Oh c’mon, of course he was fast, he was a WR holder and won the OG 2x.
Don’t tell me you are a fan of the other thread where people basically are postulating who ever runs fastest the weekend before is the greatest of all time?
But all Bikila proves is that its possible to run fast barefoot, it certainly doesn’t prove its beneficial or a good idea.
from a USAT incident report form “Athlete presented to medical tent with a large laceration on the underside of left foot. Athlete reported running entire race barefoot…”
Yeah, the med staff actually put the elipsis in there. I hear it got infected and kinda ruined the rest of the guy’s season. Seems stupid to me.
Oh c’mon, of course he was fast, he was a WR holder and won the OG 2x.
Don’t tell me you are a fan of the other thread where people basically are postulating who ever runs fastest the weekend before is the greatest of all time?
But all Bikila proves is that its possible to run fast barefoot, it certainly doesn’t prove its beneficial or a good idea.
I like to counter misleading bullshit with opposing misleading bullshit.
It’s not about the shoes or lack there of, it’s about the engine.
That I can live with. I really can’t picture barefoot running lasting long. It may seem really cool when reading the book (which I enjoyed), but the actual doing it tends to suck.
Hahahah
I’m guessing the latter part should have been in pink, because anyone who runs 5:30 miles generally can put on a pair of shoes in way under 30 sec (the approx time loss you experienced by running barefoot vs. shod). I timed myself and it took me 5 sec to put on a pair of flats outfitted with elastic laces 
I led a tiny local sprint out of T2. The run was 2 miles, almost entirely on grass except for about 400 yards on smooth concrete. The only guy who outsplit me ran barefoot to save time in T2 (10:3X to 10:4X). That was his first attempt at barefooting.
Neither of us are remotely close to pros, and the run was probably short, but it can be done.
I run barefoot. I have run marathons barefoot. I plan on my first barefoot ultra marathon next spring. I am running IM CdA next June barefoot
I contacted the RD and asked if it was going to be against the rules. The lead ref replied and said that there is no rule prohibiting it. There is a rule for Kona though. He said it was fine in CdA
That being said, barefooting is not the fastest method out there. High speed is not great for your pads. When I do speed work I wear shoes. I can run a 3 hr marathon shod, but you take my shoes off, then I am closer to 4. I run for different reasons now than I used to. I have a lot of fun doing it. (and am injury free). Barefooting is probably not right for everyone, but it should be considered at least as a good option.
If I were a speed demon, I would think it would be hard to be competitive without shoes even though I nearly never wear them.
However, if it were a super sprint tri or something, then the time savings could actually outweigh the slight loss in speed over such a short distance. So maybe. But then there is really no skin durability issue over such a short distance.
And no, it does not hurt. Pain is just feedback saying you are doing something wrong.
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I think the problem is that while it’s true that for the vast majority of us, we’ll run a lot faster in sneakers now, the reality is that the same vast majority of us almost never train in minimalist or barefoot shoes. It makes it dicey thus to generalize that “they therefore must suck because I run slower in them” because you’re not even close to acclimated to them.
I’m far from going barefoot, but I do have to say that there is a huge preponderance of evidence for the more natural biomechanics, and almost none for the myriad types of shoes that were recently propagated - all those fancy motion control, overpronator, underpronator, etc., were products of marketing - not medical or scientific research. They’ve successfully advertised and made the shoes mainstream, and yes, they do work so I’m not saying they’re necessarily bad, but I do think the benenfits of using the natural human stride is still not being as recognized as it should be.
To this date, despite all our fancy technology, orthopedists do not have a good total ankle or foot prosthesis to replace that joing. You can amputate the lower leg and put on a racing blade like Pistorius, but if you want to replace only the ankle joint, there are no good solutions - fusing the joint is the most common approach. (We have very good knee and hip replacements, in contrast.) There’s a lot of complicating anatomy and physiology going on at the ankle that we’ve evolved over millenia - makes sense to take advantage of all of it, including the increased proprioception, better force distribution, etc.
Although I do hate the sudden jump in new early adopters using these minimalist shoes for like 3 weeks and then posting ‘it’s solved all my aches and pains - it’s the magic solution!’ Uhhh, no. Running in shoes for 3 weeks, even if it works for you then, doesn’t prove anything. Do it for years, including fast PRs, and then it’s convincing.
I’m far from going barefoot, but I do have to say that there is a huge preponderance of evidence for the more natural biomechanics
Oh my… you’re terrible at distinguishing evidence from anecdote.
So is the consensus that shoes = faster running? Or are the faster numbers with shoes because shoe sponsors are a primary source of income for elite pro runners?
maybe a good racing flat is lighter than the kind of calluses you need to run 40 miles a week barefoot? =)
Not debating that point, which I think is entirely possible. Just wondering if any fast triathletes are going barefoot on race day. Apparently not by what it sounds like here.
I’m not just asking about barefoot running as a ‘fad’ - my colleague is a MD, resident in training in the rehab residency at Johns Hopkins, and they just got a lecture from Dr. Irene Davis, who has studied running shoe biomechanics extensively, and provides a lot of evidence that running shoes have not reduced injuries whatsoever (and may have increased them.) While she doesn’t comment whether there’s a speed advantage of shoes vs no shoes, at the least, it seems that the barefoot running phenomena might not just be a weird fad to stick out from the crowd.
Some of her lectures can be seen here:
http://www.runblogger.com/...n-running-shoes.html
Of note, my friend the resident, who’s a runner himself (not great, but puts up 20min 5ks and runs marathons when he can), was totally against barefoot running and minimalist shoes until he heard her lecture. He’s now completely changed his tune, as the scientific evidence she presents is pretty convincing on the benefits of the barefoot running and no science behind the regular shoes. Again, this is different than going FAST - it’s entirely possible that running shoes may help you run faster than barefoot shoes.
With the amount of glass, nails, plastics, dog shyte etc, I see lying on sidewalks and fields, any perceived benefit would surely be wiped out by the injuries you would receive from sharp objects ramming into your feet.
Cripes, even the morons 5500 years ago knew it was better to have something on your feet
I’m far from going barefoot, but I do have to say that there is a huge preponderance of evidence for the more natural biomechanics
Oh my… you’re terrible at distinguishing evidence from anecdote.
Prove me wrong. Show me studies showing that all those fancy pronator, overpronator, motion control, etc shoes reduce injuries, make you go faster, or were based on actual science. You’re the pro coach, right?
I’m far from going barefoot, but I do have to say that there is a huge preponderance of evidence for the more natural biomechanics
Oh my… you’re terrible at distinguishing evidence from anecdote.
Prove me wrong. Show me studies showing that all those fancy pronator, overpronator, motion control, etc shoes reduce injuries, make you go faster, or were based on actual science. You’re the pro coach, right?
I never said I had evidence that running shoes reduce injuries, make you go faster, or were based on actual science.
YOU were the one that said that " there is a huge preponderance of evidence for the more natural biomechanics." That is FALSE. There isn’t ANY evidence that shows that minimalist running or barefoot running reduces injuries, makes you faster or is based on actual science.
And yes, I am a professional coach. How is that relevant for the discussion?
I’m far from going barefoot, but I do have to say that there is a huge preponderance of evidence for the more natural biomechanics
Oh my… you’re terrible at distinguishing evidence from anecdote.
Prove me wrong. Show me studies showing that all those fancy pronator, overpronator, motion control, etc shoes reduce injuries, make you go faster, or were based on actual science. You’re the pro coach, right?
I never said I had evidence that running shoes reduce injuries, make you go faster, or were based on actual science.
YOU were the one that said that " there is a huge preponderance of evidence for the more natural biomechanics." That is FALSE. There isn’t ANY evidence that shows that minimalist running or barefoot running reduces injuries, makes you faster or is based on actual science.
And yes, I am a professional coach. How is that relevant for the discussion?
My friend from Hopkins, the link to the MD I posted who has a lot of actual data, and of course, the Born to Run book, have differing opinions. Having seen what they have, while it’s not definitive by any means, it’s far better than the complete absence of data form the manufacturer side of things. It’ll be interesting to see how this plays out in upcoming years.
My friend from Hopkins, the link to the MD I posted who has a lot of actual data, and of course, the Born to Run book, have differing opinions.
Here’s what my friend from Harvard says:
"People are jumping to conclusions on both sides of the debate, but we must rely on evidence. The media is distorting the science or just leaving it out. The key thing is not being barefoot, but using a barefoot style, and not colliding into the ground with your heels.”
This concept of using a barefoot style has been around forever and doesn’t need special shoes (or actually being barefoot).
And for the nth time… Born to Run is a FICTION novel.
In Ontario - you cant run barefoot on the run - you have to run in shoes of some sort!! ITU rules I think that are adopted and enforced by provincial associations. That said - i expect that the rules may change to allow people to run barefoot if they want.
My friend from Hopkins, the link to the MD I posted who has a lot of actual data, and of course, the Born to Run book, have differing opinions.
Here’s what my friend from Harvard says:
"People are jumping to conclusions on both sides of the debate, but we must rely on evidence. The media is distorting the science or just leaving it out. The key thing is not being barefoot, but using a barefoot style, and not colliding into the ground with your heels.”
This concept of using a barefoot style has been around forever and doesn’t need special shoes (or actually being barefoot).
And for the nth time… Born to Run is a FICTION novel.
I agree with you. Barefoot per say is probably not necessary. Even most barefoot runners agree that you need some sort of layer to protect your skin from rocks, cold, etc.
Still, despite this, I’m still waiting on the complete absence of evidence from the other ‘complex shoes are good’ side though. For a multibillion dollar industry to have pretty much zero science behind all their newfangled creations and subtypes of shoes, it’s pretty impressive to me that they can’t muster up a single series of reasonable scientific or medical studies showing what they do works/helps. You’d think they’d have at least one medical-type spokesperson or authority to back up what their ‘technology’ does, but if anything, it looks like they’re all jumping more and more on to the minimalist bandwagon themselves and eliminating the heel-toe drop. I guess another sub-market just = more profits for them, so there’s no incentive for them to actually see if what they use works.
Is the novel “Born to Run” being used as “evidence?” Bad move.
Is the novel “Born to Run” being used as “evidence?” Bad move.
Bad as it is, it’s still better than the zero evidence on the opposite side of the table for all those fancy built up shoes.
Why can’t there be a middle ground. I waer shoes but fairly light ones for training and really light ones for racing.