I’m looking for feedback and demographic information for a new triathlon/cycling product that just launched on Kickstarter. It’s called the Switch Aero System, and it has two parts: a set of quick-release aerobars, and a dual position seatpost. They’re designed to let beginner and middle-of-the-pack triathletes (like me) get a better aero position on their road bikes, without sacrificing a normal road position. Full disclosure: I’m one of the creators of the product, so I have a personal (and financial) interest in the project. Here’s the link:
I know most ST members are riding tri bikes, but many of you may have started out riding road bikes (in triathlons) back in the day. I’m interested to hear the “bike evolution” histories of different triathletes. If you have a second to respond briefly to the questions below, it would be a huge help.
Questions for Slowtwitchers:
Did you started out doing triathlons on a road bike?
Did you ever try to modify your road bike (i.e., clip-on aerobars, Profile FF seatpost, etc.) for a more aero position?
How many races/seasons before you got a tri bike?
If you had both a road position and an aero position available to you (assuming an ideal fit in both positions), would you switch positions during a race?
How about during training?
road bike; 2) no; 3) one year; 4) no; 5) hell yes! :O)
Your product will be very attractive for the masses. It will receive scorn comments from some others also. All major breakthroughs or innovations started just like that I guess. Good luck!
Clever idea. In addition to triathletes, you should get on some of the USAC road race oriented sites. A lot of amateur racers don’t own a dedicated TT bike for the half a dozen TTs each season including stage race time trials. If you’re product is solid in all positions (i.e. no weird wobbles from the parallelogram seat shifter and reliable and repeatable height and setback shifting each time you move it forward or backwards) and the quick release clamps on the extensions don’t get in the way too much for a bar top hand position you could sell quite a few to the road racing crowd.
Does the seat shifter have vertical as well as custom tilt adjustment between the steep and shallow angle positions. IOW, how much can a user dial in the seat height between both positions without having to adjust the entire seatpost at the normal seatpost clamp?
not exactly, for people who chose to have 1 all in one bike, this looks like a less painful way to do it, cool. I would never make that choice. But, the seatpost could be pretty interesting for bike racers. Flip it forward for crits where you are going to be in the drops all day, or for road bike TTs in stage races, or maybe even on the move in a road race if you get in a breakaway move and will be drilling it in the drops for an hour or more.
I started out on a road bike
My road bike had PD clip-ons
1season before tribike
If I had both positions, I would not race with both(aero only for a race), but I may be inclined to have this for my trainer roadbike. I like to do group rides and I have to ride my tri-bike in non-aero, and thus pretty uncomfortable.
It would be nice to have a road bike for training that I can have an aero position on the road, but when on the trainer, sit in a standard position. Being able to switch would allow me to work some time in aero(building stamina in the neck, etc…) but not have to fiddle with the bike.
Of course id rather have 2 bikes but thats the $ difference!
Dave - Interesting idea. I hadn’t considered the TT market that closely. My understanding is that most TT events (including USAC events) are governed by UCI equipment rules (please correct me if I’m wrong here). We have official confirmation from USA Triathlon that the seatpost and bars are legal for competition in triathlons, but getting UCI approval seems … difficult (maybe impossible would be a better word?). Maybe it would be worth pursuing anyway if there’s enough of a TT market.
Right now, the seatpost doesn’t have “height adjustment” separate from the adjustment at the seat tube clamp. It is designed so that the BB to saddle distance remains essentially constant in both positions, which we found to suit the majority of riders. We experimented with more complicated mechanisms that allowed you to adjust the BB to saddle height separately in the forward and rear positions, but it was so complicated to adjust that we thought most people in our target demographic would be completely mystified by the process. So for this version, only saddle tilt is adjustable in the forward vs. rear position (IOW, compared to the saddle tilt in the road position, which you set at the saddle rails like any standard seatpost, you can choose 0 to 5° of additional forward tilt in the aero position).
Good idea/product, looks solid and simple. I’d get one once I get a new road bike.
Did you started out doing triathlons on a road bike?
Yes.
Did you ever try to modify your road bike (i.e., clip-on aerobars, Profile FF seatpost, etc.) for a more aero position?
Yes.
How many races/seasons before you got a tri bike?
Got one after two years or training and racing.
If you had both a road position and an aero position available to you (assuming an ideal fit in both positions), would you switch positions during a race?
Not sure about during a ride, but if the distance is long and switching is easy, and allowed, then maybe.
yes, both clip-ons (that I still use on my tri bike!) and a FF seatpost
1 season
I don’t do any sort of races on my road bike, only tris and TTs on my tri bike, so having a forward position on my road bike is not really useful. And your seatpost won’t work on my tri bike, which is the only situation I think it would be useful for me (to get a more rearward position for climbing).
Did you started out doing triathlons on a road bike?
No.
Did you ever try to modify your road bike (i.e., clip-on aerobars, Profile FF seatpost, etc.) for a more aero position?
I tried this for time trail racing when I was solely a bike racer and it was a bad idea. Always a compromise.
How many races/seasons before you got a tri bike? n/a
If you had both a road position and an aero position available to you (assuming an ideal fit in both positions), would you switch positions during a race?
No. The aero position for tri is good for about 95 percent of the riding in a typical triathlon. The other five percent you can just sit up, use the base bar and be just fine.
How about during training?
I have two bikes so this is not an issue. If I had one bike, then I would probably only modify the position for days when I go looking for big mountains to climb and I want a more stable descending position, i.e. not so high up and far forwardas the tri bike. Climbing in the tri position is not an issue. Descending down twisty mountain roads when riding past 80 degrees can be a bit scary.
**How is your product different than what is already out there? **
Aging age grouper with many sprints and oly’s and a couple of halfs over the past 6 or 7 years. Biking is my strong leg and I started on a road bike, then added a pair of clip-ons with a shape I did not like, and picked up a tri bike after a couple of seasons. But in my locale (northeast) the short course races tend toward hilly and twisty so I sold the tri bike after two seasons; I didn’t feel like it offered much more speed than my road bike, and I just preferred the handling and control of my road bike, especially on twisty courses. So I put that money toward aero wheels and a new set of S-bend clipons for the road bike that are much more comfortable.
Only downside with the current setup is exactly what you’re trying to address with your kickstarter project, namely:
1 - QR aerobars. Once I’ve bolted on my clip-ons and adjusted them to the “just right” angle I really don’t like taking them off for the season, but there are some group rides where the roadies are very negative about aero bars. QR would speed the on/off and ease the adjustments.
2- seatpost - my bike has a steep seat angle, but the fit was optimized for road riding, and I’ve never gotten it fitted specifically for triathlon and no doubt it should be brought forward. On the other hand I’d never consider switching positions during a race, or training. So with an extra saddle on my parts shelf I might be more inclined to get a profile “fast forward” seatpost and just switch out posts and seats for road and tri riding. But I could see using your dual position post for simplicity’s sake - and also because again, once the post height is set just right, it’s nice to just leave it there.
Dave - Interesting idea. I hadn’t considered the TT market that closely. My understanding is that most TT events (including USAC events) are governed by UCI equipment rules (please correct me if I’m wrong here)…
Actually in the US, very few annual events are held under strict UCI rules. The USAC rules do derive from UCI rules but unless you’re racing nationals or NRC events(a handful of events each year and for elite riders only) it is almost unheard of for races to be held under strict UCI equipment rules or for that matter for any equipment checks at all to occur. I don’t see how either of your designs would be a problem under USAC rules, the clip on bars in particular are a design variant on an accepted design and seat posts are already designed to be adjustable (almost every TT bike sold supports two or more seat angle positioning options, your design is not a huge variation from that concept).
I’ve coached and been a team mate to a number of Cat 5, 4, and even Cat 3 racers that do not own a dedicated TT bike and slap clip on aero bars on for TTs. Some own a second fast forward style seatpost usually mounted with a separate saddle but the big downside is that it’s enough of a PITA to swap back and forth that they don’t tend to train much in their TT position. That’s a pretty big negative when they lack confidence to corner in the aero bars or lose too much power on race day for lack of training in their best aero position. Your product is a nice solution to that assuming there’s limited downside to having the seat post and quick release bar clamps on the bike during normal road riding and racing situations.
If your clamps weighed a ton (not that weight really matters that much, but racers tend to be very weight conscious) or they don’t reliably return to the same positions or rattle or are otherwise noticeable then that might be a deal breaker but if they’re innocuous during normal riding and allow a quick change to TT positioning you could have a winner for many amateur road racers.
Love that dual position seat post! But if you are really serious about experimenting with seat position(I have not seen anyone who is,yet) then try the following. After you have the usual fitting RAISE your seat at least an inch then slide it forward(you might not have to do that with the forward setting on the post)and SLANT IT DOWN as much as you can! Get on the bike and you will GO FASTER! You have transformed your bike form a rear engine VW to a mid engine Porsche! You will probably want to lower the bars too. If I were you I would demonstrate the seatpost with this setting. They WILL buy the post because they are going FASTER!
Love that dual position seat post! But if you are really serious about experimenting with seat position(I have not seen anyone who is,yet) then try the following. After you have the usual fitting RAISE your seat at least an inch then slide it forward(you might not have to do that with the forward setting on the post)and SLANT IT DOWN as much as you can! Get on the bike and you will GO FASTER! You have transformed your bike form a rear engine VW to a mid engine Porsche! You will probably want to lower the bars too. If I were you I would demonstrate the seatpost with thi setting. They WILL buy the post because they are going FASTER!
Great to know. Thanks for the information - I’ll definitely look into how to spread the work within the bike racing (TT) community. The base handlebar clamps are 80g per pair, so some weight conscious riders might balk at having them on all the time, but for most riders, I think it’s pretty negligible. If you have any thoughts on other forums or publications where we should try to post, please let me know.
@GatorRacer - “Being able to switch would allow me to work some time in aero (building stamina in the neck, etc…) but not have to fiddle with the bike.” This was my problem exactly. I wanted to train myself to ride efficiently in aero, but switching back and forth was way too time consuming. I ended up just never riding in aero except for races, which made for some uncomfortable adjustments on race day and broke the cardinal rule of “never do anything new on race day”. The dual-position seatpost makes it a lot easier to train how you race.
@cdw - “I tried this for time trial racing when I was solely a bike racer and it was a bad idea. Always a compromise.” Anything specific that you disliked about it? Handling too twitchy or just couldn’t hit your correct aero position? We think the product is pretty different than existing products on the market - did you get a chance to check out the link in the original post? I don’t know of any other quick release aerobars or on-the-fly adjustable seatposts.
@ts01 - You’re our target customer! You just described two great reasons to back our project :). One question: do you feel comfortable riding in aero without a forward positioned seatpost? Ever feel like your hip angle is too closed? I’m assuming you’re riding full-length pursuit-style aerobars, not shorties.
@EH - “…well actually a mountain bike for the first year” - Funny, at the last race I went to, I saw a guy riding a full-suspension mountain bike for an olympic distance race. The best part was he came back into transition ahead of a lot of riders on fancy race rigs.
One more general question - for all of you who do longer (HIM, IM) races, what percentage of the time are you riding in aero vs on the bullhorns? Anyone with a power meter have an idea how much your speed drops for a given wattage when you sit up (I realize it will vary for different people/wattages/etc., but it would be interesting to get a rough idea)?
@ts01 - You’re our target customer! You just described two great reasons to back our project :). One question: do you feel comfortable riding in aero without a forward positioned seatpost? Ever feel like your hip angle is too closed? I’m assuming you’re riding full-length pursuit-style aerobars, not shorties. …
One more general question - for all of you who do longer (HIM, IM) races, what percentage of the time are you riding in aero vs on the bullhorns? Anyone with a power meter have an idea how much your speed drops for a given wattage when you sit up (I realize it will vary for different people/wattages/etc., but it would be interesting to get a rough idea)?
Totally comfortable on (full-length) aero bars. My seat is far forward on a straight / no setback seatpost with a steep seat angle frame so I might be forward of an ideal road position; lots of weight on the bars and I’ll get numb hands after 20 miles or so if I don’t use aero bars.
And FWIW, on the few longer races I’ve done (HIM), I’d say >70% on the aero bars.
It would be good if the elbow pads on the clip ons were as low as possible.
I have 10cm drop on my road bike and 13cm on my TT bike. If I was using your clip ons on my road bike the drop would only be 6 or 7cm which is quite different to want I would want.