I’m seriously considering buying a used 911 in about 3-4 months, depending on a couple of personal circumstances.
Problem is, the more I read about them, the more confusing it gets. Does anybody here have a strong opinion about 996 ('98-'05) vs. 993 ('93-'98)? Apparently the 993 is considered a classic (last air-cooled) and resale values are clearly reflecting that. That said, the 996 has much more updated electronics, better A/C and the ability to not overheat in traffic, but a rather upsetting propensity to leak oil because of a serious engineering flaw in the crankcase, potentially necessitating an eventual engine replacement.
Neither of these are cheap, but I think it’s difficult to choose between a 7 yr old used car vs. a 2 yr old used car, if the younger one has a semi-serious engineering flaw, while the older one is a bit dated. And both of these models price about the same, amazingly enough.
Anybody? But hell if they’re not both gorgeous in their own way.
The best thing to do if you’re considering buying a car is to look up an enthusiast site for whatever model your thinking about. The people there are usually very familiar with any kind of modifications, quick fixes, and especially performance. As with all forums, seach a little before you go asking questions…you will get flamed if you dont take the time to find answers on your own
I’ve already been all over the web - that’s how I found out about the engine seal problem on late model 911s, and the surprisingly high resales on older 911s. The problem is that the more I look, the more complicated the question becomes.
The problem is that if you go looking for info on a problem on the web, you’ll get a lot of responses, but it will look like the car is doomed because you have no idea how often it doesn’t happen; i.e., selection bias to web responses. On the other hand, a leak problem which will likely lead to an engine replacement is not small matter, especially on a car this expensive in the first place.
The older cars are nice, but are somewhat lacking in some amenities, and being older, have issues related to age, and their own set of unique engine phenomena.
I’d really like to get into this car, but I guess if you dig around the web, every molehill looks like a mountain.
It’s funny that you asked about this since I’m in a very similar situation.
Frankly though, for me it has always been about the older models. The shape and the “nostalgia” factor of the air-cooled motor are what have done it for me. Having said that, the asking prices are a little outrageous.
Amenities don’t score very highly on my list since my impression of these cars has always been one of a relatively bare-boned sports car. In fact, the luxury and “softness” of the post-97 cars is what turns me off them.
One other thing you may want to contemplate is next year’s Cayman S. It’ll be priced between the Boxster and the 911 ranges and will probably outperform the Boxster S and will be a coupe like the base-model 911.
I get what you’re saying, but having never driven one, the air-cooled engine sort of scares me from an A/C and just overheating standpoint. My fears may be unfounded, but I need to read a little more. But yeah, the 993 resale values are amazing, and a search on the porsche site for preowned yields a pretty thin pool. If I go that route it will have to be a private owner with PPI, which is fine since Porsche doesn’t CPO 993s anyway.
As for amenities, I’m a little nervous about driving one of these without stability control. I’ve never driven a car so heavily rear-weighted, so I"m slightly concerned about how to find its limits, since I won’t be track-racing it, and the PSM gives me a little more comfort. That said, I get your drift with respect to amenities, but I live in NYC, so this would be my weekend car, and have no replacement, so I have to give some consideration to comfort.
As for the Cayman S, I don’t think I would go that route, no matter what the mags say, just because it’s not “Porsche” to me. It’s not a classic, at least not yet, and I guess I’ll just have to get used to the idea of used car risk if I want to go 911.
I’m just a little peeved at this 996 engine seal issue, and Porsche’s bad engineering, and somewhat casual attitude towards it. I’m trying to figure out if that is what is driving this resale issue, or whether it’s just that Porsche owners hate the front end that much, or just some love for the air-cooled.
I’d go with a restored 914-6. Powered by a 911 engine and most are restored with 911 brake/suspension parts, these mid-engined Porsches handle like they are on rails and have the 911’s power to boot. Owners of these will swear by them and are a blast to drive.
Style is not everyone’s cup of tea (or in Germany brewsky), but I think a nicely restored one is the only way to go for me in a Porsche. Plus, luggage space up front and back is a nice thing to have.
Funny hearing “993” referred to as a classic. I lived in Germany in the 80’s; in 1987 a 77 targa (first year bodies were fully galvanized) was $7300…flash forward to 2000 and I saw a green 1977 targa for $20,000. After seeing that 911 took 12-14 qts of oil I also realized they aren’t really air-cooled :)…Does the 996 take that much oil? 77’s had leaky engines too…had a case of oil (12 qts) in the back seat. I remember that you had a oil pressure guage, oil temp AND oil level guage…no dipstick or oil pan…you didn’t change the oil as much as cycle some of it out… the oil ran in two tubes over the fenders, under the doors to an oil cooler in the nose and back along the other side to the rear. I thought it was fascinating that a car produced for so many years had so many interesting ideas in it.
Sounds like you want the Cayman S. Answers all your worrys and truly is a “classic” Porsche. The 993 is the year they decided to get rid of the curves and make it as big as a trans-am…with the 996 they got rid of the air-cooled engine…but the real damage was already done with the 3000lb 993.
Actually a 993 gets around 30 mpg on the highway, but otherwise, I get your point.
But as it is not a daily driving car, it’s probably not a good comparison to let’s say, a Lincoln Navigator somebody drives 40 miles a day (and about 4 gallons a day).
Yeah, I’m being a baby about the unreliability, maintenance, etc.
But yes, the newer cars still take 11 quarts of oil, and still drink oil. Apparently anything less than 1 quart of oil for every 500 miles driven is considered pretty good.
I can’t really get my arms around a Cayman S. Sounds too much like a compromise and a little weenie to boot.
And like I said, I can’t get past this issue that the 995 has an eccentrically ground crankshaft bore, which will lead to an eventual seal failure, and probably an engine replacement. That seems to me unforgivable. Is it too much to ask for one of these cars which is reliable enough for daily driving, yet reasonably comfortable? Is there such a thing?
So if a 30 mpg car isn’t good enough, what is? Or do you object to standards at all?
Or is it only okay if you’re a Republican? I am a Democrat, but at least I’m admitting that wasting gas has geopolitical implications. If you want to deny it, that’s your business, but I don’t see how you sit around and accuse others of hypocrisy.
And given that I now use exclusively public transportation and have for quite a while, I’m the least of the problem.
My problem is that this would be my only car, although a car I would only drive on weekends, and keep in a garage where I wouldn’t have the space to tool or mod it, as many Porsche owners seem to.
So I need a certain level of reliability, because I don’t have the means to keep it as a pure toy.
Let me ask you, what were your experiences with the sensitivities of the old engines to traffic and ambient temperature?
Another 356 is the only Porsche that I’d ever want, but you definately wouldn’t want one as your only car.
I owned both in the mid 80’s when they were already 25 yrs old. The engines ran like swiss watches, especially compared to the finicky Triumphs and MG’s that I also owned.
Wish I had never sold them. Hope some day I’ll get another.
I already had my one go-round with (gulp) 1990 Miata, which was already 8 yrs old when I got it. Apart from basic interior deterioration, it had an indestructible engine, great mileage, spectacular transmission, absolutely perfect balance, and just terrific handling. Apart from the guy at the DMV telling me it was a girls car, it was great. Perfect car for grad school in LA. True story about the DMV guy.
The fact that I couldn’t even fit golf clubs in the car unless they rode shotgun was a minor inconvenience, but I’d like some luggage capacity this time around.
I drive a 1999 Kia Sophia. I get great gas milage because I have a tiny engine. I find nothing wrong with people driving what they want and there for if I was lucky enough to get that 385 hp Astin Martin I want I will feel no guilt.
You have been very harsh on Bush for declaring war for oil. Yet you get a car what is nothing more than a race car and if you think you will be getting that 30 mpg out of it you have a another think coming.
Why do you need a car if public transportation is working gerat for you? Is the soldiers lives worth that fun your going to have on the weekend? Don’t forget Bush lied people died for how many lives per gallon?
buy a copy of the used porsche buyers guide. You can find it on amazon. Pretty good breakdown of all the pluses and minuses of each year model and I think it covers through the early iteration of the 996. Just realize that these things break and that parts are a hell of a lot more expensive for a Porsche than for a Corvette (or any ‘run of the mill’ sports car).
OTOH it isn’t as bad as something like a Lamborghini where a clutch job alone is $10,000 and replacing a timing belt will run you a cool $7,000.
Porsche is getting much better in the reliability department too. The were ranked second overall in reliability this year (JD powers maybe or consumer reports…not sure which).
Personally when (not if) I buy a rocket, I am going with a Noble M12GTO or a GT3
Do yourself a favor and buy the car with the best service history …Porsche’s are like people they all have there little querks…
If you plan on driving one in rush hour traffic etc…get a water cooled…
If you plan on using it as a sunday driver/ go crusing car…911 sc turbo all the way!!!
Don’t base the car’s drivability on electronics …ie; stability control etc…if you think you really need it than don’t buy one of these cars or take a driving school to appriciate the design at least!!!
And yes your going to pay…servicing at a Porsche dealer isn’t cheap!!! Oh and tell your wife/girl friend to pack light if your going on a trip…lol…
the 996 (sure it is water cooled) is a great car that you can live with day to day. The Tiptronic version is great if you dont have any asperations of racing the car. I would assume that you are looking at a Turbo as the 2002-3 Turbos are selling cheap thanks to the new GT3 and what it is to the racers (about as fast as the Turbo, for $25k less and RWD).
The interior of the 996 is MUCH more livable for you and your wife. If you want to race, or if budget is a concern the 993 is a great car…the 993 costs less to race than a 996 that is for sure.
Oh…brakes…cant complain about the brakes on any Porsche…but the 996…WOW.
