Hi there,
Since December, when I became a happy proud father for the first time, I haven’t had a chance to train as much as I would like. Therefore I decided to focus this season on becoming a better runner. In May I will run my first marathon with the goal of going under four hours and in October I will run Chicago. I have heard that Chicago is super crowded and if you are not in either corral A or B it may take a while until you actually start running. I really want to peak for that race and it would be very disappointing not to do well (for me). So here is the dilemma: May 18 is my first marathon and I don’t know if I could have a qualifying time there. The week before there is a half marathon and I am pretty sure I could do 1:35 which is the cut time for corral A. The day after the marathon I am leaving the country for two months so I won’t really be able to race that much. Here is the question: I am already registered for the full, should I do the half the weekend before the full to assure a qualifying time? will it be enough time to recover properly for the full? I just want to have a good experience so I don’t get burn out.
Thanks a lot!!
DPC
This depends on a lot:
How much are you training?
What is your experience?
what is your age?
How well do you want to do in the marathon? (racing the half will slow down your marathon)
etc.
If you need more help P.M. me.
Which priority is more important, getting into a corral at the front of Chicago, or doing well in your spring marathon? You definitely won’t be fully recovered a week after running a half hard.
On the other hand, if you’re pretty sure you can do a 1:35 half, a sub-4-hour marathon should be no problem (assuming you pace yourself and are properly trained for the distance, and assuming it’s not an extremely difficult course).
And yes, Chicago is not a race to run for time unless you can get into one of those corrals. But if I recall correctly, you only have to run a 1:45 half to get into the second corral, and that’s still way better than being in the main field.
That’s a really tough question. I couldn’t run a good marathon 7 days after running close to a PR in my half. Two weeks? Maybe, 1 week no … I would still do an OK marathon, but it might not be pretty. If Chicago is your main goal, maybe you should try your bets in the 1/2 and approach the May marathon as a training day and just have fun and not push it (unless you feel good at mile 20, which is doubtful after the 1/2 you plan). But everybody’s different.
I am 30 and currently running 40 m/w although I am planning on increasing this to 70/80 a week during the Summer. I have been competing in triathlons for 2 years and my best time is 4:51 in a HIM with a 1:40 on the run.
My goal for the Spring marathon is just to finish, to know what it feels like and to get some experience for Chicago. In Chicago I’d like to go under 3:30. I am sure I can do 1:40 but I am not certain that I can do very good in my first marathon.
Is it crazy then to do a fast half and then an easy full in just two weeks?
Thanks,
DPC
Not really enough info. How long have you been running? What’s your weekly mileage in training for this marathon? How fast have you run in shorter races?
FWIW, since this is your very first marathon, it’s very unlikely you will run a qualifying time there unless you have a huge base and many years of fast running - plus have been following a great marathon training program. If you’re capable of running fast enough in the HM to get you into the qualifying corrals at Chicago, that’s where you should place your focus. Even doing it that way, you still may be able to get your goal of going under 4 hours. The difference in speed between a 1:35 HM and a 3:59 mary is about 1:30 per mile. If indeed you’re fully capable of going 1:35 you may well be able to run a much slower pace in a marathon a week later even on slightly tired legs.
Be aware that nothing is a given. Weather can play a major factor in your races and ruin the best laid plans.
He’s talking about a qualifying time for the Chicago corrals, not for Boston. That is much easier.
I’d do the 1/2 and push to get under 1:35-then the spring marathon as training- goal to get into A/B at Chicago and get ramped up for a good run there; FWIW- your mileage needs to be “at least” 60 and more like 70+mpw with lots of consistent long runs at MP
.
Huh? That’s BS.
FWIW- your mileage needs to be “at least” 60 and more like 70+mpw with lots of consistent long runs at MP
that’s for a marathon- and it was FWIW AW
.
thanks for the advice but…what does “FWIW AW” mean? I guess I am still too new!
DPC
If you can pull a 1:35 half, your goal for the full should be a lot faster than 4hrs. Have you been doing you long runs?
I am 30 and currently running 40 m/w although I am planning on increasing this to 70/80 a week during the Summer. I have been competing in triathlons for 2 years and my best time is 4:51 in a HIM with a 1:40 on the run.
My goal for the Spring marathon is just to finish, to know what it feels like and to get some experience for Chicago. In Chicago I’d like to go under 3:30. I am sure I can do 1:40 but I am not certain that I can do very good in my first marathon.
Is it crazy then to do a fast half and then an easy full in just two weeks?
Thanks,
DPC
well, I’d say that you may not have enough running miles on your legs to run 80 mile weeks. Shoot for near 60 miles a week and with 1-2 days of resistance training (running specific). Skip the half, you don’t have the experience to handle both. If you wanted to run both well you would need 100+ weeks and even then your marathon would suffer. If you want to race 2 weeks out shoot for a 10k and use it as your temp0 run for the week. Hope this helps
“1-2 days of resistance training (running specific)”
Huh, what is running specific resistance training exactly? And how does resistance training help running again?
In my Opinion you will not run well in your Marathon, if the Half marathon the week before requires a hard effort to hit your 1:35. Give at least 2 weeks to recover from an all out Half effort. I do not posess blazing speed but My 1/2 PR 1:28 (which was an all out effort for me) post half saw me running very ez for the entire week after and included some residual soreness into the second week. Basically I would not have been able to run a fast Marathon. My goal Marathon was 4 weeks out from the half. (this was running 50-60 miles a week consistently). I would skip the 1/2 and do a 5K to give yourself a tatse of speed and not need any recovery time.
If you can pull a 1:35 half, your goal for the full should be a lot faster than 4hrs. Have you been doing you long runs?
Right, A 1:35 half is abut equal to a 3:18 marathon, assuming you ran the long runs properly. My athletes who run 1:35 for the half are around 3:20 ish for sure. I’d do the marathon, plenty of time to recover and ramp it up for Chicago. It may take a while to get through the start, but it’s not like you’ll be walking the first 3 miles bc of crowds.
Good luck
The thing about doing the half and then the full was to assure at least Corral B for Chicago. I’ve never run a full marathon and I have to admit that I am not too good at pacing myself (I can see myself going 6:40 for the first 10 miles and then blowing up). This is the unknown for me so the idea was to get some experience in my first one so I could do better in Chicago but after reading the comments here and talking to a friend during the run this morning, I think I will just got for the full (since it is already paid for) and see what happens.
Now the follow up questions: what kind of strategy should I follow? should I keep the same pace the whole race? should I go faster the first half?
thanks,
DPC
I think you are making the best choice. Experience is key in the marathon. So many people think that they have to get a cushion and go a little faster the first half. If you look at race results 80-90% of runners slow down at least 2 min, usually at least 4 or more the second half.
I would go out on pace. The best races in a marathon are usually the ones where the runner maintains pace or even negative splits. I would also do a lot of long runs at goal marathon pace, like progression runs. Also some long runs with a portion between half mar pace and mar pace.
Good luck!
“1-2 days of resistance training (running specific)”
Huh, what is running specific resistance training exactly? And how does resistance training help running again?
Resistance training increases strength, improves vo2 max, improves LT, aids in injury prevention, if done properly increases flexibility, improves running economy, etc.
It’s also important to mix up what types of training you do. For instance traditional resistance training has a huge positive effect on running economy but only has a small positive effect on race time. Plyo’s can hurt economy but can have a drastic positive effect on your race times. Sport specific improves your race time’s especially on hilly, windy and long courses. Circuit training, if done properly will improve your LT & vo2 slightly. All aid in injury prevention, however plyo’s have the highest risk of injury of all types of resistance training I’m mentioned.
A good resistance program is necessary for runners. The frequency should be one-two times per week and can be performed before or after a running workout (after would be better for a competitive runner). Some common exercises should include: squats, push ups, squat jumps, medicine ball sit-ups, crunches, medicine ball sitting twists, lunge, good mornings, lunge walks, toe walks, standing calf raises, plank, 90 deg forward raises, etc.
A general weight circuit program can be used for higher intensity weight training. It should be done twice a week to develop muscular strength. This type training is designed to help increase tolerance of LT (lactate threshold) levels that rise to high levels during a race competition. Weight circuits will increase local muscular endurance during the later phases in peak performance. This method should include work and rest ratios to around one:one. Decreasing the rest intervals will increase the LT effect, but will lesson the strength gain effect.
One strategic method for the weight circuit is to arrange the order of exercises for the athlete so the correct technique and proper recovery can be maximized for each exercise. Rotating the order of movements from lower body movement, core strength movement, and upper body movement will help provide a smooth transition and optimize recovery for the team doing circuit training sessions. It can also be beneficial to pair athletes up according to their strength levels to challenge each other. Some common exercises in a weight circuit should include: lateral leg raises, dips, side-to-side jumps, back extensions with a medicine ball, pull-ups, step-ups, sprinter situps, and split squat, etc.
Core strength and stability program should be done four-five times per week. An effective core program should include a volume of 200-400 reps per session. Floor exercises (crunches, sit-ups, plank, etc.) should be interchanged with physioball exercises (bridge ups, alternating sit-ups, leg curls, etc.) You should hold these exercises to increase muscle recruitment patterns. These types of exercises are isometric and can help postural strength and increase running economy and correct postural running technique throughout a race.
One component that could easily be overlooked is the upper body strength needed to fight for good positioning in a race. “The increased upper body strength can help delay fatigue in the arms and postural muscles during the race.” (Dolezal, 1996) I have heard runners explain to me that during the race their arms begin to drop and this affected their running. This tendency can be fought with increased upper body strength endurance.
A valuable component that should be considered is the need for sport specific leg power. The start and the finish are two times during a race competition that increased sprinting power is needed. This can be focused on with a variety of hops and jumps worked into body weight or weight training routines.
Be careful not to cause muscle imbalances, circuit training doesn’t have to be the only means of resistance training and using peridization in your resistance program is very important
some other info:
Some examples of quality resistance training goals for runners include:
Muscle enlargement: increased muscle size usually means increased strength, which can enhance performance Muscle contraction time: research reveals that strength training does not affect a muscle’s contraction time and therefore will not slow one down. In fact many athletes have shown increased speed of movement Bone density: there is strong evidence that strength training can increase bone mineral content, thus guarding against stress fractures and providing a safety factor in the cases of falls Connective tissue: physiological adaptations in ligaments and tendons due to strength training may help prevent injuries (Dolezal, 1996) Weights were performed an average of 1.8 times per week during the competition phase and 3.6 times per week during peak phase for the top 14 Division I cross country teams at NCAA Nationals in 2000 (Kurz., et al.)
If you can pull a 1:35 half, your goal for the full should be a lot faster than 4hrs. Have you been doing you long runs?
Right, A 1:35 half is abut equal to a 3:18 marathon, assuming you ran the long runs properly. My athletes who run 1:35 for the half are around 3:20 ish for sure. I’d do the marathon, plenty of time to recover and ramp it up for Chicago. It may take a while to get through the start, but it’s not like you’ll be walking the first 3 miles bc of crowds.
Good luck
very true. However I say that a sub 3:20 is more realistic than a 3:18 marathon. I’m guessing you used Jack Daniels formula to figure this out?
And I would agree with you that a 3:18 marathon would be a good prediction if this guy had more experience (2 or 3 long course events under his belt). He doesn’t, he doesn’t know what it will feel like going that far & he hasn’t figured out the nutrition yet.
I’d like to see this guy include a few 10k and 1 half marathon in his training plan. Just not 2 weeks before the marathon.