AG worlds - poor results for USA due to cost?

Triathlon Forum
1

i know flight/hotel costs are difficult to control (for one choose airbnb instead of hotel)… but come on USAT - do you think its right to have these excessive costs for registration and team kit? most aquathlon races are less than $100. A full kit can be had at $120. That being said, many high ranking competitive individuals do not make a lot of money wont be able to afford the $300 registration and $250 race kit, thus USA will not have good representation at world championships.

Costs in tri dilute the competition… might as well do ironman - or - 10 local competitive races at these costs

2

Costs in tri dilute the competition … might as well do 10 local competitive races at these costs.

x10

3

Agreed! Add my X10.

Costs in tri dilute the competition … might as well do 10 local competitive races at these costs.

x10

4

I think you may have the motivations wrong…

Is it the intent to have a successful team or is the intent a successful fundraising effort? Do they ever have trouble filling the spots?

5

i know flight/hotel costs are difficult to control (for one choose airbnb instead of hotel)… but come on USAT - do you think its right to have these excessive costs for registration and team kit? most aquathlon races are less than $100. A full kit can be had at $120. That being said, many high ranking competitive individuals do not make a lot of money wont be able to afford the $300 registration and $250 race kit, thus USA will not have good representation at world championships.

Costs in tri dilute the competition… might as well do ironman - or - 10 local competitive races at these costs

Totally disagree!! Compared to what my racing costs overall, these costs are trivial. Now, what many want to, or can afford to travel is a different issue. I have talked to plenty
who cannot afford to go to Hawaii.

Even though I do not really have the money, if I qualify for two different world locations next year, I might try to find it. Plus a long travel to a nationals. It is all just about
priorities for everyone. I am always amazed at most folks who complain about money, and then I look at their lives, from what they have and what they spend. Most are
doing just fine.

So, if you do not like it, great, pass and let someone else who would love to go attend. NO race ever is the best. Whether that is olympics or AG stuff. People are hurt
or cannot afford the stuff. Life is not fair.

6

i know flight/hotel costs are difficult to control (for one choose airbnb instead of hotel)… but come on USAT - do you think its right to have these excessive costs for registration and team kit? most aquathlon races are less than $100. A full kit can be had at $120. That being said, many high ranking competitive individuals do not make a lot of money wont be able to afford the $300 registration and $250 race kit, thus USA will not have good representation at world championships.

Costs in tri dilute the competition… might as well do ironman - or - 10 local competitive races at these costs

As our national governing body, USAT offers national championships and the opportunity to make Team USA for AG worlds as a SERVICE. Unlike the Olympics where the goal really is to field medal contenders, USAT’s job with age groupers is pretty much just to make sure the administrative bases are covered. If Team USA age groupers actually do well, that’s a bonus, but not the intended goal … as evidenced by the actions of the entire enterprise, not by whatever they might say the goal is.

As to registration and race kit…yep, they are high. But really, in a sport where tens of thousands of folks are popping $300 for a half and $700+ for a full, do you think the registration fee is really an issue? And when it comes to tri-suits the issue is not that $250 is too high (e.g., the Kiwami LD Aero Trisuit is $379), the real issue is that for $250 you can get much better quality than USAT is providing through their sponsorship with Tyr.

The real cost limiter on the AG Worlds is always determined by the location relative to the competitor’s home address. Flight costs for the athlete and family, plus hotel, meals, local transportation, and any follow-on travel dwarf the registration fee and race kit expense. So if your premise is that USAT could have fielded a more competitive team by merely reducing registration from say $300 to $200, and the kit from say $250 to $150 for a net savings of $200 on what can easily be a $5K or more trip … then I think you are flat wrong.

7

i know flight/hotel costs are difficult to control (for one choose airbnb instead of hotel)… but come on USAT - do you think its right to have these excessive costs for registration and team kit? most aquathlon races are less than $100. A full kit can be had at $120. That being said, many high ranking competitive individuals do not make a lot of money wont be able to afford the $300 registration and $250 race kit, thus USA will not have good representation at world championships.

Costs in tri dilute the competition… might as well do ironman - or - 10 local competitive races at these costs

As our national governing body, USAT offers national championships and the opportunity to make Team USA for AG worlds as a SERVICE. Unlike the Olympics where the goal really is to field medal contenders, USAT’s job with age groupers is pretty much just to make sure the administrative bases are covered. If Team USA age groupers actually do well, that’s a bonus, but not the intended goal … as evidenced by the actions of the entire enterprise, not by whatever they might say the goal is.

As to registration and race kit…yep, they are high. But really, in a sport where tens of thousands of folks are popping $300 for a half and $700+ for a full, do you think the registration fee is really an issue? And when it comes to tri-suits the issue is not that $250 is too high (e.g., the Kiwami LD Aero Trisuit is $379), the real issue is that for $250 you can get much better quality than USAT is providing through their sponsorship with Tyr.

The real cost limiter on the AG Worlds is always determined by the location relative to the competitor’s home address. Flight costs for the athlete and family, plus hotel, meals, local transportation, and any follow-on travel dwarf the registration fee and race kit expense. So if your premise is that USAT could have fielded a more competitive team by merely reducing registration from say $300 to $200, and the kit from say $250 to $150 for a net savings of $200 on what can easily be a $5K or more trip … then I think you are flat wrong.

Spot on.

When I took my wife, two kids, and their husbands on TeamUSA to Gold Cost in 2009, it cost me like over 10K, and I had just lost my job. But, the memories we have as
a family being there will last a lifetime!!!

I do not even want to think what it will cost to go to Penticton worlds in 2017. But, the kit cost and registration will be a drop in the bucket compared to lodging, food and travel costs for 10 days. Ouch. Let alone if I also go to Rotterdam.

8

i know flight/hotel costs are difficult to control (for one choose airbnb instead of hotel)… but come on USAT - do you think its right to have these excessive costs for registration and team kit? most aquathlon races are less than $100. A full kit can be had at $120. That being said, many high ranking competitive individuals do not make a lot of money wont be able to afford the $300 registration and $250 race kit, thus USA will not have good representation at world championships.

Costs in tri dilute the competition… might as well do ironman - or - 10 local competitive races at these costs

As our national governing body, USAT offers national championships and the opportunity to make Team USA for AG worlds as a SERVICE. Unlike the Olympics where the goal really is to field medal contenders, USAT’s job with age groupers is pretty much just to make sure the administrative bases are covered. If Team USA age groupers actually do well, that’s a bonus, but not the intended goal … as evidenced by the actions of the entire enterprise, not by whatever they might say the goal is.

As to registration and race kit…yep, they are high. But really, in a sport where tens of thousands of folks are popping $300 for a half and $700+ for a full, do you think the registration fee is really an issue? And when it comes to tri-suits the issue is not that $250 is too high (e.g., the Kiwami LD Aero Trisuit is $379), the real issue is that for $250 you can get much better quality than USAT is providing through their sponsorship with Tyr.

The real cost limiter on the AG Worlds is always determined by the location relative to the competitor’s home address. Flight costs for the athlete and family, plus hotel, meals, local transportation, and any follow-on travel dwarf the registration fee and race kit expense. So if your premise is that USAT could have fielded a more competitive team by merely reducing registration from say $300 to $200, and the kit from say $250 to $150 for a net savings of $200 on what can easily be a $5K or more trip … then I think you are flat wrong.

Spot on.

When I took my wife, two kids, and their husbands on TeamUSA to Gold Cost in 2009, it cost me like over 10K, and I had just lost my job. But, the memories we have as
a family being there will last a lifetime!!!

I do not even want to think what it will cost to go to Penticton worlds in 2017. But, the kit cost and registration will be a drop in the bucket compared to lodging, food and travel costs for 10 days. Ouch. Let alone if I also go to Rotterdam.

penticton is not too expensive and dont forget you get a 30 per cent discount due to the exchange rate with canadian dollars…

9

Yep, spot on. Well said.

I understand the argument that costs in tri dilute the competition, but that’s true of every sport.

ETA: I would suspect that having Worlds in Edmonton and then Chicago probably hurt the team for Cozumel. A lot of people had the chance to do Worlds since it was fairly close, and with 70.3 Worlds in Chattanooga next year you probably have a lot of people focused on that.

10

Age group worlds are always to some extent going to come down to who can afford to go. Some of the best athletes can afford it and some can’t. From the cycling point of view, I went to master’s road worlds in Saint Johann in Austria in 2007. In my 45+ field of about 130 riders there were probably 30-35 each German’s and Italians. Both countries are just a short drive away. I think that there were 3-5 American’s in my group. Back then really the only qualifier was whether or not you had a credit card and passport to make the trip.

Now they have changed to a qualifier based system. (It’s super easy to qualify though.) Even still though, my team mates went to worlds in Denmark last year and Australia this year. In their 200+ rider 45+ race last year, there were something like 80 (!!) Brits. There were so many because they had a HUGE qualifier (you qualify by finishing int he top x percent, bigger field means more qualifiers.) Also, it’s a easy ferry trip for them to get to Denmark. As it turns out though, about 90 percent of those Brits got shelled directly and my team mate who traveled from California won. He a Canadian though, but we try not to hold that against him. :slight_smile:

This year another team mate of mine in that same group won the TT, but they all got worked over by the Australians and missed the winning break in the road race.

As always though, it’s entirely possible that the best athlete didn’t make the trip. That’s just the way it goes when you’re talking about part time athlete’s like us.

Similar to triathlon, it is now a requirement to get a Team USA kit, you can’t wear your normal team kit in the road race. But it’s not the $100 or so for a USA kit that has kept me from going back, it’s the difficulty in justifying spending $2-5 thousand dollars to travel across the ocean for a masters race.

11

i know flight/hotel costs are difficult to control (for one choose airbnb instead of hotel)… but come on USAT - do you think its right to have these excessive costs for registration and team kit? most aquathlon races are less than $100. A full kit can be had at $120. That being said, many high ranking competitive individuals do not make a lot of money wont be able to afford the $300 registration and $250 race kit, thus USA will not have good representation at world championships.

Costs in tri dilute the competition… might as well do ironman - or - 10 local competitive races at these costs

As our national governing body, USAT offers national championships and the opportunity to make Team USA for AG worlds as a SERVICE. Unlike the Olympics where the goal really is to field medal contenders, USAT’s job with age groupers is pretty much just to make sure the administrative bases are covered. If Team USA age groupers actually do well, that’s a bonus, but not the intended goal … as evidenced by the actions of the entire enterprise, not by whatever they might say the goal is.

As to registration and race kit…yep, they are high. But really, in a sport where tens of thousands of folks are popping $300 for a half and $700+ for a full, do you think the registration fee is really an issue? And when it comes to tri-suits the issue is not that $250 is too high (e.g., the Kiwami LD Aero Trisuit is $379), the real issue is that for $250 you can get much better quality than USAT is providing through their sponsorship with Tyr.

The real cost limiter on the AG Worlds is always determined by the location relative to the competitor’s home address. Flight costs for the athlete and family, plus hotel, meals, local transportation, and any follow-on travel dwarf the registration fee and race kit expense. So if your premise is that USAT could have fielded a more competitive team by merely reducing registration from say $300 to $200, and the kit from say $250 to $150 for a net savings of $200 on what can easily be a $5K or more trip … then I think you are flat wrong.

Spot on.

When I took my wife, two kids, and their husbands on TeamUSA to Gold Cost in 2009, it cost me like over 10K, and I had just lost my job. But, the memories we have as
a family being there will last a lifetime!!!

I do not even want to think what it will cost to go to Penticton worlds in 2017. But, the kit cost and registration will be a drop in the bucket compared to lodging, food and travel costs for 10 days. Ouch. Let alone if I also go to Rotterdam.

penticton is not too expensive and dont forget you get a 30 per cent discount due to the exchange rate with canadian dollars…

I have not looked at the costs yet, but for the folks that have, they told me it is real expensive

12

Age group worlds are always to some extent going to come down to who can afford to go. Some of the best athletes can afford it and some can’t. From the cycling point of view, I went to master’s road worlds in Saint Johann in Austria in 2007. In my 45+ field of about 130 riders there were probably 30-35 each German’s and Italians. Both countries are just a short drive away. I think that there were 3-5 American’s in my group. Back then really the only qualifier was whether or not you had a credit card and passport to make the trip.

Now they have changed to a qualifier based system. (It’s super easy to qualify though.) Even still though, my team mates went to worlds in Denmark last year and Australia this year. In their 200+ rider 45+ race last year, there were something like 80 (!!) Brits. There were so many because they had a HUGE qualifier (you qualify by finishing int he top x percent, bigger field means more qualifiers.) Also, it’s a easy ferry trip for them to get to Denmark. As it turns out though, about 90 percent of those Brits got shelled directly and my team mate who traveled from California won. He a Canadian though, but we try not to hold that against him. :slight_smile:

This year another team mate of mine in that same group won the TT, but they all got worked over by the Australians and missed the winning break in the road race.

As always though, it’s entirely possible that the best athlete didn’t make the trip. That’s just the way it goes when you’re talking about part time athlete’s like us.

Similar to triathlon, it is now a requirement to get a Team USA kit, you can’t wear your normal team kit in the road race. But it’s not the $100 or so for a USA kit that has kept me from going back, it’s the difficulty in justifying spending $2-5 thousand dollars to travel across the ocean for a masters race.

So true, which is why even though I have some world TeamUSA opportunities next year, is this the best place to spend so much money for the family? Now if I knew I would be dead in a year, …

13

That being said, many high ranking competitive individuals do not make a lot of money wont be able to afford the $300 registration and $250 race kit…
Where’s your data to back this up?

The USAT data indicates that their membership has a median household income of $126,000.
https://www.teamusa.org/usa-triathlon/about/multisport/demographics

–
I completely disagree that one might as well do an IM or 10 local races.
Worlds is a completely different racing experience from either of these options, even if at the pointy end of those races are the same people who are winning/placing in their respective age groups at Worlds.

I’m not disagreeing that travel is expensive:
• the USAT “official” hotel is usually very expensive, relative to other, nearby comparable options; and this kit can be used more than once
• the TYR racing kit is way overpriced for what it is (look at other, similar comparable options)—but not prohibitively so
• USAT does not dictate race entry fees (but I would bet that unseen add-ons which may be wrapped into the Active.com registration drive costs up; the race entry fees are high, but a fraction of what WTC charges for their events

But those who want to race, will find a way to make it happen.

14

i know flight/hotel costs are difficult to control (for one choose airbnb instead of hotel)… but come on USAT - do you think its right to have these excessive costs for registration and team kit? most aquathlon races are less than $100. A full kit can be had at $120. That being said, many high ranking competitive individuals do not make a lot of money wont be able to afford the $300 registration and $250 race kit, thus USA will not have good representation at world championships.

Costs in tri dilute the competition… might as well do ironman - or - 10 local competitive races at these costs

Couple of thoughts:

Cost is an issue for some - not the uniforms but the race and the fact that you have to do another one to get in and both require travel for a vast majority of the U.S population.
Timing of the event is an issue for some - wasn’t the event this year in September when kids are in School?
Qualifying locations are an issue for some - The locations have been terrible lately for both Tri and Du - Both in terms of the “desire to go to the host city” and the “cost of time and money to get there”

As for “might as well do ironman” - nope, 2 very different sports

“10 local competitive races at these costs” - I’d agree.

15

That being said, many high ranking competitive individuals do not make a lot of money wont be able to afford the $300 registration and $250 race kit…
Where’s your data to back this up?

The USAT data indicates that their membership has a median household income of $126,000.
https://www.teamusa.org/usa-triathlon/about/multisport/demographics

–
I completely disagree that one might as well do an IM or 10 local races.
Worlds is a completely different racing experience from either of these options, even if at the pointy end of those races are the same people who are winning/placing in their respective age groups at Worlds.

I’m not disagreeing that travel is expensive:
• the USAT “official” hotel is usually very expensive, relative to other, nearby comparable options; and this kit can be used more than once
• the TYR racing kit is way overpriced for what it is (look at other, similar comparable options)—but not prohibitively so
• USAT does not dictate race entry fees (but I would bet that unseen add-ons which may be wrapped into the Active.com registration drive costs up; the race entry fees are high, but a fraction of what WTC charges for their events

But those who want to race, will find a way to make it happen.

I hate that median house income stat. Just because they can afford to play doesnt mean they are top notch. Look at the many runners and swimmers in local competitions who can easily join this sport and podium. Most of them dont make much. For instance there is an xc 5k series here $15 to enter. Many runners going sub 17. Then have a $50 5k and the winner is just breaking 20 min…

16

What is your point? I know lots of very very good athletes that have zero desire to compete for various reasons. Never ever do the best at anything always compete.
So, bottom line in any sport, or business, etc., you just compete against who shows up.

17

And when it comes to tri-suits the issue is not that $250 is too high (e.g., the Kiwami LD Aero Trisuit is $379), the real issue is that for $250 you can get much better quality than USAT is providing through their sponsorship with Tyr.

The problem here is that the $250 is in addition to the kit(s) people already own. Besides, I really don’t want to be racing my local tri in my Team USA kit. One, because I may have another club/sponsor suit to wear, and two, because it can come across a little pretentious (to some).

18

And when it comes to tri-suits the issue is not that $250 is too high (e.g., the Kiwami LD Aero Trisuit is $379), the real issue is that for $250 you can get much better quality than USAT is providing through their sponsorship with Tyr.

The problem here is that the $250 is in addition to the kit(s) people already own. Besides, I really don’t want to be racing my local tri in my Team USA kit. One, because I may have another club/sponsor suit to wear, and two, because it can come across a little pretentious (to some).

I understand your pain. And because they tend to change the design every 2 to 3 years, and tell everyone that they could potentially be DQd if an old kit, then you feel obligated to update. But this still is a minor issue in the bigger scheme of things. With the 2018 ITU WC Multi-festival in Odense, Denmark and the 2019 event in Pontevedra, Spain the travel costs are the driving issue and the kit expense is simply more of an annoyance.

Here’s the sad bottomline: AG worlds is not the Olympics and the vast majority of Team USA athletes are not sponsored…local or otherwise. Anyone that seeks to qualify knows that it is a pay-to-play deal if they want to attend. If the registration costs and uniform costs are the straws that break the bank, then simply do not sign up. The one thing I really like about ITU worlds is that everyone is in a national uniform. WTC worlds has a different feel with everyone wearing whatever they want. Likewise, the WTC parade of nations looks and feels silly for the same reason, even though their races are much more competitive. At least for long course, people have the opportunity to choose; and choice is a great thing.

19

And when it comes to tri-suits the issue is not that $250 is too high (e.g., the Kiwami LD Aero Trisuit is $379), the real issue is that for $250 you can get much better quality than USAT is providing through their sponsorship with Tyr.

The problem here is that the $250 is in addition to the kit(s) people already own. Besides, I really don’t want to be racing my local tri in my Team USA kit. One, because I may have another club/sponsor suit to wear, and two, because it can come across a little pretentious (to some).

Guess I am in trouble since I have been racing my my TeamUSA gear for about 10 years.

20

Please tell me where you live that you can get 10 races of any quality for $600 so I can live there, too.