I just read Dan Empfields article on ascending. He talks about staying aero for the entire ride except for on fast descents when you need access to your brakes, or when turning. He then states that you should stay aero when climbing, as long as your cadence is 90 - 95. Where I live there are lots of hills where it’s easy to drop into the 70’s or even 60’s for rpm. My question is, is RPM the determiner for when you sit up during a climb? I don’t recall many pros in the tour climbing in the aero position? They must be on TT bikes on some climbs? Thanks for any insight!
For me I use speed as the determiner.
When I get below 17mph I come out of the bars unless there is a headwind.
jaretj
I think the problem is that if you have a reasonable drop, when you get in the basebar your hip angle opens up too much and your power takes a hit. I think the solution is to get a basebar that is sloped or to really bend your elbows when on the basebar. I like the basebar because I have wide shoulders and it feels better to switch up the position.
I tend to sit up when I run out of gears, i.e. when I can no longer shift to a lower gear I am generally not traveling very fast and thus choose to sit up for a couple of reasons. One, I want to give my neck a break from the aero position and two, the bike is much harder to ride in a straight line when you lose the gyroscopic effect of the front wheel at speed. For me this is probably at 12 mph or slower, or very steep hills. For rolling hills I stay in the aerobars and spin, spin, spin.
If your rpm is dropping into the 60-70s then you are probably overgeared, like most of the triathletes I see. Instead of the 54x42s I see quite often, most people should probably be on something more like 48x34.
Chad
I also read this article a while ago. I tend to stay aero except for really short climbs that I want to power over. For those I get out of the saddle and hammer for a few seconds. If the climb is really long (10+ minutes) I’ll get out of the saddle from time to time just to mix things up and use different muscles. Otherwise I always climb while aero. I find I loose power if I grab the base bar and sit up. Instead I’ll just choke up on the aero bars some.
At Mooseman this weekend I stayed aero the entire time except for coming out of a few sharp corners and at that one steep drop.
Victor
Good observation, I can see how that would be an issue for someone that has longer arms than mine or for someone much taller (which is just about everyone). My drop is about 3 inches yet I’m just as aero as the next guy.
See photo: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=1337469;search_string=;#1337469
On a different note, I had to really drop the bars on my MTB cuz my hip angle was open like you describe and I lost a lot of power that way.
jaretj
Wouldn’t getting on the basebar be better? Switching from your used muscles, to some fresh muscles, breathing enhanced as it wouldn’t be cramped, although a bit less aero, but you would be going ‘slower’ and not fighting wind as much as gravity.
I’ve always heard to climb aero, always did it, and now I am thinking about climbing like I want…I say this because my last TT(a road race TT) I hit a roller, slowed down to 20mph while aero. Was pushing hard, but then grabed the basebar(break hoods) and powered over easier with more power. So I’m thinking anything where the speed drops dramaticaly, say around 20mph get out of the aero. If you have evidence to convince me, let me hear it.-wink
I use cadence or speed -whichever has broken down. If I can’t pedal at a higher cadence than 80-85, I sit up or stand up and if I find that I am going under 12MPH I sit up.
I read somewhere that 12MPH was some sort of tipping point. I think sitting up at 16MPH is exposing yourself to a decent amount of wind.
In general, though I try to stay in the aerobars unless the terrain forces me out of it.
If coming out of the aero position gains you a lot of power, perhaps you aren’t riding steep enough in your aero position in the first place?
let’s see…aero position, cadence 90-95, speed over 20 mph. you must be talking about hills with grades of less than 2%, which by defination are not even hills
Got the bars as low as they can go, really won’t feel ‘comfortable’ if I go lower. Getting out of the aero position makes me way less aero, say like the drops of my road bike, but I feel I can use climbing legs instead of flat riding legs.
Not allways better on the basebar, that can be individual. I don’t really buy into the switching muscle theory that much. I’m still using my legs.
I find that while climbing and on the basebar, I can push 270 watts for an extended period of time ~10 minutes, but while in the aero position I have trouble pushing much more than 210 watts. Now for power to speed comparisons for me (remember I’m not that big) 210 watts gets me about 24-25 mph on flat ground. Now put me on a 5% grade and I’ll be doing about 12 mph. At 270 watts I’ll be going about 15mph which is still below what I would consider in need of the aero position. (yes, I am about 64.5 Kg)
So when I start going uphill and speed drops off to under 17mph I don’t really get the aero benifit anymore. It makes sense to me to sit up and climb on the base bar so that I can put out more power comfortably.
A lot of this came from experimenting with my PT and climbing. This works for me, try it on your own and get some numbers for you and have fun while riding too.
jaretj
I think the problem is that if you have a reasonable drop, when you get in the basebar your hip angle opens up too much and your power takes a hit. I think the solution is to get a basebar that is sloped or to really bend your elbows when on the basebar. I like the basebar because I have wide shoulders and it feels better to switch up the position.
Hank,
I agree with this. Over a year ago, I switched from PD bullhorns to a Vision Tech integrated design with the downward sweeping basebars. I definitely made the right move there, because when I am descending or climbing out of the aero position, my back remains almost flat and is totally flat when climbing out of the saddle. The position is nearly as aero as being in the bars and it affords me access to the brakes and some additional leverage for climbing, vs the standard bullhorns that lifted my chest into the air.
I noticed that coming out of the aero bars, on longer rides, when climbing saves my back tremendously later in the ride. If I stay aero and climb my lower back starts to trouble my by mile 30+. But by just making this simple change and coming out of the aero bars and grabbing the persuit bars I gain two things:
- Constant steady power through the climb.
- No back troubles on longer rides.
For anything below 40K I could care less. I just hammer and stay aero. 40K isn’t enough time for my back to start bothering me.
Just my personal observations.