their status to people they date, or would like to date, and to expect that they should is itself transphobic. The point was later tepidly defended by a close friend (lesbian with several trans friends). This is only slightly further down the continuum of crazy from that position, really. Neither arguments do much toward fostering acceptance of transgender persons in the general sense, IMO.
What, in your view, constitutes an appropriate degree of acceptance of transgender persons?
That’s a good question. A hard one to answer, specifically. It’s probably easier to identify things that aren’t reasonable expectations than it is to set clear boundaries as to what is, or are.
Naturally, I think my views, attitudes, and actions in this area, are appropriate. I would (do) call them by their preferred name. I wouldn’t exclude a trans person from my personal circle of friends or family or associations because of their trans status. I wouldn’t shield my children from their existence based on their trans status. I would argue that they should be allowed to marry the person of their preference. I would treat them with the same courtesy, respect, and dignity I afford everyone as a condition of their humanity, only to be revoked if their actions warrant it.
I do not think it’s a reasonable expectation to demand that other people contort their reality to fit the trans person’s view of it, and demand that they be called by whatever pronoun they feel suits them, or to insist that anything short of society identifying and treating them as no different from other members of their chosen gender (reference bathroom/shower facility usage, athletic competitions, etc.) properly defines “transphobia.” And I certainly wouldn’t consider applying the force of law to that agenda via hate crime/speech legislation to be a reasonable action, either.
That’s a general starting point, anyway.
What, in your view, constitutes an appropriate degree of acceptance of transgender persons?
My view is that they should be treated like anyone else. Not special, not protected, not picked on.
If you’re cool, you’re cool. If you’re a dick, you’re a dick.
Want to be protected from criticism? Fuck off.
Sphere mentioned the non-disclosure of being trans to prospective mates. This is just plain dishonesty. That’s a pretty big omission. It’s akin to not disclosing having kids or (as is the case with me) an addiction.
If a trans person wanted to live in my rental the info that they were trans would be unnecessary to disclose, but if I knew it wouldn’t really factor into my decision either way.
I guarantee you this, if I don’t like you it’s not becaue you’re trans.
This is just plain dishonesty. That’s a pretty big omission. It’s akin to not disclosing having kids or (as is the case with me) an addiction.
Huh. I hadn’t really thought about addiction-in-recovery as a mandatory disclosure, but I suppose that’s reasonable, too. And a healthy insight. Glad to hear it.
I do not think it’s a reasonable expectation to demand that other people contort their reality to fit the trans person’s view of it, and demand that they be called by whatever pronoun they feel suits them, or to insist that anything short of society identifying and treating them as no different from other members of their chosen gender (reference bathroom/shower facility usage, athletic competitions, etc.) properly defines “transphobia.” And I certainly wouldn’t consider applying the force of law to that agenda via hate crime/speech legislation to be a reasonable action, either.
That’s basically the entire transgender rights movement, though. You aren’t being asked merely to treat individuals with respect and common courtesy, you’re being asked to affirm that gender is different than biological sex, and that a person with a penis who identifies as a woman *actually is *a woman, because “woman” is a matter of gender, not sex.
(Side question: What’s your hangup on pronouns? You’ll call a man Jennifer if he wants, but not “her” or “she”?
This is just plain dishonesty. That’s a pretty big omission. It’s akin to not disclosing having kids or (as is the case with me) an addiction.
Huh. I hadn’t really thought about addiction-in-recovery as a mandatory disclosure, but I suppose that’s reasonable, too. And a healthy insight. Glad to hear it.
I wouldn’t go so far as to say “mandatory” (nothing is really mandatory, IMHO) but I would certainly be a little pissed to find out something so important about a person after developing a relationship.
Some people like to go out and party/drink (happy hour, etc.) and I would assume if that’s your thing you’d want a mate who also enjoys those things. I just wouldn’t be a good match for someone like that and there’s no point in wasting time. It doesn’t make me “drinkerphobic”. Mrs Duffy sometimes has wine with dinner and occasionally ties one on with a friend. That’s fine with me, but if she wanted to hit the bars every friday night it might be issue.
I would disclose it. It’s not difficult to let that cat out of the bag, actually.
I made it around 70 seconds in before my head started spinning trying to keep up with all the correct gender terms.
FFS, be attracted to whoever you want. Live you life, and don’t get all pissy if people don’t agree with you.
That’s basically the entire transgender rights movement, though. You aren’t being asked merely to treat individuals with respect and common courtesy, you’re being asked to affirm that gender is different than biological sex, and that a person with a penis who identifies as a woman *actually is *a woman, because “woman” is a matter of gender, not sex.
It does seem to have turned that corner over the last decade or so. That’s unfortunate. Acceptance (not just tolerance) of transgender individuals with equal rights as Americans should be an admirable goal, though merely increasing tolerance is a pretty good landing spot if your arrow misses the mark.
This is where I’ve argued before, with Dan in particular, that I can be “down with the transgender thing” without being down with the transgender political and social agenda. I accept them fully for who they are, as I do with everyone. I do not accept them as something they’re not, likewise.
(Side question: What’s your hangup on pronouns? You’ll call a man Jennifer if he wants, but not “her” or “she”?
A side question, but a central point in my perspective. Names aren’t distinctly or immutably male or female, for the most part; they can be changed legally without requiring that reality be reconfigured to allow for it. It’s symbolic of the entire argument over being versus being assigned at birth. I’m holding the line, here.
Acceptance (not just tolerance) of transgender individuals with equal rights as Americans should be an admirable goal,
I’m not sure I grasp your distinction between acceptance and tolerance.
And what rights as Americans are denied to transgender individuals?
A side question, but a central point in my perspective. Names aren’t distinctly or immutably male or female, for the most part; they can be changed legally without requiring that reality be reconfigured to allow for it. It’s symbolic of the entire argument over being versus being assigned at birth. I’m holding the line, here.
I see your point, but I think you’re kidding yourself. Names, for the most part, *are *distinctly male or female. Sure, there are people named Pat, or Sam, and it’s possible to name a boy Sue. But generally, names are gender specific. That’s exactly why Bruce calls himself Caitlyn now. If names weren’t identifiably male or female, he’d just stick with Bruce.
When would you disclose? Does it vary on the situation? E.g. Personally I’d certainly expect kids or a previous addiction to get mentioned fairly early in a relationship, but wouldn’t bother me if it didn’t come up in the first few dates/meetings as long as there wasn’t outright deception about it.
I think somebody either not being the biological gender I was expecting, or having changed biological gender (if I’m using the wrong vocabulary here it’s through ignorance, not intent) would be something I’d expect to be disclosed on the first meeting. I suspect it would be a much bigger deal breaker for most people in terms of having a romantic relationship than kids or an addiction would be.
I’m not sure I grasp your distinction between acceptance and tolerance.
It’s the difference between being welcomed somewhere versus merely not being chased out. Expand that to any number of scenarios in which transgender people have routinely struggled, and that’s the general idea. It’s really not a semantic point.
And what rights as Americans are denied to transgender individuals?** **
I’m not saying there are, presently, though the question of military service jumps to mind. Prior to SSM legalization, that could be seen as one. My point was that equal rights should be a perfectly fine end goal, and if they’re not there entirely, they’re pretty damn close, and the nonsense about people not calling them by their preferred pronoun constituting transphobia or hate speech goes well beyond what a reasonable agenda should entail.
I see your point, but I think you’re kidding yourself. Names, for the most part, are distinctly male or female. Sure, there are people named Pat, or Sam, and it’s possible to name a boy Sue. But generally, names are gender specific. That’s exactly why Bruce calls himself Caitlyn now. If names weren’t identifiably male or female, he’d just stick with Bruce. **
Names are legal designations based on what a parent or guardian chose for you, and can be legally and legitimately changed at the person’s insistence. Names are not who or what you objectively* are*. If you want to change your legal name, or nickname, to something that you feel is better representative of how you feel about yourself, I’m happy to oblige. It only requires me to recognize that you’ve chosen a different label for yourself. Asking me to refer to a he as a she, or vice versa, is putting a burden on me to expand or upend objective categories in the outside world, based on how someone feels about themselves. I think it’s entirely different to oblige one and not the other.
I think the target audience of this video is - and perhaps only- lesbian women.
I made it around 70 seconds in before my head started spinning trying to keep up with all the correct gender terms.
FFS, be attracted to whoever you want. Live you life, and don’t get all pissy if people don’t agree with you.
I agree with this. I used to care what people said, then I realized that it’s their issue, not mine so I usually let it go
Some people just like to use derogatory terms or wrong pronouns, so be it.
I agree with this. I used to care what people said, then I realized that it’s their issue, not mine so I usually let it go
Some people just like to use derogatory terms or wrong pronouns, so be it.
By “wrong pronouns,” you mean…?
When would you disclose? Does it vary on the situation? E.g. Personally I’d certainly expect kids or a previous addiction to get mentioned fairly early in a relationship, but wouldn’t bother me if it didn’t come up in the first few dates/meetings as long as there wasn’t outright deception about it.
I think somebody either not being the biological gender I was expecting, or having changed biological gender (if I’m using the wrong vocabulary here it’s through ignorance, not intent) would be something I’d expect to be disclosed on the first meeting.** I suspect it would be a much bigger deal breaker for most people in terms of having a romantic relationship than kids or an addiction would be**.
Most people are attracted to people of the opposite sex. I can still be attracted to a woman whether she has kids or a history of addiction. While those are concerns, they aren’t deal breakers. Having a dick, or having had one - that is definitely a deal breaker that should be disclosed at the beginning.
