I’m in the camp that believes in becoming a better swimmer by swimming a lot.
Anyone out there have any first hand experience to the contrary? Have you put in tons of yards and not gotten better?
Define slow and define high volume.
Hi Vitus,
I consider myself a non-swimmer, but I’ve made some improvements over the last few years. I tried to capture what’s helped me in an article called Swimming for non-swimmers. You can find it on my site using the link below.
Hope it helps, Mitch
Hoist on my own petard, huh?
Slow: Swimmers who can still realize improvements from TI. You know who you are.
High volume: Let’s say in the neighborhood of 15 to 20k per week.
Slow is slow, it’s related to time, not technique. So you haven’t answered my question, difficult to answer your initial question with limited context.
Slow is slow, it’s related to time, not technique. So you haven’t answered my question, difficult to answer your initial question with limited context.
I will ask it this way then - LSD type swim training…any benefit? It is an interesting question. I was talking with my running coach who is an Arthur Lydiard disciple…he posed a similar question to me asking “what if you mainly trained long and slow, for strength, then added intensity – real intensity to adapt the body to lactic acid only just before your competitions?”
Your thoughts?
Slow is slow, it’s related to time, not technique. So you haven’t answered my question, difficult to answer your initial question with limited context.
Ay. OK, substitute “poor” for slow. Or “unskilled.” Or “rocklike.” Or “duathlete.” Whatever. I’m wondering if there’s anyone out there who has honestly spent a lot of time in the water swimming who hasn’t seen much improvement.
Of course. A balanced training program needs to have different amounts of all training speeds in a way to provoke the desired adaptations.
In that case, I think there’s a frontier. If you have really poor skills, increased volume won’t teach you how to swim, it will just serve to reinforce the wrong neuromuscular patterns, making it really hard to learn the right way afterwards.
Of course. A balanced training program needs to have different amounts of all training speeds in a way to provoke the desired adaptations.
Agreed, but what I am asking is training LSD and only adding an intense workout maybe once every 10 days or so right up to a few weeks before competition. Then really hammer for a couple of weeks before the race. Just a “what if” question.
I disagree. I think that if you put the yards in, and you concentrate on what you’re doing, you will get better. You may develop some “bad” habits, and they might be a pain to correct later, but that’s just fine-tuning stuff.
But I’m willing to entertain contradictory first hand reports.
That doesn’t sound to me like a balanced training program. Remember that there aren’t either magical or forbidden training zones and that in order to achieve a peak performance you need to work all energy systems in an optimal way.
That doesn’t sound to me like a balanced training program. Remember that there aren’t either magical or forbidden training zones and that in order to achieve a peak performance you need to work all energy systems in an optimal way.
Dang! You mean all this time I thought I was getting better because I rubbed my “Genie” lamp I was wrong? 
In the past I spent years doing high volume slow swimming and did not get better. Specifically, I spent several years swimming over 1800 yards a day, 6 days a week, and stayed the exact same speed, which was very slow (50 minutes for a mile). After taking a swim conditioning course and improving my stroke, I was then able, within a couple months, to get the mile down below 30 minutes.
I have known adult swimmers who have spent years swimming 5 and even 6 days a week and kept the same form and the same speed.
So, I would say if you are slow because your form is bad, your form will not magically improve with the mileage and so neither will your pace.
If your form is good, possibly there is some hope.
I think that if you put the yards in, and you concentrate on what you’re doing, you will get better.
I think that idea is not necessarily accurate. When we see long-time swimmers who (1) are fast, and (2) have done lots of volume, we shouldn’t immediately leap to the conclusion that the volume *was the sole cause of *the fastness. High volume in junior swim programs weeds out the folks who don’t get the technique right. They can’t keep up; they can’t hit the intervals; they get spit out of the program. The key survivorship variable then is technique (and willpower/desire). The “survivors” of high-volume competitive swim programs have good technique, or they wouldn’t still be there. Certainly, the most-fast folks also do lots of training to move away from the rest of their teammates.
On the other hand, an AG swimmer that goes out and does big volume could very well end up not getting any faster. They can keep at it as long as they want, because there is no swim coach saying, “Son, you need to go out for football next season.” So, you’ve got to nail the technique, too.
It takes both to swim fast. In my case, I had the techniqued nailed when I first started tri training. After about 8 weeks in the pool (on 2500-3000 per week), I swam 28:15 and 27:11 in two half IMs. No fitness; good technique. From here, I have to do some harder, higher-volume training to get faster and to extend my swim fitness out to IM distance (and I am working on that right now).
LPage, thanks, that’s what I was asking about.
Next question: What kind of swimming background did you come from? Did you swim at all as a kid, or was it totally new to you?
When we see long-time swimmers who (1) are fast, and (2) have done lots of volume, we shouldn’t immediately leap to the conclusion that the volume was the sole cause of the fastness.
No, I agree. I think that most people who swim big yards do so because they’re already decent swimmers, or are making good progress.
On the other hand, an AG swimmer that goes out and does big volume could very well end up not getting any faster. . .So, you’ve got to nail the technique, too.
Yeah, I’m not discounting the importance of technique. My contention is that swimming big volume is the best way to develop technique. Not for everyone, clearly, but for a lot of people.
Gotta say I am ion your camp vitus979. The more I swim the faster I get. My limiting factor, as I am sure it is with most folks here is time. I would like to get more yards in but I only have an hour in the morning, I manage to get 4000+ yds in during that hour most days, and that is usually enough, but every now and then I like to push myself some and will drop an especially difficult “extra” set in, just to see where I am at.
Swim more, swim often, swim fast!
Vince
In the past I spent years doing high volume slow swimming and did not get better. Specifically, I spent several years swimming over 1800 yards a day, 6 days a week, and stayed the exact same speed, which was very slow
Don’t you improve running by doing speedwork? Don’t you improve cycling by doing speedwork? Why would it be different with swimming? I imagine that you built up pretty good endurance, however.
I don’t mean to sound like I know what I am talking about when it comes to any of these three things. I suck at all of them, especially swimming. But I have noticed improvement in each when I do speedwork in that discipline, i.e. intervals.
Just me.
I swim OW only cause there’s no pool handy. So, on Fridays, I do 2.2 miles continuous in around 1:10. On Mondays and Wednesdays, I do a total of 1 mile, I have a 300 yard course marked off. I do 1 300y warm up, then 4 300 yard intervals at 4:15-4:25, with 30 seconds rest in between. Then a 300 nice easy coold down. The warm-up is usually stroke drills. So, I swim train much like I run and bike train. Some LSD, some higher intensity work, and some drill work. Am I getting faster? Not so much faster, but my HR is coming down for the given pace and my stroke count for the given distance is coming down, so I’m feeling more effective in the water. I’m fast enough to have a decent race, but I come out of the water fresher, as a result of this plan than I did a year ago.