I am not talking about the pros here. And this question mainly applies to ironman distance races. It just seems that far to many athletes struggle on the run. Is to much focus given to the bike? I mean, just look at the topics here on slowtwitch. It seems like 3 out of 4 posts are related to cycling. I know cycling is the “sexiest” of the 3 sports and the most money invested into, but being the fastest cyclist in the world is meaningless in an ironman if you cannot run worth a crap. Would people have more success / better times in ironmans if run training increased? I know running a marathon after biking 112 miles is tough but shouldn’t this be incentive to run more miles in training as to be better prepared?
I would probably lean towards athletes having no idea how to pace 112 miles on the bike. I was just riding my watts yesterday and I was being dropped on every hill-hammer fest. I was loving it. Lots and lots of people coming back to me late in the race…
Steady is the name of the game. But we all could use my run training, I’m sure.
It’s because a good amt. of people doing ironman dont do them to race. They do them to complete them.
I know 3 competitive athletes who bombed on the run at IM Canada due to running injuries. I think staying healthy enough to race a marathon at the end of an Ironman is no easy task, especially if you race year after year as some of these competitive types do.
bingo. I took the bike at IMC really easy and was passing people on Yellow Lake… and then hundreds more on the run. I could have easily taken 30min or so off my bike split but I have no idea how much it would have cost me on the run.
AP
Possibly - - but most have limited time and the bike offers more fitness bang for your buck and less injury risk - - I say this from experience.
That said, when I compare the IMoo run to the IMC run I think one huge difference is at IMC when you pass someone on the run you don’t see them again unless you pass them before the halfway mark (in which case you see them on the other side of the street headed the direction you just came from). At IMoo I thought it must be brutal to be hurting but on your second lap and be utterly surrounded by people who are walking and on their first lap. I think it really takes a mental toll on you when EVERYONE is walking around you. You almost have to run Moo with blinders on - - I decided yesterday that I hate what I saw of that run course so much that I’m never signing up for it.
I think it’s because the reality of how fast people should be biking the 112 miles is vastly different than what they actually do. Everyone and their brother thinks they’re a fast cyclist. A bunch of folks I know seem shocked when they slam out wicked fast bike splits and then can’t figure out why their run sucked. This is also usually coincided with, “My nutrition plan didn’t work. I just couldn’t take in calories on the bike.” Gee, could it be because they were going too hard on the bike? Of course not! LOL
Yes they are. They also tend to over estimate how fast they can ride, which doesn’t help in the long run. Most would probably do better if they ran more. It’s a balance of training mix, more run miles doesn’t necessarily = a better run split bc most people self sabotage during the bike leg. F*ck yourself during that 112 makes the next 26.2 go by much slower then it probably should have.
Funny. I did IMC in 2008 and had the exact same experience. I’m absolutely certain I could have gone faster on the bike…and if I did, I am absolutely certain I would have gone that times four slower on the run! I’m a pretty below average runner to begin with and I was passing people left and right on that marathon course…right out of transition no less!
Yes lots of people fail to pace the bike, I was concious of this going into my IM last year I had only done one year in the sport and did a 5:50 bike split which is nothing special but I kept my HR below 147 all bike (I can’t afford a powere meter so have to go with the basics) and I was able to run quite well. HAving said that I think that run training is under done.
People go on about specicifty on this palce all the time and then recommend that people run no more than 2 hours and get all their fittness on the bike when they are going to run 3:30 to 5 hours, and then everybody is surprised that the most common race report is slamming bike and fell apart on the run
LOL yeah it was a rewarding feeling that’s for sure… funny thing is I read an old post of JohnnyO’s about pacing the IMC bike course and took it to heart when I pre-rode the course a month prior to race day. It worked then, so I knew it would work come race day. Was really surprised at how many people hammer that bike course and how mediocre a cyclist I am 
AP
Yes lots of people fail to pace the bike, I was concious of this going into my IM last year I had only done one year in the sport and did a 5:50 bike split which is nothing special but I kept my HR below 147 all bike (I can’t afford a powere meter so have to go with the basics) and I was able to run quite well. HAving said that I think that run training is under done.
People go on about specicifty on this palce all the time and then recommend that people run no more than 2 hours and get all their fittness on the bike when they are going to run 3:30 to 5 hours, and then everybody is surprised that the most common race report is slamming bike and fell apart on the run
xwhatever.
I had a talk with a guy on another site who said he always placed top 3 in his AG on the bike, but always dogged the run. I convinced him to scale back the bike (he rode it at 80% RPE is what he said) and he smoked the run, ended up moving from MOP AG to 6/36 and 65/400+ oa.
John
Are you talking about the people who only do 1 IM, or those that fail to learn from experience…
I think many, many of the 1-timers - and alot of repeaters, myself included - neglect the mental aspect of running that marathon. Physically, all but a small percentage are physically capable… their brains make them walk, because it’s uncomfortable or whatever, and they can’t overcome that mental shut down…
I’m doing alot more mental prep work ahead of the next one… I lost alot of time walking, but was strangely able to sprint the last 1.5km to come in under my goal…
“I’m doing alot more mental prep work ahead of the next one…”
Such as??? I think this is an area I tend to be weak in. Interested to see what others use to overcome themselves.
chris
I think some people also like to pound their chest a little on how fast their bike split was. I have been known to do that in the past and now I define a decent triathlon for me as one with a decent run (another EN thing). It changed a lot for me and made me faster. It also makes the race much more pleasant when your not dying at the beginning of the run and in control.
It is one of the most difficult things to do - slow down on the bike - but probably the most important in a full IM. I finally figured that out for Half ironman distance and my runs are now only a few minutes more than my open half marathon runs and my HIM times have come down quite a bit.
In full ironman, it is more than 2x harder and 2x more important. I was speaking with some Saturday about IMLOU and she described that she was well inside the Kona slot line right after the bike. She crushed it. She then walked most half of the run and clearly didnt come close. She spoke as if she had it, but just messed up the run. It was the bike she clearly messed up.
It was my 2nd Ironman and I managed the bike much better. I went so slow at the beginning, it was almost embarrassing and I kept my heart rate way low the entire time. But, when I was crossing the finish line with a reasonable run split, I knew that is the right way to do it. Next time, I plan to go even slower on the bike and the beginning of the run and I know my times will come down.
I once heard someone say (probably on ST), that 80-90% of Age groupers go way too hard on the bike leg and I believe it.
I gotta chime in on the bike pacing too… Biking is typically my strongest leg; I’ve had the fastest bike split in one race before (a small sprint) and have rolled into T2 in the Top 10 several times before (sprint, Oly, and half). On the flip side, running is my weakest so I almost NEVER pass anyone in the run in a shorter Tri since all the slower runners are already behind me by then. My run training is/was probably way less than what you’d want for an IM/marathon, with my longest training run falling short of 2 hours, but it’s governed by a shaky injury history so my strategy was mostly a lot of biking and just try to make it to the start of the run with minimal wear and tear.
So IMC being my first go at the full distance (and being too cheap and curmugeonly to buy a powermeter), I spent the whole ride telling myself to chill out and not be a bike hero trying to chase a fast split time; that I still had 4-plus hours of running waiting for me in the heat of the afternoon. Result: I actually gave up more places than I gained on the bike for a change, but then for once I actually passed dozens, if not hundreds, of walkers on the run as I was able to run the whole way. My final bike split place was lower than my overall place, and only slightly better than my run split place. I knew I could have ridden substantially faster, but was mindful of the bigger picture and it worked out better than I realistically expected based on my limited run training.
Yes
It simply takes too much time for many if not most AG athletes to properly train for an IM.
It literally takes minimal training to be able to complete a 180k bike ride not totally spent.
To train for a marathon takes considerably more, never mind the fact that the marathon takes place after ~7 hours of exercise.
grossly
.
And does the fact that bikes are so expensive and sophisticated (so to speak) now a days make people believe that they are faster cyclists than they really are? I mean, who wants to be seen riding a $5000 bike and only average 16 or 17 mph? Maybe if we rode cheaper bikes that were not so “fast” looking that maybe we would ride within our abilities and have more left for the run?!
Also, why not ride less and run more in training? Instead of riding 250-350 miles a week and running 35 to 40, how about only biking 150-200 miles and running 55 to 60 miles (or more)?
do you think it might help if more people used Powercranks…