Any Canadians with/had a hip labral tear here?

tigerpaws, where do you live? Wherever it is, I’m moving there!

I just found this thread while researching surgeons who do hip arthroscopy in British Columbia. I’ve had ongoing hip pain for 6 years and have been getting the runaround all that time. Some days I think I must be going crazy and that it’s all in my head. I haven’t ridden in nearly 3 years because of the pain, running is bearable most times as long as I keep it to a short, slow shuffle. But the pain is variable, comes and goes, some days it’s very bad and some days my hip is relatively good. Sometimes it keeps me awake at night, or hurts so much that I can’t sit at my desk, while other times it gives me relatively little trouble even when I’ve been fairly active.

GP says I’m getting older and should just get used to slowing down. I’m 47 fer cryin’ out loud! Sports doc found tendinosis and refuses to look further even though I repeatedly explained that I have other pain that’s nowhere near the vicinity of the tendon and is of an entirely different character.

Finally had the good fortune to have my last appt on a PMS day - I suppose the tears helped my cause - and GP finally referred me to an orthopedic surgeon and for a contrast MRI. Both appts are 7 months away, and now I understand that after seeing the local orthopedic surgeon I will likely be referred on to another surgeon who does hip arthroscopy, as it’s fairly new and not many docs do it. The one that I know of, Mike Gilbart in Vancouver, has a wait list of 3 years just for a consult, unless I pay privately, then it’s only 2 weeks.

If any fellow British Columbians have any insight/advice/suggestions for how to move things along I’d sure appreciate hearing from you!

Tampa, FL come on down! The doc even let me get my MRI at an Open Tower MRI center which does cash price discounts…~$275 for the MRI and they did a ‘wet read’ that day and sent it to the ortho the next morning.

I’m not saying our health care system is perfect, but I’m not saying it’s horrible…for me at least. I love my health care and don’t want anything changed about it whatsoever. Never had a single complaint with my delivery system.

I feel for you and have a business acquaintance from Montreal who came to the states to have his knee done in Greenville, SC done about 2 years ago. He had been kicked around the Canadian system for a couple of years w/o having had any success in getting the knee done. Come to find out he had 2 bucket handle tears in his medial meniscus. He paid cash out of pocket and is as good as new.

By the way that is EPIC. 3 years for a consult and 7 months for a contrast MRI? That is the most EFFED up delivery system, hopefully I won’t ever have to endure it.

Wow, that’s about as far away from where I am while still remaining on the continent! Think I’ll have to find something a bit closer to home.

There are definitely pros and cons to both the Canadian and American health care systems. Unfortunately, speed of treatment is not one of our advantages it seems. Perhaps it’s true that you get what you pay for.

I’m going to see this Dr. Gilbart privately for a consultation to see if he thinks he can do anything for me. Cost is $500 for half an hour, review of my images, and one follow up. Private contrast MRI is another $1,200 if he thinks it’s necessary for a diagnosis. If surgery is needed it will be $10,000 - $12,000. Maybe I’d be better off to take a holiday stateside…sounds like it could be the cheaper option, even with travel and a couple night’s stay?

I just came across this forum while doing some research on FAI. I, like many of you have been suffering with pain for years-almost 20 to be exact-and I am 39. After having done every test imaginable, and seeing the local(Ottawa, Ont.)back surgeon-Dr. Chow, more than 5 times-I had no answers. My biggest complaint was chronic back pain, lower, thoracic, and cervical, as well as nerve impingement sypmtoms in my legs, shoulders and hands. I have tried every therapy I could Google, some traditional, and many not, with no results and a slow progression of my pain. Like many of you I had to search for my own answers, and was not impressed with the help I received from the therapist at the time. I was even told I had a low pain tolerance, and that my problem was mostly in my head! They would concead though that I had muscle tightness throughout my body that they couldn’t explain, only to say that none of the “traditional” tests showed anything wrong with me. EESSSHH!! The frustrating part was that they would not recommend anyone outside of their area of expertise, and refused to reasess me when their approach didn’t work. I wanted someone to help me find the solution-sorry to say I had to do that on my own.

I am athletic playing competitive hockey and soccer, and now men’s league hockey only. I used to do the traditional “bodybuilding” style workouts and managed to get to a bodyweight of 225 lbs, with a 34 inch waist at 5’10. All that to say, that those workouts made me worse, and I eventually stopped alltogether at 27 yrs. I have since managed to keep my pain progession to a slow crawl, but it still progressed. One good thing that came out of this process is my determination to find smarter ways to workout. I haven’t searched much of this sight, but it appears to be a running based site. I prefer weights, but have moved into cardio circuits with weights. I have found kettlebells, and have been using them for over 8 yrs. now. I have also found that training movements instead of muscles, has changed my outlook on training, making it more effective and efficient. Some great resources to help you help yourself during your search for a proper diagnosis to your pain are as follows:

-Functional Movement Screen(FMS)-developped by physiotherapist Gray Cook-geared towards a systematic approach for assessing faulty movement patterns in a person, and correcting them through exercise-there are certifications with many practitioners Canada
-Magnificient Mobility DVD-Eric Cressey-shows you how to warm-up properly and why stretching before an athletic activity is counter productive
-Core Performance Essentials-this has been a big part of my workout for the past 3 yrs.-it’s main goal is to get your body to work properly-this would be even more effective if you had the FMS first, but it’s best features are smart exercises with planned progression-ie. if I asked you in 4 months how your workout was coming you would actually be able to tell me how much you improved
-Pain Free by Peter Egosuce-this book didn’t fix me but it changed my view on how I could achieve a permanent solution to my pain, and gave me greater insight into how the body works-there’s a website also
-read any articles from Mike Boyle, Eric Cressey, Mike Robertson, Gray Cook and Brett Jones-Jones and Cook collaborated on a project using kettlebells and Indian club swinging to restore proper function to your body

Sorry for the long reply, but I wanted to share my experience with pain, and how I increased my knowledge in terms of exercising intelligently to find a lasting cure to my pain. Wtih that being said, my pain still progressed until I was properly diagnosed inn April 2009.

My wife suffered from hip pain, had a labral tear repaired by the famous(now retired) Dr. Fowler in London Ont. The surgery did not fix her pain, and subsequent visits to other “experts” provided nothing. They said good luck with physiotherapy. Finally after another trip to a different doctor, he recommended her to see Dr. Paul Beaule here in Ottawa. He found her problem in 3 minutes, using an x-ray only, on her first appointment. He performed a proceedure called a Bernese Periacetabular Osteotomy(probably spelled wrong), where he cut her pelvis into three peices, adjusted it to fit properly, and screwed it back together. She was back riding a Harley less than 6 months later. She was a national team rower(now a mother of two), and still in great shape. The surgery was a complete success!

I then booked my appointment with Dr. Beaule and was seen April 1/09. It took him less than a minute to find my problem. Femoral Acetabular Impingement-FAI. Music to my ears-my pain wasn’t in my head. From all the research that I had noted above, I figured that my hips may be the source of my pain, and now it was confirmed. Beaule stated that improper hip function, will cause back pain. If you read Cook’s and Mike Bolye’s “joint by Joint” approach to training, they say the same thing.

I got the call for a surgery date 2 weeks ago, and am going in for a bilateral hip arthroscopy on July 21/11-almost 2 yrs. and 4 months later! The wait has sucked big time, and my pain came to a head in late March when I severely pinched my sciatic nerve working out no less. I have been on light duties at work ever since-surgery can’t come soon enough!

Things are progressing quickly in the area of hip surgery, especially FAI, and my doctor, who originally told me he could only operate on one hip at at time(I have FAI on both hips), will now be operating on both at once. I am nervous and the reason for my search was an attempt to find anyone else who had both hips operated on at once-I have had negative results so far.

My research has shown that I am very lucky to have Dr. Paul Beaule here in Ottawa, that his last job before coming here was in UCLA, and that he is a leading researcher in the area of hip athroscopy. He chairs many educational seminars(for other hips surgeons), with one coming up in New York this month. From my understanding he specialized in the Arthroscopic proceedure while studying pro athletes with hip pain. Traditional “open” surgeries were to invaisive and the rehab so hard that many pro athletes solved their pain problems, but never returned to play pro. His advancements in the arthroscopic proceedure has brought this number up significantly.

This is a long reply, just venting about my experience, sorry. I would call his office in Ottawa, and ask for a recommended doctor in your area. I would also look at some of the information I provided above to help you along while waiting for your appointments-be proactive. Lots of information about how to train your body to function properly is out there, as well as improved methods to recover after surgery. For any hockey fans out there, Ray Emery(goalie for the Anaheim Ducks) had the same hip disease as Bo Jackson did. He got surgery-I don’t know what kind-and rehabed his hip in Toronto with a private trainer named Matt Nicol. I contacted him telling him about my FAI, and he stated that he could help me prepare my body for surgery, and help rehab me afterwards. He also recommended a local trainer-Lorne Goldenberg strength coach for the Montreal Canadians-here in Ottawa. I contacted him and he also offered to help. I never went because I felt that it would be to expensive, but wonder if it would benefit me.

I’ll end it here, search lots, stay diligent, keep your spirits up, and keep moving.

Cheers,

Steve

Hi Everyone. I came across this forum like many of you searching for some answers. Last year I was training for a 5km and was hit by a speeding car while I was crossing in a crosswalk. I sustained several injuries, including a substantial labral tear on the medial and lateral sides of my hip joint. I am a personal trainer and yoga instructor by trade and have not been able to work since and am in daily pain. I cannot walk without the assistance of a cane and some days can’t walk at all. I had several MRIs done (went privately, the wait was up to 1yr otherwise), one of which was of my hip, which showed the labral tear. Dr. Gilbart was highly recommended to me, so ended up going privately to see him. Dr. Gilbart wanted a MRI Arthogram (contrast) performed, which I did privately (the wait would have been 18 months) The MRI Arthogram showed the tear is bigger and on both sides of my hip. I am now again waiting to get back in to see him. There is a big hold up going to see him privately and I understand he is the best of the best when it comes to orthopedic surgery, but does anyone know of another orthopedic surgeon in BC? This wait is horrible and I so desperately want my hip fixed so I can have some movement again and then begin to deal with these other injuries. I miss training so much.

Sasser, I can relate! I’ve been a dance and fitness instructor for over 25 years but have been stopped in my tracks by this pain. It’s so frustrating and I sympathize!

Have you had your follow up with Dr. Gilbart yet, or just seen the results of the MRI? I had my follow up appt a couple of weeks ago and am booked for surgery on August 16th. There didn’t seem to be a problem with wait times when I was in…maybe he’s taking a holiday or something? The nerve LOL!

Dr. Gilbart came highly recommended to me and I was lucky to get moving through the process relatively quickly, though I went the private route too. It’s just not worth waiting any longer after 6 years. I understand his public clinic has a 3 year wait list just to get in for an initial consultation! I was told the wait for surgery through the public system (having already seen him privately and received a diagnosis) is 6-9 months, but only 2-4 weeks privately.

I wish I could help with recommending another surgeon, but hopefully things will be moving again soon at the private clinic. Let us know how it turns out for you!

A six month wait for an MRI? We need health care reform in the U.S. BAD. I had to wait 2 days for an MRI on a femoral stress fracture. I bet I’d have to wait a week if I needed surgery for something.

anybody have feedback on Dr. Gavin Wood, Kingston Ontario?

Pretty sure a sports specialist doc can order this as well…not just an ortho.

Best of luck with your surgery! You are in good hands!

Hi, how did your surgery go? I am waiting to see Dr Murnaghan for similar problem. Can you share your post surgery experience? Thanks

Thanks Hutch for the quick reply. I am glad you are getting better without setbacks. I am also 41 years old. I am nervous about the surgery. I probably need resurfacing in the future, hopefully many years from now. I heard with resurfacing you can do all sports. Who are you seeing for post rehab? Can you recommend him/her? Who else did you see other than Dr Murnaghan? Thanks again.

Hi,

I worked with Dr Mike Gilbart a few years ago as a medical student.
He works out of ubc hospital in Vancouver.

Great guy and one of the few who does hip arthroscopy.

What is the name of the resident who had a fellowship under Marc Phillippon in Colorado?

I need to find some new hip orthopods in Ontario that can fix my hip. I got FAI that needs a revision, as well as a labral repair.

I already had 1 surgery done by Dr. Murnaghan. 1 year post, he tells me that the FAI came back and I also found out that he didn’t do anything to my labral tear. Studies have shown that people who had labral repair had better long-term outcomes than those with labral debridements. My labrum is inn bad shape so I’d rather find someone who knows how to do both a repair and a labral reconstruction via IT band graft like the article Dr. Phillippon posted this year. Therefore, I need to find the fresh hip orthopods that have had their fellowship done with Dr. Phillippon.

I wasn’t aware that FAI can come back either. But the MRI confirmed it on my femur.

I just turned 26 years old and I am fairly active playing basketball, volleyball, and strength training. I only have issues when I play 2-3 days in a row or whenever I go heavy lower-body training (e.g. squats, lunges). I also had microfracture surgery in the scope secondary to an articular cartilage lesion so I know I could get arthritis earlier than expected. But if I get my labrum debrided, I know that would really mess up the long-term health of my hip joint, which is probably why Dr. Murnaghan didn’t know anything with the labral tear.

So I’m willing to wait a few years for Canadian surgeons to learn this new labral repair/reconstruction technique that Dr. Phillippon has published this year. I’m just getting a little anxious… heh

hutch and hip guy, I’ve had both hips scoped this year, and one of the first questions I asked prior to surgery was if the FAI could grow back ? Answer was yes. My surgeon in So. California, Dr. Snibbe, gives his patients a 1 month dose of Naproxen a week after surgery to combat this problem (hope it works). I also had the pleasure of getting the IT Band graft that you are referring to on the second hip surgery. Not fun at all. My labrum was basically not there anymore- it had calcified- turned into the bone on the hip socket. So, they harvested a 2cm x 4cm piece from my IT Band out of my thigh in an open operation during the scope surgery. I have had a much more difficult time healing from the harvesting than the FAI/ labural repair. Its been 4 weeks and just starting to feel normal and the swelling has finally gone away. As for the graft itself, the surgeon said it was the best new procedure available and should be better than ever. They stitch each end of the graft to what is left of healthy tissue, then used 4 anchors to pull it back to the bone. They are also able to do this w/ a cadaver graft if they know in advance (how they know this is very difficult i imagine). So far my Surgeon has only preformed 30 or so of these grafts and learned it from Dr. Phillipon also. Otherwise, if they cannot do a reattachment and only do a debridement I believe the patient will be looking at a hip resurface / replacement a lot sooner than planned. In my case I had no knowledge of this new procedure (and was asleep when the decision was made) but it was the best available plan for my long term recovery. My Surgeon is one of the best in the country and at the forefront of any new technology. I feel very fortunate to have found him (through Slowtwitch) in my home here in Los Angeles. Anthony

Hi Anthony,

Thanks for the detailed description on your surgeries because that’s exactly what I’m looking for in Canada. At first, I was contemplating about going to the States, but I just started my career and I don’t want to take an extended break due to surgery until I need to since I have no hip problems with work activities. If you know Canadian surgeons who have done this type of surgery, please let me know. I’d appreciate it greatly!

If anyone asks why I’m so eagered to try this, it’s because I’m all about hip preservation. Not short-term fixes.

My 1st MRI showed degenerative tearing of the anterior-superior labrum with CAM type FAI.
My surgery consisted of osteoplasty for the CAM type FAI, microfracture for the articular cartilage lesion, and debridement of a “large actebular rim fracture”
My 2nd MRI 1 year post showed “anterior superior labral tearing” and CAM type FAI again :frowning:

I wonder if anyone in Canada is also in this situation :confused:

Hello there everyone!

I have a few questions for all you with hip labral tear(s). How big are your tears? What is said about your tear(s) Do you guys use crutches/cane(s)?

About me. Im 26 yrs young female. I have had extreme hip pain since a fall I had when i was 9 months pregnant. …days away from my due date :frowning: The fall has brought on the worse time of my life. I have just found out that i do have a tear on both left and right hip plus tons of soft tissue damage … It has been 2 yrs since the fall and i have just gotten answers, however I’m kind of lost. I saw Dr Brain who told me i was severely disabled which wasn’t what I was thinking. . .i know i have major problems with movement (walking, running. .etc) however i dont consider myself that bad off. Anyways he said he couldnt help me and that he would send me to Dr Gilbart. I have seen Dr gilbart but he suggested that surgery isn’t for me as i have too much soft tissue damage that could become worse. . .if he was me he wouldnt do surgery. However at that point i only knew for sure I had the one tear but now i have both tears and i would like to be fixed. . . i am limited to what I can and can not do. . . .which at 26 with 3 children isnt what I ever had never dreamed off in my life. My one Dr who is not a surgeon but a

Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation said that for my soft tissue to even start to get better is to have the surgery. . .so Now im waiting to

hear back from Dr Gilbarts office. I want

to be normal again. . . i use a cane or crutches when needed. . . i should be using a cane 100 % of the time but its a hard with young

kids. . . Anywho I have found this all vary helpful. . .thank you everyone for posting. Please let me know how big are your tears im just

wondering as im not getting much about sizes of tears.

OK so I’m just creeping this thread. As many of you may know, I’m a knee specialist in the GTA. Couldn’t help but comment on hip arthroscopy. The real reason very few Canadians do the surgery (and the reason Marc Phillipon, a Canadian, went to the US) is that the payment here is horrible. We used to get $300 to do the surgery while Marc charges $12,000. Welcome to socialized healthcare!
The pay schedule just changed and Ontario surgeons are now getting up to $1000 for the surgery so more guys are doing it.
The guys with the most experience with hip scopes in southern Ontario are Doug Naudie in London, Femi Ayeni in Hamilton and Mark Ginty in Oakville. I don’t know about Dr Murnaghans hip scope training, but he is an overall superb surgeon technically (and he is a nice guy too).
Hope that helps somewhat.