If anybody has noticed, I do not have “Just say no to Frankenbikes” on my signature any longer. I am still against Integrated Headsets, however. This stems from a conversation that I had with Juan from Nova Cycle Supply (while getting a shift boss kit), a supplier to quite a few small frame builders.
In our long conversation, I realised two things: this Juan guy is incredibly intelligent, and he knows fabrication inside and out. Basically, the installation of the chainstays is dummy-proof, and actually makes straighter frames as a result. The installation of a carbon chainstay could be done without glue; though there would be quite a few rattles. It works on compression. Also, the spec’d glue has (what he calls)engineering plastic which acts as an insulator against galvanic corrosion.
Carbon stays are being sold at Nova only as an improvement in ride quality, not weight reduction. Almost every aluminum chain and seat stay will be lighter than the carbon assembly. The carbon stay is easier to install and with good preparation, will not have any galvanic corrosion. Juan said that he NEVER had any complaints on carbon stays, and it has actually helped make many small builders yield straighter, easier to build frames.
I am not going to jump out and buy a frame with a carbon rear end anytime soon, but after this conversation, I have faith that my first frame could be made quite easily and pretty straight. I would build my frame out of steel with carbon, as this would result in a reduction in weight with a great feel to the frame. If I undertake this job, I would use Foco with a carbon rear assembly (chain and seat stays).
You can still not convince me that integrated headsets are any better than the non-integrated ones they replace. But Frankenbikes are okay. The verdict will be in riding my pal’s Fondriest, which is steel with carbon.
This is really good to know, because I respect your experience level, and I have a Yaqui Carbo being shipped to me at the end of the week! Mr. Mandaric convinced me that there would be no problem, and I obviously believed him, but to have you change your opinion is a significant occurance regarding the carbon seat stay option on an aluminum frame.
I probably missed a bunch of information on previous threads… but having read the Chris King site’s position, I have a couple of thoughts.
The predominent notion seams to be that sealed bearings are better than caged. Does anyone other than CK offer sealed bearing headsets?
Outside of that… the questions seems to be the quality of race/cup manufacturing when it is part of the frame - but mostly a wear and replace issue. My questions is… how many riders actually ride enough on a single frame to take advantage of the long term benefits of the Chris King model.
It would seem that a high mieage rider is likely to swap frames pretty often - every few years anyway. The lower mileage rider might have a frame for 10 years but the wear would not be there.
I know if several companies (not in this industry) that have actually gone out of business as a result of overbuilding product (as oximoronic as that seems)
Bunnyman, are you aware of any carbon rear ends that are designed or adaptable to 650c wheels? Looks to me that all of them are for 700c wheels.
It would be nice if a custom builder would be able to buy a 650c carbon rear end and build the rest of the bike from my favorite steel: True Temper OX Gold or Platinum (the new S3 tubeset looks promising though).
FSA offers a cartrige bearing headset, as well as Cane Creek, and quite a few others. Campy’s Record headset uses loose balls, which are actually smoother (when everything’s done right), but sealed bearings are a set up and forget it proposition.
I don’t see King having over-engineered themselves out of anything. As long as Integrated Headsets don’t completely take over, it’s safe to say that there will be plenty of Chris King ones out there.
On the question about how many riders would get the full wear benefits out of a King? Pro riders probably would end up replacing most of the components over the course of a bike’s lifetime, especially if they have their own personal steed tat they go back to post season.
I knew that if anyone got it right, Ves would. I have all of the respect in the world for this man. But my mind totally changed with a one hour conversation over a $4.00 part that led to Frankenbikes. I will continue to call them Frankenbikes, however.