http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/18/education/18college.html?em
quite an interesting read.
Wait until they get out into the real world and the people that don’t work hard are entitled to all the goods.
Jason Greenwood is an idiot.
“If you try really really hard you should get an A”
"If your maximum effort can only be average in a teacher’s mind, then something is wrong.” no there’s nothing wrong Mr. Greenwood, some people are gong to be average no matter how hard they try.
Thank God he’s just a kinesiology teacher.
Yeah! Hand 'em over!
Lazy punk!
But I’m honest. So I get an A right?
He’s a student actually…stupid nonetheless.
It’s the “look at me” generation, brought on by parents/teachers/programs that promote ME first, doesn’t allow failure, and empowers children to disrespect authority, loathe waiting (want it NOW), and who’s idea of exercise is Twitter, FB, or My Space.
Ever been in line at a busy McDonald’s and 4 year old Suzie in front of you gets to say her order, encouraged by her “Jon Benet Ramsey” Mom, with total disregard to the other patrons hoping to order before lunch hour is done?
And No child left behind: Doesn’t allow the dumbest kids to fail. Dumb down the cirriculum instead. Don’t berate 16 yr. old Tommy for not being able to find North America on a map, instead PRAISE him for trying.
Parents don’t spend time with their kids, but they can buy them instant gratification (toys, video games, etc.), which fosters the EXPECTATION of immediate satisfaction of their wants.
Most college graduates think they should be running companies, not working entry level. They don’t understand the concept of earning your promotion, or paying your dues.
Nothing wrong with being ambitious, but there is no excuse for ignorance.
Since I like to teach I’ve been doing so for 15+ years for several of the local universities and some online courses as well. By and large it’s all adults with jobs in my courses; very few 18-21 year old kids (unless they’re in the military and doing the course online). This sort of attitude in the adult students I see is almost non-existent, so I’ll venture a guess that it’s more common in those that have not had a job where you were judged by the quality of your work rather than the level of your effort. I’m all for more required courses that actually have right and wrong answers (like math) instead of those where you can get it wrong but so long as you worked hard and feel good about your mistakes it’s somehow OK, if only to hammer home the point that effort only gets you so far.
Chris
I wonder if there is a big discrepancy in the sense of entitlement between ‘regular students’ and ‘athlete-students’ in sports like swimming, XC, etc…
I like the whole “if I try really hard, I deserve an ‘A’” thing. What if your best just doesn’t come up to standards? We’re supposed to give you a pass on that and move you along in an attempt to validate your self-esteem? How do you say it France? Dement?
BK
I aced my way through high school with relatively little effort. Both of my parents were teachers, so I always did my work, studied enough, did fine and went to college pretty high on myself.
The first paper I ever turned in for PoliSci 101 I got a C. I was devastated. But it was the wake up call I needed. I went on to graduate with almost a 3.9 and graduated as the top student in the Political Science department, despite that early C, haha.
I had a Vietnamese professor for Econ Stats, his name was Ho Nguyen (pronounced “win”). On the first day of class, after handing out the syllabus, he described his grading policy “Ho Nguyen, you lose!”
Wait until they get out into the real world and the people that don’t work hard are entitled to all the goods.
So the laziest, poorest people are entitled to “all the goods”? That’s not true, otherwise they wouldn’t be poor.
I’ve taught several online courses in aviation management at a local community college, in the past. Most of the kids were 18 to 22, and their writing and critical thinking skills were subpar, to put it mildly. For the most part, their online discussions were very poor, and the quality of their mid-term and final papers was…not good. I had to send several of them back for multiple rewrites, just so I could get the student up to minimal writing competency in order to justify a ‘C’ by the end of the course. Now, community college isn’t Harvard or Yale. I have no problem with that, considering the closest I’d ever come to being at those ivy-covered institutions would be as a greenskeeper, or something. But, I wonder at what a lot of these folks *learned *in high school before deciding they didn’t have the chops to pull things off at a four-year university, and landed in my online courses. Was it anything of note, or did many of them recieve a “social pass” when it came to their grades? You guys tell me.
BK
or did many of them recieve a “social pass” when it came to their grades
There may be an element of that. I think the fact that I had parents who were both teachers and was a competitive person is what was behind my effort in high school. Furthermore as an honors/AP student I was surrounded by similar people. But as you referred to, the whole “social pass” idea certainly has some validaty. I know in speaking with my folks they would say they would get students in their high school classes and after reviewing the student’s work early in the year think “How did this kid make it this far?”
At the high schools I went to (2 of them due to family move) there were distinct tracks for students depending on ability and it was common knowledge among the students that the standards applied were track dependent - some of us were clearly college-bound (and beyond), others junior / community college, a third group went on to greater fame and glory working at the local gas station. For this last group, whether their writing or other skills were up to snuff was no more of an issue for the teachers than it was for the students.
That’s a shame, because the ability to express one’s self can be a definite asset, regardless of the vocation or profession in which a person might end up. My father-in-law, who’s a retired professor (Marquette), says that not everyone is made for college, and he’s right. But going through life inarticulate or unable to read or write very well is no way to live. It almost sounds as if your school’s teachers just gave up on more than a few students.
BK
Makes sense. Coming from a k-12 perspective, where I work, I guess the “above-average” college student is pretty used to receiving A’s in high school since they represent the top 5-10 percent of high school students. More than 10 % of my kids receive A’s. (But I teach a lot of electives). But almost 10% flunk and get no credit too, and that’s even more difficult to do, in my opinion.
But at the high school level we do try to teach them the value of grades: The AP students know a B in AP calculus is worth far more than an A in trig. … It also really depends on the family and the high school. The “grade grubbers” are also not always the best and brightest, that is certain.
Sure this is an issue, but we are still talking about the real high end here. Remember, only about 25 percent of Americans graduate college and that percentage is declining.
But many in that high end do indeed feel entitled, and have for generations. Whether they did it themselves or with help from parents or others … Just look at the current crop of the “smartest guys in the room” in the business world and how they have helped drive the world economy into the crapper.
Ya just had to slide that economy-in-the-crapper blurb in there didn’cha, you unregenerate socialist-in-exile-in-a-tarpaper-shack-in-Montana? (hahahaha!) No dental floss farms up there, though, eh?
T.
But at the high school level we do try to teach them the value of grades: The AP students know a B in AP calculus is worth far more than an A in trig. … It also really depends on the family and the high school. The “grade grubbers” are also not always the best and brightest, that is certain.
At the second high school I went to I remember we had a real flap about a point like this one. A bunch of us had taken every AP or other college-level course offered and we were the majority of the top 10 in that graduating class including a girl who was 1st or 2nd by GPA; another young woman also had a very high (the other 1st or second student) GPA but had gotten it through far easier courses (basket weaving, home economics, typing, etc.). The girl with the easy courses (and certainly her parents) were absolutely convinced that her record was every bit the equal in achievement. After far too much wrangling the principal and school board finally grew a spine and put their collective foot down (how's that for an anatomically challenged mixed metaphor?) and ruled that an A in calculus mattered more than an A in typing, etc. and Miss Easy Course graduated 2nd as a consolation prize. I went to some messed up high schools.