Seeking suggestions to get more aero for the big dance.
My position is from a Retul fit.
I know the dual bottle option at the back isn’t great but I need 2 back there for my nutrition.
Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
Thanks
*Edit - should I use the skinsuit in the pic at Kona (would need to try and get it over the shoulders after the swim or go with a sleeveless suit??
Ultimately you probably want to work on getting the front end lower as you’re sitting up a bit. And I realise it’s a static photo, but based on the photo I think you would better off with a helmet with a shorter tail, I think a long pointy helmet like yours works best for people with a low, flat back profile. Based on your position a mid length tail might be best, something like a Giro Advantage. I think the new generation of stubby helmets suit people who ride low with their head down (not you).
Ultimately you probably want to work on getting the front end lower as you’re sitting up a bit. And I realise it’s a static photo, but based on the photo I think you would better off with a helmet with a shorter tail, I think a long pointy helmet like yours works best for people with a low, flat back profile. Based on your position a mid length tail might be best, something like a Giro Advantage. I think the new generation of stubby helmets suit people who ride low with their head down (not you).
Thanks Nick
I think I can get the base bar down a bit and have slighly smaller risers so migh even play with that too.
Yeah, the helmet doesn’t seem to fit my position real well… I was trying to get away without spending more $$ on another but might have to for the sake of aero!
That image looks like Cairns?
Hard to base much for kona on the cairns race ie set up and kit…
Had the sun come out perhaps…
May I suggest a wider forearm position that allows a bta bottle between, then a single rear… Then an aero bottle in the frame for your fuel… A wider fore arm may make your leverage (width ways) over the front better which may be useful for the x winds… Ie you will have more side to side leverage effectively a wider base to the triangle…mic you get my meaning…
Good luck in kona whatever you elect…
SS, yes
Get a new helmet
Get ski bent bars
Get a little lower in the front
Get rid of the stuff in your back pocket
Get rid of the rear bottles (use what available on course)
Get you head down, think turtle…look at your front wheel most of the time.
One last thing, you look like you’ve got wide shoulders. Sometime its faster to widen your bars and let the air flow around (and through) your arms. For me it drop 170gr with 5cm and can breath a little better too.
That’s it…kill it on Kona
I’ll second some other opinions.
Different helmet
Go a tad lower in front and maybe choke up a little
Ditch the crap in your back pocket
Go to one rear bottle tight to the seat… or even a single downtube bottle might be more aero that 2 rear bottles.
get a little bag for under the seat for your flat kit if one bottle is your kit.
I’ll second some other opinions.
Go a tad lower in front and maybe choke up a little
I’d disagree on the “choke up” reco. It looks to me like his upper arms are already at a less than 90 degree angle to his torso, plus his elbows are well behind the arm pads. I’d do just the opposite. But then again, a really choked up position seems to be politically correct around here, I ride with a slightly larger than 90 degree angle between my upper arms and torso and have no problem maintaining it comfortably for 5 hour rides. I’d move the extensions out a couple of centimeters which would give more room to vary the position depending on terrain and support the arms closer to the elbow.
I wouldn’t sweat the helmet too much. It might not “look” aero but the Spiuk can be a very fast helmet. Try to rotate your pelvis a bit more forward (like trying to point your belt buckle… if you were wearing one… at the bottom bracket) and drop the front end a bit. I forget… does the P4 have top tube bosses? If so, maybe run an aero bottle up there and ditch one of the rear bottles with a cage zip-tied at a 45degree angle under your seat.
With all the drafting in Kona… you won’t need a skinsuit.
But in all seriousness… congrats on making it, I’m just jealous.
As for aero… I question if two bottles on the frame might be faster than behind the seat. Or two aero bottles on the frame.
The more retul fits i see lately the less impressed I am by Retul fitters.
Hard to tell on the skin suit without a better pic of the shoulder area while in the aero position.
There is a reason wind tunnels exist.
Other than the eliminating the rear bottles, most of the other suggestions are just guess work.
Almost impossible to say if you’d be more or less aero.
I’ve seen people here do some aero testing with a power meter on a track or on a known course. See link below. Although not sure what the power of those tests are to detect differences in drag.
Here is the link: http://www.cyclingpowerlab.com/cyclingaerodynamics.aspx
The more retul fits i see lately the less impressed I am by Retul fitters.
Hard to tell on the skin suit without a better pic of the shoulder area while in the aero position.
Brian-
Seems a lot of people are saying to NOT run a bottle behind the saddle on this thread yet it seems that Cervelos wind tunnel data says otherwise? (http://www.cervelo.com/en/engineering/ask-the-engineers/hydration-and-aerodynamics.html)
“Conclusion So what did we learn from all of these tests? The big lesson was that a bottle mounted horizontally between your arms (but it must be between your arms, not too high or low) makes you faster- faster than no bottle at all! That should probably be your first choice for regular drinking. The aerodynamics of this position combined with the fact that it is always in front of you reminding you to drink makes it a great choice. The Cervélo P4 integrated bottle or a behind the saddle system is the next most aero choice and both of those are excellent options for storage of spares and other equipment as well. If you have a P4, please come by the Cervélo booth at Kona for free P4 bottle. Cut it open for storage, or continue to drink from it, but either way keep taking advantage of this design! One final nugget is that we found that a Bento Box behind the stem was a solution that had no drag penalty. However, this may depend on stem & spacer details and how many gels and bars you stuff into it. We all need hydration and we all have preferences, so we hope that regardless of which set up you favour, this article will help you maximize your triathlon performance”
Am I misunderstanding this article?
**Conclusion **
So what did we learn from all of these tests? The big lesson was that a bottle mounted horizontally between your arms (but it must be between your arms, not too high or low) makes you faster- faster than no bottle at all! That should probably be your first choice for regular drinking. The aerodynamics of this position combined with the fact that it is always in front of you reminding you to drink makes it a great choice. The Cervélo P4 integrated bottle or a behind the saddle system is the next most aero choice and both of those are excellent options for storage of spares and other equipment as well. If you have a P4, please come by the Cervélo booth at Kona for free P4 bottle. Cut it open for storage, or continue to drink from it, but either way keep taking advantage of this design!
One final nugget is that we found that a Bento Box behind the stem was a solution that had no drag penalty. However, this may depend on stem & spacer details and how many gels and bars you stuff into it.
We all need hydration and we all have preferences, so we hope that regardless of which set up you favour, this article will help you maximize your triathlon performance. Good luck and Mahalo.
I think the ‘eyeball test’ is hard on rear bottles so people tend to recommend against them. I’ve been aware of that Cervelo article since around the time that they posted it, but I never ran a rear bottle because it looks like such a parachute back there. I tested a double bottle setup very similar to the OP’s in the wind tunnel a few months ago and saw very little difference compared to having nothing behind the saddle. It was a 2 watt penalty at 0 yaw and a 1 watt improvement at 10 degrees. A single bottle on the downtube was a 5 watt penalty. I have the bottles jammed up against the back of the saddle, but I’m riding an Adamo Prologue so I still have a pretty sizable gap between my body and the bottles.
Most aero improvements are specific to the rider and their position, but the body blocks a lot of space right there at the saddle. I would think bottles behind the saddle are safer options than the downtube for most people. Brian has a lot more experience with aerodynamic testing than I do though. He can probably offer more insight…
RE: bottle behind the seat. Flip a coin, hope it turns out the way you want it to.