I was reading through the Matt Fitzgerald article in the new Triathlete magazine “When Too Much Is Just enough”. In it he references “a sort of gray zone between training progressively, well within one’s adaptive limits, and overtraining”. Putting aside the point of the article which was overreaching correctly, I’m curious how an individual athlete can determine his/her own “adaptive limits” for each discipline. I use WKO+ to log and analyze my rides and runs but I’m never really sure how to use the data to know how much to push myself in my next session or when to dial it back. Usually I just see how my body feels that day and adjust from there. Is there a more scientific way to determine how quickly my body adapts to training stress? How does risidual fatigue from other sports effect this analysis?
I’m curious how an individual athlete can determine his/her own “adaptive limits” for each discipline…Usually I just see how my body feels that day and adjust from there. Is there a more scientific way to determine how quickly my body adapts to training stress?
Funny, that's one of the best questions I've seen on here in quite a while--but people would obviously rather talk about Lance, the UCI and drafting...
While some folks try to formulate complex mathematical ‘scientific’ schemes to proscribe training, I’d say you have it right.
I think the method people actually use is to keep increasing overall training load until something breaks.
then back off, and start again.
If you ramp up the load slow you can usually mitigate how bad the “break” is. Maybe its a mild cold instead of a nasty flue, or a sore foot instead of a stress fracture.
There’s so many ways to overtrain…immune system, mind, bones, muscles, tendons, that no one thing will tell you what you limit is.
When I’ve done too much too soon I have gotten sick, or sore somewhere. You have to have the discipline to take some days off when that happens to avoid the serious problems.
i was much more effective at this with rowing (both in my training and the people i do/have coached), but getting there with triathlon.
i would/do watch times in training/racing, ect, and (more so with rowing), as we would build up, times would stay the same for workouts, then eventully with the training load actually start to get a bit slower, this was my cue to back off for a few days, then up again. this would fall every 3-4 weeks indoors and every 5-6 outdoors.
with traiathlon, like jackmot said, i tend to go and keep slowly upping parts of the training until i have a few days of poor training, (tired, sore, things not feeling right, ect) then back off for a few days of easier work/ a day off. it is pretty regular for me everything 4th-5th week needs ot be easier.
I think that you are on the right track re: listening to your body and it will tell you when enough is enough. If we do not listen and ‘push through’ like we typically wish to do… that is when injury or even worse OTS (Over Training Syndrome) begins… believe me, you do not want to get to that point! Personal experience, research and working with others who have done it has told me that.
Where one who replied mentioned “waiting until something breaks,” I would counter that and say that if something breaks you are too late. Instead, your body will give you signals as to how much is too much on a regular basis. For example: with the advent of Power meters one can determine if they are shelled or not rather easily. Using pace with “Easy” running or even on the track will also let you know. Being way “off” of your interval paces in the pool are also great indicators of performance decriments and the need for relative rest (active recovery) to allow for “super compensation.” Where so many triathletes go wrong is pushing through barriers/signals that are present daily/weekly/monthly… As you may have noticed in early january did you notice how many injury questions were posted? An S-Ton daily. Most did not listen to the signals the body sent and now many are no longer able to train due to the injury. So, Power on the bike and pace on the run and swim are quantitative data that one can look at to see about the need for recovery but we also have to think about other markers…
POMS (Perception Of Mood Status) is a method to determine this sort of thing. at the OTC (atleast in the past) many have used this to determine how shelled the athlete is before they go overboard with the day’s training. other mental markers are depression, lacking the drive to train, inability to fall asleep quickly even when tired (symptom of over-REACHING… where as OTS symptoms will include falling asleep rather fast but waking up still feeling fatigued) and irritability above and beyond the typical for an anal retentive type-A personality triathlete :).
THe best athletes just “know” when things need to be re-evaluated and training volumes/intensities (loads) need to be altered.
Are you using the Performance Manager Chart in WKO? That is a great tool, lending some objectivity to what is ultimately a subjective subject.
I am and it worked great when I was only cycling but seems insufficient for multisport purposes for this since it doesn’t account for risidual fatigue from the other sports.
inability to fall asleep quickly even when tired (symptom of over-REACHING… )
What is the definition of over-reaching, as opposed to over-training?
I have had the symptom you described once in a while, after a particularly hard workout. Usually there’s an elevated heart rate too. No long-term effects that I can see, because usually the next day will be just a swim or an easy run.
I am and it worked great when I was only cycling but seems insufficient for multisport purposes for this since it doesn’t account for risidual fatigue from the other sports.
Sure it does. Create a PMC including your runs and swims.
I think the method people actually use is to keep increasing overall training load until something breaks.
Or find a basic template for a week that you can handle, keep repeating.
I’ll look into that but what I have now only lets me toggle between the two sports. I haven’t used WKO+ for swimming since I don’t wear a HR monitor in the pool and keeping track of my pacing while swimming seems to over complicate it.
POMS, hee hee, lookit how close those are to PMS letter wise.
Good answer, Eric.
What is the definition of over-reaching, as opposed to over-training?
I haven’t a textbook handy. But, over-reaching is a desirable state in some cases. Over reaching + recovery from it = improved fitness.
Over-training results in decreased performance.
Over-reaching has been defined (essentially) as “Sympathetic Overtraining” meaning: the sympathetic nervous system is being taxed above and beyond personal limits and the signs and symptoms of it include elevated HR, increased blood pressure, agitation, excitability (above and beyond the norm), inability to fall asleep easily, restlessness, performance decrements all essentially a result of elevated catecholamines and cortizol.
Overtraining Syndrome has been defined as "parasympathetic ovetraining’ mimicking chronic fatigue: depressed HR, depressed Bp (at times), weight gain (body fat increase despite training), depressed mood, always “tired”/fatigued even with sleep, decreases in performance markers despite working ‘hard’ during training, muscle soreness above and beyond the norm and depression (clinical in some cases) all of which stemming from a chronic state of over-reaching.
Obviously, each individual will present with a combination of the above S/Sx’s rather than having them all at one time. Some recover faster than others especially re: over-reaching but once an individual reaches the OTS state… get ready for a long haul… took me about 4 years to dig out of my hole! ERIK
Who are you? Gordo? is that you? 
Nice! always bringing some comic relief to us stuffed shirts!
I think the method people actually use is to keep increasing overall training load until something breaks.
Or find a basic template for a week that you can handle, keep repeating.
After a while you will be able to handle more
.
Experience.
You will make smaller gains if you rest as soon as your interval pace plateaus or goes down, you need to stress a little more. How much more is most often determined by the athletes feeling. You can also look at monitoring morning heart rates. There has been some work done in the past few years to analyse waking heart rate using a beat-to-beat monitor that can determine how stressed your body is.
Right, but a lot of these type of approaches only address one way of over training. There are still stress fractures, and other over use injuries that can set you back. Some of those might not always give you warning.
Experience.
You will make smaller gains if you rest as soon as your interval pace plateaus or goes down, you need to stress a little more. How much more is most often determined by the athletes feeling. You can also look at monitoring morning heart rates. There has been some work done in the past few years to analyse waking heart rate using a beat-to-beat monitor that can determine how stressed your body is.
while having a good weekly routine helps, repeating the same week over and over will not make you faster. Only by gradually increasing the stress each week and then resting occasionally to consolidate gains will you get faster.