No cover for me… I’m primarily going to be using these for road races. I expect 3-4 TT’s per season during stage races. I’d love to use a cover for these… though I’m not sure they are USAC approved at the amateur level. I’ve heard some people say they’re not… and saw one in use at the last race I was at. Going to need more research on that.
Heard good things on the Real Design wheels also.
in that case a set of cosmic carbones is the way to go. They are very durable, have an alu braking surface, are stiff and pretty area- the tim has a bulge too, but the bulge patent doesn’t cover fairings.
I race with some guys who use them all the time in crits and even training- something I would be leery of doing with zipps.
The Hed jets are similar to the cosmics in construction, not sure if they are stiffer, but they are also very very durable and you again have the alu braking surface.
Anyone have experience using a wheelcover on the Carbones (if I’m able to go that route)? I saw a pair in the LBS a few weeks ago and the carbon faring looked pretty delicate… not sure I would be comfy taping to that.
Anyone have experience using a wheelcover on the Carbones (if I’m able to go that route)? I saw a pair in the LBS a few weeks ago and the carbon faring looked pretty delicate… not sure I would be comfy taping to that.
That might be a question for wheelbuilder. The fairings themselves are just plastic; I was under the impression the newest version with the faux carbon weave was just a graphic; I don’t think the cosmic carbones have changed much in the last 15 years other than getting more expensive.
Anyone have experience using a wheelcover on the Carbones (if I’m able to go that route)? I saw a pair in the LBS a few weeks ago and the carbon faring looked pretty delicate… not sure I would be comfy taping to that.
That might be a question for wheelbuilder. The fairings themselves are just plastic; I was under the impression the newest version with the faux carbon weave was just a graphic; I don’t think the cosmic carbones have changed much in the last 15 years other than getting more expensive.
I have a new set of the Cosmic Carbone SL wheels with a Powertap. The fairing is carbon and the rim is aluminum. See below for their description of the construction that I think is a little misleading since the outer cirumference of the wheel is definitely aluminum. I am not sure what (if any) structural role the carbon component actually performs. I wanted wheels that I could use for training and racing with the Powertap, so I decided to stick with an aluminum rim for long term durability. I don’t know if I would have had a problem with all carbon rims (I actually have a set of Cosmic Carbone Ultimates I have been using with no problem for two years), but the idea of metal spokes pulled through carbon rims didn’t sound like the most durable wheelset to me. I only weigh 150 lbs., so I probably would have been fine with the Zipp 404s I was contemplating, but in the end I went with the Carbone SLs and I like them. FWIW
By the way, this is the description of the Carbone SLs from their website:
Cosmic Carbone SL features long time proven Mavic aerodynamics: 52mm deep rim, elliptical sidewalls, low count aero spokes. But weight has not been put aside with one of the lightest clincher carbon rim to significantly reduce the inertia. Yet available for any rider, road racers and triahletes !
Toroidal wheels work. Being deep is about 1/3 of the aero battle these days it seems. The other 1/3 is shape. The final 1/3 is tire selection.
All three of the above effect each other. Tire selection depends on rim shape. Wheel depth can effect the necessary shape. Some wheels are faster with a 21mm, but negligibly so, such that running a 23mm is worth it.
How much does deep matter v. shape? Well Zipp’s data shows that a Planet X 101 with a 21mm tire is faster than the older 404 but slower than the 808 by quite a bit.
A good budget wheel is probably anything that uses the Zipp/Hed patented shape. I think $500 is a little low, but $750 is probably realistic. Hed Jet 60s can be had for about that.
Is shape (toroidal) really 1/3? Seems high to me. So does tire selection when it comes to aero at least.
biktechreview has data showing the tire selection, for aeroness, is in fact quite a profound consideration (within the context of aero wheels, which some may not find profound even in their totality)
the shape is important too, they don’t tweak that curve for the fun of it =)
Is shape (toroidal) really 1/3? Seems high to me. So does tire selection when it comes to aero at least.
I just got a set of the Neuvation C50 and they really are a very nice wheelset for the $625 shipped. I used the front wheel over my H3 in a very windy and rolling TT this season and I turned a faster time then last year with my H3 also on a very windy day. And you can get a powertap wheel from Neuvation not using your hub but it may cost you less in the end and then you will have a training PT wheel and a race wheel!
I had not had a set of sewups for some time and boy are they nice!!
Dan…
Well by Zipps data a 21mm tire doesn’t make a 101mm deep wheel as fast as their 58mm wheel. It could be that tire selection and shape are probably higher.
Now, obviously we don’t know the tires or the magnitude on the left, but there is enough data on the 808 that you can fill in some possibilities(I would wager a guess of 50 grams per line starting at 0, which would match the curve of Hed’s data on the 808) and see how vast the differences are.
After seeing that, I would also encourage you to remember that the 808’s toroidal bulge is supposed to make wheels LESS sensitive to tire differences.
One thing to keep in mind is that wind flows over the wheel in three ways:
From the tire over the rim and off the “nose”/spoke bed area.
From the spoke bed/nose over the rim and then over and off the tire
Hits the tire, flows ALONG the rim and again off the tire(top and bottom portion of the rim)
Your tire is either your leading edge, your trailing edge or both. So yes, I think the tire contributes 1/3 to aerodynamics.
Also, yes I think a smart rim shape is the other 1/3. Zipp and Hed can both explain this to you, as thats what a lot of their literature is on. But in effect, the same reason tire choice is important is the same reason the toroidal shape is important. The wheel is moving through the air in one direction but in different ways depending on where the air hits it.
… ding, ding, ding! I think we have a winner. Real-Designs has a new, reasonably affordable, line of carbon clincher rims under the model line “SuperSonic”. 50mm wheelset for $799… (etc.). Definitely worth the look.
Yeah and it’s a smaller, homegrown company. Philip is completely obsessed with his product, a great racer, and a killer wrench. I have one of the first sets he ever built and they are the best wheels I have ever used (Zipp 404s, Sram S80s, Mavic Kysrium, Easton EA90).