So I’m thinking that a lot of people are sitting up pretty high on their bikes because it’s comfortable, or they have scoliosis, or whatever. We always tell them to get lower. OK, cool.
What if they can’t or won’t get lower? What are the alternatives? How much can other position changes (I dunno, knees in, etc) make up for a somewhat upright position? What are some of those other changes?
Hello,
I’m frankly surprised at all the high tech equipment ridden by people with loose flapping clothing, loops of long cable housing, etc. Whatever your position you should try to minimise extra bulk. Shoe straps can be cut, helmet straps can be shortened, cables can be shortened, wear tight clothes, zip zippers, be careful where you put food/tires/bottles. In addition I’ve read that aero helmets help an upright position more than a low position.
Styrrell
narrow is another big factor. Minimizing frontal area. That can be achieve through narrowing yourself as well as lowering yourself.
Plus all the little things to make your bike itself more aero. Lance is a great example of this. His position is dictated in large part by his old spinal injury. But he makes it work by getting narrow and using an arrow helmet and taking advantage of the the best equipment.
People that won’t go down will always come up with excuses…
isn’t that what the guy always says?
:0
Close the cup" with your hands
What’s that mean?
The closer your hands are together, generally the better off you are. There was an analogy of Boone Lennon, who holds several of the original aerobar patents, that the human body on the bike is like a cup. The idea is to “close the cup” so that air flows around the rider, rather than into the rider. So the idea is to keep the hands close, to push air out and around the elbows, which should be slightly outside of the knees, to push air around the body. Other ways to “close the cup” include tucking your head down (even if you can’t get a flat back, you can focus on not sticking your head way up into the wind) so that you don’t have this big bulge in the middle of clean air.
A bit of history here. When the wind tunnel tests were done for the original Lotus bike, they found that it was better to have the elbows more apart then the testers previously thought. Go look for pics of Chris Boardman hour record before the superman position and you’ll see his elbows apart.
Far be it from me to tangle with SAC, but isn’t that what Rappstar said? Keep the *hands *close together, and keep the elbows wide enough to shelter the knees?
Yes, the elbows debate is quite interesting, as the width of the elbows affects flow around the knees and the body, but the elbow width also must affect the width of the hands.
EDIT: even in the superman, his elbows and hands are quite wide. But then again, he is VERY low. Perhaps he could not have been as low if his arms were tighter, as he might not have been able to get his head in…
Ah, ok, I forgot to mention, arms were very straight.
OK, so you’re saying the whole “cup the hands” thing is wrong? Dang, it seemed to make sense.
Yes it seemed, back in the 80’s…
BTW, who let you out of the Lavender Room???
Yes it seemed, back in the 80’s…
80s?
Boardman et al.s’ findings were fairly specific to rider, bike, position, and wouldn’t necessarily be best for everyone. I tried the parallel arm position for some months, but it never ‘worked’ for me, for whatever reason.
Great point.
Just stand at the exit to any big IM race and you will see this all over the place - cutting edge $5,000+ aero bike and wheels and loose fitting clothing and numbers flapping in the breeze, stuff stuck on the bike in all manner of places, mostly bad, with a rider very poorly positioned and now with the super duper aero-helmet with the tail sticking up into the wind like a sail! Why did they even bother with the super fly aero rig? I am not sure I get it.
Fleck
The original Lotus was built for Barcelona '92. So yes, 80’s.
Yes it seemed, back in the 80’s…
So . . . . keep the elbows out and keep the hands right along out there, then?
BTW, who let you out of the Lavender Room???
I come out every once in awhile to check up on cerveloguy. Nobody better be mistreatin’ him, hear?
Lance and Zabriskie are both tight elbows and hands…
Boardman was VERY low, and I said, tightening the elbows and hands may have prevented him from getting lower, as doing so would automatically round the back (just touch your forearms together in front of you to see).
You see much more of the tight hands and elbows in the pro peloton among excellent TT’ers than you do boardman type positioning. Just something to think about, especially when you are talking about people with limitations on how low they can get.
Also, MANY of the pictures of Boardman during track and other TT events show the elbows quite tight, as evidenced by his elbow cups on the aerobars.
I am going to disagree with SAC on this one…
Boardman during his first hour record
the wide elbows here accompany a MUCH lower position. tightening the hands and elbows here would have been very difficult given how low he was and how he tucked his head
Again, notice the tight hands and elbows during the Isle on Man TT.
Here too, notice the tight hands and elbows…
“CLOSING THE CUP” is present in all except for when he is in the superman, since being so low, he could not have been as tight with the hands and elbows…
Yes 1992, but still don’t think you’re right about being in the wind tunnel in the 80s. btw, it’s “80s”, not “80’s”