I would think that Pog is on 165s for his TT bike and…this actually looks very much like a tri position to me. Remco would be…unsustainable for triathlon I would think. I would think that if rules were relaxed you would see some look very similar and others completely modify (Ganna’s forearms are the only part on his bars.
Just some food for thought
This is partially answered by seeing almost every WT setup being at the limits of the rules. 5cm setback is where most saddles are set. Reach is at the maximum. Arm angle at the maximum.
I reckon hip angle may have more to do with road bike crossover than anything else. Even Ganna has to spend 90% of his time on a road bike.
Monty here is Lance in the Bermuda Intl Tri with Pigg and Allen
I’m very much a “hack in the back” finisher. I just did IMAZ a couple weeks ago and I knew going in I would never be competitive, even in age group. But one thing that became apparent just reviewing and comparing my photos on the bike to other riders is that I’m far too high and open. This was huge on the Bee Line as the down hill section should be really fast, but with a roughly 20mph head wind, I was struggling to just maintain 15mph. And even that gassed me. Were it not for the wind, I’m certain I would have finished the bike more than 30 minutes earlier, and with gas in the tank for the run.
I would really like to get my position sorted out. I did have a bike fit earlier this year but I was seriously disappointed with it. I felt like I spent a lot of money and got almost no useful information from it. I’m tempted to try a fit with another fitter, but I also wonder if it’s worth it. Now that I’ve finished a 140.6, I can mark that off my bucket list, and I have no desire for any more long distance courses. Not so much because of the bike, but because my knees are shot and just can’t take longer runs.
This article and the related photos are a great way to review and understand what lots of the modern set-up changes are trying to balance.
Was an article like this ever done for the Women’s WC field?
I tried searching the site, but couldn’t see anything - not sure if it’s my search skills or it’s just not there.
I was also wondering if they deliberately excluded all women’s pros. I missed seeing their positions. I know there were some dustups this year about what different bike companies could accommodate, some innovations mentioned in some pre-WC media, as well as the Jackie Hering feature.
I’m not sure they were in Nice for the race, and therefore don’t have all those pictures available?
I recall them featuring the bikes from Nice WC, and best photos of the day. But who knows? Maybe no one thought about it.
I believe some of the management at ST were in Nice and they featured a decent amount of coverage of the race, however, Nice is not a great course to get the “ultimate aero shots” unless you can grab them on the Promenade des Anglais probably out by the airport on the way out of the way back in. The rest is kind of on an incline to get the real aero shots (you need to get the images on the flats to get the geometry properly visualized for this reader audience). Kona probably has 30 locations where you can grab perfect shots.
Also with course closure in Nice it is impossible to get out there. I believe for Kona the road is open to get to the airport and you can have a photographer just jump out from the airport to get to the side of the road and Voila you have the perfect shot.
I am number 1 fan of women’s pro tri, so take this as me trying to explain my personal view of the difficulty in getting the shots on race day knowing the dynamics of each course and closures etc.
Thanks for the added context, that makes sense. Shots on the basebars, cornering, not great for aero assessment. 
Next year! (or…Taupo?)
Part of it boils down to Mat was not fully on board with us until Kona. Part of it is photography for these types of shots.
In due time…
@rrheisler is Kevin McKinnon going to be in Taupo ? That course may have good opportunity for shots of the women’s field, but hard to know if it is possible to “get out there” with road closures!!!
I am not 100% certain of @Ironmandad’s schedule.
Kona is always the “easiest” to execute these types of stories on – it’s a known quantity for just about everyone, and there’s a certain amount of expectation that everyone will have their positions and equipment dialed for that race.
Let’s talk. I’m working on putting together an AeroCamp here in Tucson.
We can work in some on your bike bike fitting prior to testing. I did this for numerous pro’s and AG athletes last year.
We can dial your fit in, make you more comfy and make you more aero all in an afternoon.
PM me your email address.
Hey guys, I will be in Taupo, but not certain what my access to the course will be like! I’ll certainly do what I can!
That is the best Kona bike position review yet. I especially like the disclaimer regarding photo inaccuracy.
I agree that too-long can be problematic, similar to too-narrow, and this is supported by SmO2 and metabolic testing.
Amazing that it has taken this long for Kona positions to get more relaxed.
Clearly, this shift is not hurting performance.
Fitters, what is the benefit of riding steeper? Is there more power to be found when you are in front of the bottom bracket? Or does it open up the hip angle for more comfort?
What is a common level of pad stack vs saddle height for these pros or high level age grouper fits?
This article sparked my curiosity in tinkering with my fit. I was fitted by a professional fitter and am very comfortable. However, at 5.5cm behind the bottom bracket I want to try sliding forward. I also have my elbow pads at -45mm below my saddle height but I believe I should experiment with lowering the front and to look for CdA improvements. Thoughts?
Couple of advantages, well potential advantages.
Moving forward allows you to open the hip angle. as does increasing saddle height. As you move forward you will need to move the saddle up. Move forward, test it out THEN move the saddle up if you don’t like where you land. Don’t do both at the same time.
The is evidence, iirc, that people tend to run a bit better off of steeper angles.
Any power gain is incidental. I’m always fitting people w/a focus on comfort and sustainability aka how long can someone hold that position then thinking about how does position shape aerodynamics.
After you slide forward THEN you can tinker with reach and stack.
As for common height IDK if there is a common height. I’ve seen pros with 6-7cm drop and pros with 17.5cm of drop. AG athletes with 6-7cm stack and 17.5cm of stack. Do what’s comfy for you, not what a pro is doing.
I was talking with a pro I aero tested. Before testing I was hey why did you do this or that. Their answer: Becuase pro X did it and I know they tested it multiple times. They were shocked/sad/confused when a more traditional looking position was ~ .012 CdA faster.
I’m putting together an east coast bike fitting and aero testing trip (NJ, NY and maybe NC) in May and might be in St. G the day before the 70.3 testing a pro. I could probably do a fit that day and/or a second aero test. If you’re in those areas and want to get a fit or test lmk. Happy to work you in
Brian already gave you a very good starting point. The question is ‘ steeper then what’…
Steeper can mean moving from 75/76 degrees to 78/79 or from 78/79 to 82 degrees.
Going from 75/76 to 78/79 is not the same as going to something like 81/82 degrees.
And what real seat angle it is you are sitting, how long your saddle is, etc.
5.5 cm behind bb by itself doesn’t say that much. I ride a very short saddle, 22-23 cm long and due to a almost production ready prototype bike I’m riding I can now sit as forward on the saddle, which was impossible due to the lack of reach on previous bikes. So my saddle sits at 5 cm behind bb also because the saddle is so short but my virtual seat angle is much steeper.
What works for one doesn’t neccessary works for you.
Jeroen
+1
How steep someone is riding is really the angle from the hip to the pedal axle at BDC (or something close). The saddle position creates the range the rider can move within; some will ride way out on the nose, some shifted further back. Example: last night I moved my saddle forward 2cm; not with the goal of changing my position, but to get more of the saddle under me in the position I’m currently riding.
Brian please weigh in; I’m assuming that your recommendation to move the saddle fore/aft first, then adjust height is because the rider will likely sit on a different part of the saddle after the first adjustment.
