Here is an article about an Acorn worker being indicted on voter fraud.
You say: You don’t seem to get it. ACORN is not responsible for voter fraud.
Why would I trust anything this organization does? They sign up voters illegally. Nobody checks your id when you vote. Spin it however you want but they are crooked.
http://www.foxnews.com/...d-role-acorn-census/
There are several things that come to mind in regard to this unfortunate and disturbing news:
"The U.S. Census is supposed to be free of politics, but one group with a history of voter fraud, ACORN, is participating in next year’s count, raising concerns about the politicization of the decennial survey.
The Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now signed on as a national partner with the U.S. Census Bureau in February 2009 to assist with the recruitment of the 1.4 million temporary workers needed to go door-to-door to count every person in the United States – currently believed to be more than 306 million people."
It looks like ACORN signed up through this program:
http://2010.census.gov/2010census/more_information/007657.html
So it’s open to any community organization. And the same partnership program was run in 2000.
If you open the PDF fact sheet for “Community and Social Service Organization,” you will see that in 2000 more than 140,000 organizations took part.
If you’re worried that there are secret back room things going on, fear not, your GAO is on the ball (http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d01579.pdf). They reviewed the partnership program in 2000, found some not-all-that-frightening problems, and recommended some best practices. Overall they concluded that the program made the census far more effective than it otherwise would have been.
If you want the government to retain full control of the census to eliminate any possibility of fraud, then please open your check book and be prepared to fully fund the U.S. Census Bureau and expand the size of Federal government by thousands.
If you’re afraid of the Great Black Menace that is ACORN, then the Web site is there. Have your local church, triathlon club, or whatever join up and take an active role in your government.
When you are paying someone to do work and they do so fraudulently, the employer is the victim, yes. ACORN, as an organization, is not being indicted and they are the ones that are turning these people in, in many instances.
Here is an article about an Acorn worker being indicted on voter fraud.
http://www.stltoday.com/…-registration-drive/
You say: You don’t seem to get it. ACORN is not responsible for voter fraud.
Why would I trust anything this organization does? They sign up voters illegally. Nobody checks your id when you vote. Spin it however you want but they are crooked.
Tim, did you read that article?
There is no indication from Hanaway’s announcement that any of the “voters” registered by Humphrey — including forged cards bearing the names of nursing home residences — participated in the November election.
Did you read the article that is linked, in which the actual charge is given?
A voter registration recruiter working for the group ACORN has been indicted on two felony counts of voter registration fraud.
No voter fraud. Voter registration fraud. Do you understand the difference? Also, note the phrase “recruiter working for the group ACORN”: this is exactly as I described: not ACORN, but some contracted worker who is a crook. If you think that ACORN seeks out crooks, then your tinfoil hat is a bit too tight.
ACORN seems to do a very good job of finding crooks without trying. It is curious how an organization you support gets a pass when the people it hires act in a criminal fashion on a widespread and fairly regular basis. I guess you don’t think it is necessary for them to properly screen, train and supervise the people they ask and pay to work on their behalf? As I recall, you and others don’t apply that same standard to Republican administrations or candidates.
ACORN seems to do a very good job of finding crooks without trying. It is curious how an organization you support gets a pass when the people it hires act in a criminal fashion on a widespread and fairly regular basis. I guess you don’t think it is necessary for them to properly screen, train and supervise the people they ask and pay to work on their behalf? As I recall, you and others don’t apply that same standard to Republican administrations or candidates.
You can’t screen for this. Are you serious? I’m guessing ACORN might have contracted with tens of thousands of workers. I’ll guess that fewer than 50 were involved in fraud. “Widespread and fairly regular basis?” Please.
And you are comparing voter registration contractors to administrations and candidates? Try to bring some real arguments next time.
Your partisanship is showing.
Of course they can screen and train and supervise people. It is not like elections are a surprise. There is no oops, forgot we need to register people for the election. Give me a break. ACORN is as complicit as they come unless, of course, you agree with their politics.
Your partisanship is showing.
Of course they can screen and train and supervise people. It is not like elections are a surprise. There is no oops, forgot we need to register people for the election. Give me a break. ACORN is as complicit as they come unless, of course, you agree with their politics.
So we’ve upped our game to ad hominem?
How do you supervise people in the field? Why bother hiring anyone in the first place, when you are just going to shadow them with supervisors the whole time?
For the final time: when a hired voter registration worker submits a voter registration form, the law requires that it be turned in to voter registrars. Period.
The purpose of the frauds that did occur was to make money for the voter registration workers, not to commit voter fraud.
This is my last post on this subject, unless you can come up with anything that is an actual argument.
Ken, I would respectfully also request that you read what I am actually saying. I didn’t say the employees were indicted for voter fraud. It was registration fraud and there are many cases of that. Now, if there is registration fraud and no id checks of voters, how can you tell me there is no voter fraud?
Why is Acorn such a sacred cow of the left?
Why can’t voters simply go down to the county and register if they want to vote, then show an ID when the show up at the poll?
“They” do not. Individuals, more akin to independent contractors, get paid by ACORN to provide voter registrations. Said individuals, attempting to get paid without actually doing the work, get fraudulent info, are being turned in by ACORN and ACORN assists in flagging the fraudulent voter registration forms.
EDITED: ACORN is not a “sacred cow” of the “left”. It’s the bogeyman of the right. ACORN is used in an effort to de-legitimize election results before they occur. It’s a myth right up there with actual “voter fraud”.
Ken, I would respectfully also request that you read what I am actually saying. I didn’t say the employees were indicted for voter fraud. It was registration fraud and there are many cases of that. Now, if there is registration fraud and no id checks of voters, how can you tell me there is no voter fraud?
Why is Acorn such a sacred cow of the left?
Why can’t voters simply go down to the county and register if they want to vote, then show an ID when the show up at the poll?
Here are your words (emphasis added):
Here is an article about an Acorn worker being indicted on voter fraud.
Are you really saying “I didn’t say the employees were indicted for voter fraud”?
ACORN is not a sacred cow. The erroneous urban legend attacks on it are absurd. I really don’t know anything about ACORN, except for the claims I’ve read in The Lavender Room that just aren’t true. So I looked into them, and discovered the truth that is a far cry from the claims.
Why can’t voters simply go to their registration place and register? It isn’t always easy for someone who works for $7.50/hour to take time off from work to do this, as registration places are mostly open only during working hours. As for showing and ID at the polling place, I’ve described who is to blame for that issue, and it isn’t ACORN.
Wow, that’s a novel approach. If one of my employees makes an error, I’m going to say they are “akin” to independent contractors so you can’t pin it on my company.
I’d respect you more if you would just admit that you like them because they sign up thousands of brain dead democrat party voters, then deliver the goods on election day, and if there is a little fraud involved so be it, it’s for the greater good.
So we’ve upped our game to ad hominem?
Not at all. If I were to call you an ignorant slut, that would be ad hominem. Rather, I am simply pointing out why you are unable to recognize the fault in your position.
How do you supervise people in the field? Why bother hiring anyone in the first place, when you are just going to shadow them with supervisors the whole time?
So there is no need for supervisors in construction, or sales, or manufacturing, or legal work? Of course you can supervise without shadowing employees. It happens in every business in every city in the country. ACORN is no exception. Unless, of course, you like the results of unsupervised voter registration efforts.
For the final time: when a hired voter registration worker submits a voter registration form, the law requires that it be turned in to voter registrars. Period.
So, your point is what? That ACORN should take no responsibility for continuing to hire people that turn in fraudulent cards? That is in fact their practice or it would not happen on such a grand scale and with such regularity.
Your position is clear. You like the results so ACORN gets a pass. Sure ACORN catches the most egregious forms. It would be embarassing if they did not flag Mickey Mouse and the like. But you certainly can’t contend that ACORN flags them all. And you certainly can’t contend that they really care if facially OK but substantively fraudulent cards are submitted because they take no steps to stop it.
I have no particular affinity to ACORN. But after hearing right wing commentator after right wing commentator rail against the dangers of ACORN, voter fraud, etc., plus the information being reported in the news, I did some research and found most of the claims were bogus with respect to ACORN, as an entity. The fact of the matter is that there is not evidence that ACORN, as an entity, has a policy which is aimed at encouraging or assisting voter registration fraud, and their internal controls are pretty effective in ensuring that voter registration fraud doesn’t occur.
You’re right I typed the wrong word.
Ken, when I was 18 I registered to vote. Went down to the election office and did it. When I moved out of town as a lowly paid young man I went to the elections office in my new county and registered. I guess it was important enough for me. At a minimum, that should be required of everyone and you wages are no excuse. Think of all the things you have to prove your identity for. Isn’t voting a little more sacred than most of those things?
That you are satisfied will make me sleep a lot better tonight.
.
How do you pre-screen/weed out people that are willing to defraud a company? How can you tell that ahead of time?
Define “facially ok, and substantively fraudulent”? And are those types of cards being caught by the state’s election officials? And if not, how is that in any way, shape or form the fault of ANY organization that is attempting to register voters?
Said individuals, attempting to get paid without actually doing the work, get fraudulent info, are being turned in by ACORN and ACORN assists in flagging the fraudulent voter registration forms.
Gee I have an idea. Let’s say that ACORN agrees to pay $1.00 per valid registration card. When Joe Smith brings in his cards, ACORN reviews the cards for facial compliance and gives Joe Smith half his money. Joe gets the balance after the cards are subjected to a more thorough review. Any incomplete or inaccurate cards are rejected and not only does Joe not get his $1.00 for that card but he loses a dollar as a penalty. If even one of Joe’s cards is found to be fraudulent, the card is flagged and the authorities are notified that Joe is submitting fraudulent cards. Joe is never hired again by ACORN and Joe’s name, address, phone number and SSN are given to the authorities with the fraudulent cards. But we all know why that won’t happen.
So give us your proof. Lay out the claim. All you have is innuendo and mis-reporting of the cases.
You’re right I typed the wrong word.
Ken, when I was 18 I registered to vote. Went down to the election office and did it. When I moved out of town as a lowly paid young man I went to the elections office in my new county and registered. I guess it was important enough for me. At a minimum, that should be required of everyone and you wages are no excuse. Think of all the things you have to prove your identity for. Isn’t voting a little more sacred than most of those things?
I registered while at college (and voted in 1976). But you and I are not the target of voter registration drives. There are people for whom taking time off from work for a couple of hours might lose them their job, or for whom that $20 is the difference between mac and cheese the last couple of days of the month and nothing. These voter registration drives aren’t just for the lazy or indifferent. They are also for the indigent, the homeless, the homebound (like nursing home residents: should they get themselves to City Hall? Or should your taxes go up to pay for the gov’t staff to go out there and register them?), the uneducated.
Step outside your (and my) safe little world for a moment.