Meaning, the swim, bike and run times are all about equal? If so, what are the distances? If a race was balanced, would anyone want to do?
Dave
No race that I know of - it would be an odd one though. Let us assume for a half IM - a MOP swim would be around 30 minutes give or take a few, but let us baseline using this assumption. So we have a 1.2 mile swim. Now if we assume a 22 mph pace on the bike - we would have an 11 mile bike - so short of most sprint distances. Say a run in the 7 min per mile pace and we get about a 4.5 mile run - somewhere between a sprint and an oly.
It would be interesting, if nothing else to get rid of the “swim doesn’t matter cause you can make it up on the bike and run” thoughts.
Edit: I meant to reply to another thread…
I would want to do it! But that’s pretty much just because my biking is slow 
That would be the whole point. One would really have to train for all THREE events. It would be great to also lower the wetsuit temp to like 72 or something. I know I would be much more interested in a race where all three events are equally weighed. I initially thought that was what Tris where when I started 10 years ago, but quickly found out that in non draft races, the swim really is nothing more than a warm up.
Dave
I think we ought to produce a grass roots race that experiments with this concept. Established races tend to be bound by tradition, which usually short-changes the swim and the run.
Equal/balanced in what measurement?
112mile swim, bike and run!!!
Good luck!
Jason, great question. My thoughts for balance is time which then drives the distance. So, my initial interest would be to take the Oly distance and start. So, if I take the bike distance as is, and use some average time, I would like try to see what distance the run would be for the same average time. I would then take this time, and try to come up with a distance for the swim, with and without the wet suit.
I know I have talked to the RD where I live about a balanced tri in the past. Since he is a former world class swimmer, he was very strong that tris do not place need for the swim.
So, if the above if fair, what would the base time for the Oly bike distance be, and then work backwards to run and swim distances.
Dave
“Equal/balanced in what measurement?”
I’m guessing equal in the time the average MOPer takes for each discipline. Perhaps an hour long swim (3-4K?), an hour long bike (20-25 miles?), and an hour long run (10-12K?). Of course people who are really good in one area may be ahead of the time frames, but it would make each discipline equally important to a certain extent.
Iwould like to see a race with the following:
2K swim, 30K bike, 10K run
The swim would be in the 27-35 min range for many; the bike in the 45-60 min range; the run in the 35-50 min range.
I doubt, though, that many RDs would go for this if they hope to make/raise much money as the longer swim tends to intimidate more than a few people who would otherwise enter.
I think a run=4x swim dist, bike=4x run distance would be reasonably balanced in terms of training and effort required if not actual event time. This would make a 2.5K Oly swim and app. 10K IM swim. Not something I would want to do but would be interested to see the results.
I don’t think time is a good measure since the range of times is so dramatic even in MOP and it would be extremely difficult if not impossible to manage a race based on time unless it was on a small looped course for each leg, which would be boring IMO. Even then you’d have a tough time tracking how far each person went in the alloted time.
A one hour continuous swim takes a LOT more energy than a one hour bike or run so I would argue those are not equal.
I think effort or energy expended would be a better measure to estimate the distances to try to equate the three legs.
Did not Dave Scott support something like this.
Dave
The races I did years ago (1985) in this format were 4 mile swim, 5o mile bike, and a 15 mile run.
Actually way wrong. A one hour continuous swim does not come close to 1 hour of race effort cycling or running in terms of energy used. My brother wrote his excercise physiology thesis on the subject of energy expenditure and the perception of effort. There is a perception that it is the case but that is due primarily to muscle physiology. As I understand it big lower body muscles use a lot of energy but at a lower rate per cell. There are just way more muscle cells in the legs and lower body. And before someone mentions that swimming is a whole body excercise, the energy expenditure of the lower body in swimming is far far less than cycling. I think he used swimming paces from 1:10 to 1:40, cycling speeds from 30-38 km/hr, nordic skiing, running 3:40-4:30 km/h, and something else. Those excercises were selected as they are easy to measure consistently. Running comes in between skiing and cycling and nordic skiing was slightly above cycling. It is interesting, especially the stuff about perception.
WOw, that would be much better balanced. How many folks did the race? How many where there? Did folks actually train for the swim at the same level as the bike and run?
Dave
There was a triathlon on the east coast of the US back in the 80’s that has this format. Can’t seem to recall the distances, but it was a longer race. Scott Molina won it a few times
I have always thought that it would be cool to have a race that would take roughly an hour for each leg for the top people - and obviously longer for others. So that would be a swim about what the IM swim is now about 4K, then a 40K or 25 mile bike and then a 10 mile or about 15K run. It would be REALLY interesting to have a number of the top triathletes have a go at this and see what would happen. As others have said, the swim is no longer a throw-away, the bike is lessoned quite a bit and the run being last would be very important.
Would love to do a distance like that. This is why the ITU O2 distance is more attractive to me, puts more weight on the swim.
Dave
I’ll be honest, personally, It’s never been that attractive to me as I have always been a so-so swimmer(57 min. IM best). However, I would be interested to see how many people I could track down with the longer run at the end.