cyclingnews is reporting that Armstrong might try for the hour record and that he might do it on a new velodrome.
I thought someone told me that new tracks tend to be a little slower than tracks that have aged a few years. Is that true or not and if it is true, how much difference does it typically make?
cyclingnews is reporting that Armstrong might try for the hour record and that he might do it on a new velodrome.
I thought someone told me that new tracks tend to be a little slower than tracks that have aged a few years. Is that true or not and if it is true, how much difference does it typically make?
It isn’t just new track vs. old tracks. The shape, banking, type of wood, and other factors are involved also. Tyically a new track gets faster with age as there is less compression in the surface and the wood gets drier. It is of course an honor to have the host track be the location of the record. The ADT track here in LA while similar to the Manchester track in proportion is not as fast. Sure would be great to see Lance take a crack at it, Sosenka’s name seems to be a bit tarnished after his positive. Of course, the same could be said for a few of the previous record holders…
-SD
cyclingnews is reporting that Armstrong might try for the hour record and that he might do it on a new velodrome.
I thought someone told me that new tracks tend to be a little slower than tracks that have aged a few years. Is that true or not and if it is true, how much difference does it typically make?
That’s pretty hard to say definitely and is perhaps one of those items of trackie lore (there are lots) without much actual data to support it.
I know when I rode on the new track at Darebin (Melbourne) it’d only been open a couple of weeks yet it *seemed *very quick to me and records were set at the championships that year.
I can’t say I’ve personally noticed any difference in the speed of the surface at Dunc Gray Velodrome in Sydney since it was opened for the Olympics in 2000.
Really it’s atomspheric conditions that have the biggest impact but yes, the shape of a track does influence small things, such as running wide in the straights or not when pursuiting, length of straights vs turns etc. But that can also come down to an individual’s style. I sometimes *think *I can notice a difference in how the wood feels under me depending on the recent humidity but really I have no data to suggest that’s anything more than a sensation.
It would seem from results that ADT is not a particularly fast track for its type.
While not pursuit/hour issues, the track height and banking profile can have a fair impact on 200m sprint times. There’s a reason why Theo Bos chose Moscow for his world record 200m fly.
I also heard Armstrong will be going to Mars, no wait, Armstrong is Mars, no he is the universe!!!’
Whomever does his publicity is a genius.
While not pursuit/hour issues, the track height and banking profile can have a fair impact on 200m sprint times. There’s a reason why Theo Bos chose Moscow for his world record 200m fly.
We were told at the Superdrome check out session that the pole line is level. It is supposedly this way on most tracks, so it seems like altitude, temperature and humidity would be the key factors.
The age of the wood would make little difference really. Far bigger changes in performance would come from leaving the door open, or cranking the heating up. There’s a reason why sprinters like it hot. Lance could do a Merckx and Moser and go to Mexico for an attempt. Altitude really helps with this sort of thing, which is why the kilo WR is in Bolivia. I’d prefer to see him do it close to sea level though, so his ride is on a par with Boardman or Sosenka.
Despite the fact that the black line is level on (almost) all tracks, some are faster, or easier to ride, from a pursuiting perspective, by going wide on the straights. The dimensions of the track, turn radius etc all play a part. Certainly, Manchester is a smoother track for pursuiting on than Meadowbank. Despite them being the same length (250m), Manchester has shorter straights and wider turns than Meadowbank, which makes Manchester more circular than Meadowbank, and would make it easier to ride towards the end of the effort.
For an hour attempt, you really need to consider the athlete more than anything else. Despite the fact that Armstrong was the best time trialist of his time, he may not be able to produce the power required to do 49.71kph in a drop bar position with all the aerodynamic restrictions on frame, fork, wheels etc imposed on the record. If he has an SRM, it’d be quite easy to see if the speed required 500w, 400w, or whatever. If Armstrong can only sustain 400w for an hour, and the record demands 510w, there could be an issue there. Michael Hutchinson wrote some interesting stuff in the book about his attempt, about tinkering with the position etc in order to find some way to get the power demands down to a level he could actually sustain.
Personally I’d like to see him have a crack at Boardmans 56km record, but it won’t happen.
Running wide on the straights is faster ? I didn’t know that. Why is that ?
Running wide on the straights is faster ? I didn’t know that. Why is that ?
I’m not entirely sure why but presumably something to do with the shape of the transitions between straights and turns as well as the angle of banking in the straight (not all tracks are the same).
Some tracks are suited for going wide. Others are neutral and others you are better off holding the line.
IIRC Andy Coggan has done some power meter analysis of some tracks to see if there was a discernable advantage or not.
It may also depend on how fast you are. The faster you go, the more you lean over in the turn, making the transition impact slightly different. So just because it works for say, Brad McGee, doesn’t mean it’ll work for me ('cause I’m a lot slower).
If you’ve ever ridden a Team Pursuit on a 250m track, you’ll have a very good idea of some of the subtleties.
Alex (who’s just back home from coaching team pursuit squads) Simmons
It can be. As Alex said, it depends on speed, shape of track etc. Cheers for that Alex.
When the worlds were at the ADT, Rob Hayles had a real problem in the pursuit because of the shape of the track. This is why the TP rode wide on the straights instead of following the line. It was smoother, and therefore faster for them.
I think McGee did a similar thing in 2002 at the Manchester Commie Games.
For an hour attempt, you really need to consider the athlete more than anything else. Despite the fact that Armstrong was the best time trialist of his time, he may not be able to produce the power required to do 49.71kph in a drop bar position with all the aerodynamic restrictions on frame, fork, wheels etc imposed on the record. If he has an SRM, it’d be quite easy to see if the speed required 500w, 400w, or whatever. If Armstrong can only sustain 400w for an hour, and the record demands 510w, there could be an issue there. Michael Hutchinson wrote some interesting stuff in the book about his attempt, about tinkering with the position etc in order to find some way to get the power demands down to a level he could actually sustain.
Personally I’d like to see him have a crack at Boardmans 56km record, but it won’t happen.
Armstrong might have clothing going for him. There don’t seem to be many restrictions on it and according to Korioth it was hard to get a draft off Lance at Tour de Gruene on Sunday due to how slick he was.
Running wide on the straights is faster ? I didn’t know that. Why is that ?
I’m not entirely sure why but presumably something to do with the shape of the transitions between straights and turns as well as the angle of banking in the straight (not all tracks are the same).
Some tracks are suited for going wide. Others are neutral and others you are better off holding the line.
IIRC Andy Coggan has done some power meter analysis of some tracks to see if there was a discernable advantage or not.
At least on ADT and for an extremely experienced track cyclist, I could not discern any benefit to this practice. Whether they “floated the turns and powered the straights” or “powered the turns and floated the straights” also didn’t alter the speed vs. power relationship.
As for Frank’s original question: I’ve heard similar statements, and have been told that when ADT first opened, the wood was so soft that walking on it in cleats would leave impressions. However, there are enough exceptions to the “new tracks are slow” rule (e.g., Majorca) that I’m not sure just how significant such an effect truly is, at least in the big scheme of things.
With respect to ADT specifically, what makes it relatively slow is the generally cooler temperatures, and hence high air density. The only time I’ve ever been there when it didn’t feel like a meat locker was when it was packed with fans for Worlds or World Cup.