Not everything is about making money or a return on investment as a pro. At least this is not the Aussie way. It’s a World Championship. You put yourself in the race because you want to test yourself against the best. Maybe it works out, maybe it doesn’t. Everytime we race we take risks, financial or otherwise. Why should a trip to Australia be any different? You put yourself in the race because it’s an experience. This amazing sport we do gives us an opportunity to travel, experience different countries and different cultures that we wouldn’t experience otherwise. To forsake this because you might lose a couple K here and there is retarded.
Cute speech and all, but some athletes are trying to make ends meet as pros (and very often failing) and simply don’t have “a couple K here and there” to throw around for the sake of a good experience.
See Josh Amberger just confimed exactly what I was saying above. If you are a pro in this sport and you are doing it based on financial decisions, you picked the wrong profession. Most pro triathletes are reasonably smart and often decently educated and could make a lot more MONEY doing something else, but they are putting aside MAKING MONEY for the competition, the experience and the personal enrichment that comes with racing with and against people globally and the associated travel and cultural experiences.
Josh good to see you have your head on straight. Maybe you can drive that enlightenment into the heads of others. Also to Josh, I think you guys in Australian and New Zealand are used to having to get on a plane and go global across all sports to “compete”…swimming, track, cricket, rugby, tennis. That’s just what Aussie and Kiwi athletes do. Here in North America, we have an isolated world view. If you play football, basketball, hockey, baseball, you don’t have to leave this continent for the 'best competition", so this mentality generally filters down in the culture across sports. Maybe the Canadian athletes feel some greater commonwealth connection to going overseas, but we’re still pretty “localized” in mindset.
Serious question- do these pros have families? It’s one thing for a single guy/ gal to spend their minuscule amounts of cash to travel 1/2 way around the world, get there 2-weeks before the race, stay an extra month, then spend more of their money they didn’t make at the race to go to Hawaii a month later. When all is said and done, their 2-months removed from the ones they love. Potts has gone public saying that he’s got his family in mind when he decides on races.
Finally the entire debate of “I won’t make money doing xyz” in pro triathlon is borderline silly. **** If a pro triathlete is doing this for money they are in the wrong profession outside of the top 5.
I would agree with you on the average race but not in a World Championship. Perhaps I have a different mindset, but if I’m going to the WC, I plan on doing well. I want to win the cash, I want the points, I want to compete. If you’re going for the experience, then there are a plethora of great races easily done and less the cost. I finished 17th at the WC probably means less than I’m the reigning Champion at IM 70.3 ______ (insert any other race name here) to the sponsors. I find the ‘lifetime experience’ argument more silly than the potential to make money. There are so many ways to gain life experience, even in the context of sport, that doesn’t include needing to travel as far away from your home for a race as physically possible.
See Josh Amberger just confimed exactly what I was saying above. If you are a pro in this sport and you are doing it based on financial decisions, you picked the wrong profession. Most pro triathletes are reasonably smart and often decently educated and could make a lot more MONEY doing something else, but they are putting aside MAKING MONEY for the competition, the experience and the personal enrichment that comes with racing with and against people globally and the associated travel and cultural experiences.
I don’t think you understand the point. If you are a pro in this sport and want to continue being a pro in this sport, you need to stay solvent. You need to make ends meet. Unless you have some sort of exogenous resources – parents, significant other, spouse, savings from like as investment banker, etc. – you have to be very very good and/or extremely smart with your spendingjust to stay afloat. Look how good Cody Beals is, and how scrupulous, and he still lives under his parents roof. It would be insanely dumb for an athlete who has no money and has next to no chance to make any money at 70.3 worlds, to shell out “a few K” for a lovely experience and personal enrichment across the world. That is groceries for six months. If you can swing it, then by all means…but most can’t, especially if they are already trying to swing that kind of experience and personal enrichment in October on the big island.
I think you have too much money for this conversation, Dev, or at least don’t remember what it’s like to be dirt poor.
Serious question- do these pros have families? It’s one thing for a single guy/ gal to spend their minuscule amounts of cash to travel 1/2 way around the world, get there 2-weeks before the race, stay an extra month, then spend more of their money they didn’t make at the race to go to Hawaii a month later. When all is said and done, their 2-months removed from the ones they love. Potts has gone public saying that he’s got his family in mind when he decides on races.
Finally the entire debate of “I won’t make money doing xyz” in pro triathlon is borderline silly. **** If a pro triathlete is doing this for money they are in the wrong profession outside of the top 5.
I would agree with you on the average race but not in a World Championship. Perhaps I have a different mindset, but if I’m going to the WC, I plan on doing well. I want to win the cash, I want the points, I want to compete. If you’re going for the experience, then there are a plethora of great races easily done and less the cost. I finished 17th at the WC probably means less than I’m the reigning Champion at IM 70.3 ______ (insert any other race name here) to the sponsors. I find the ‘lifetime experience’ argument more silly than the potential to make money. There are so many ways to gain life experience, even in the context of sport, that doesn’t include needing to travel as far away from your home for a race as physically possible.
Having seen what goes on at both Kona at 70.3 WC, I think the lifetime experience angle for a young person (in that I mean any pro from 20-34) is worthwhile. These guys are not making much off this sport, and there is more to life than money. Working in an industry where we can make decent coin, pretty well the only thing I remember through my career is what we achieved, the the life changing experiences…how much was on a paycheque, or what the EPS was this quarter or now much market share we got from the competition well all that stuff just blends in.
Most of these pros when they are done racing, they won’t remember the size of any given 2nd tier paycheque. They will remember the racing experience, the comraderie with fellow pros and age groupers and the cultural experiences. Pretty well all my friends in my age group (50-54) who raced pro in triathlon, what they remember is what Josh is pointing out. They have all moved on to different careers doing the regular everyman grind. No need to do the everyman grind while you are your own boss as a pro long course triathlete. Once they are working in the everyman world and have maybe 2 weeks of vacation they won’t be able to do stuff like this.
See Josh Amberger just confimed exactly what I was saying above. If you are a pro in this sport and you are doing it based on financial decisions, you picked the wrong profession. Most pro triathletes are reasonably smart and often decently educated and could make a lot more MONEY doing something else, but they are putting aside MAKING MONEY for the competition, the experience and the personal enrichment that comes with racing with and against people globally and the associated travel and cultural experiences.
I don’t think you understand the point. If you are a pro in this sport and want to continue being a pro in this sport, you need to stay solvent. You need to make ends meet. Unless you have some sort of exogenous resources – parents, significant other, spouse, savings from like as investment banker, etc. – you have to be very very good and/or extremely smart with your spendingjust to stay afloat. Look how good Cody Beals is, and how scrupulous, and he still lives under his parents roof. It would be insanely dumb for an athlete who has no money and has next to no chance to make any money at 70.3 worlds, to shell out “a few K” for a lovely experience and personal enrichment across the world. That is groceries for six months. If you can swing it, then by all means…but most can’t, especially if they are already trying to swing that kind of experience and personal enrichment in October on the big island.
I think you have too much money for this conversation, Dev, or at least don’t remember what it’s like to be dirt poor.
I know exactly what it is like to be dirt poor even though I am not like that now. I also know that you can do a lot while poor out of close to nothing. When i was 18 I spent 3 weeks bike touring in Europe on my bike off $335 (yes it was the 80’s so call it $1000 now). I just lived on baguettes, jam, espressos, lived in a tent that I packed up every day, and ate cold food out of cans and the odd fruit. I realize that this is not how to live as a pro athlete, but just using an example that you don’t need a lot to live. I saved all year for my $600 airfare for this
If pro want to get to the Worlds, I am certain an enterprising one would be able to get local age grouper buddies to free up some air miles and local aussie age groupers to host. Then all you have to do is come up with your grocery money…and you don’t have to be dirt poor because your earnings suck from triathlon. You can get some revenue coaching age groupers, running some camps for them, working at Home Depot part time…whatever it takes to generate revenue to eat because you really can’t train 60 hours per week. Even if you train 30 hours per week you have 30 hours to work at local bike store or wait tables at restaurants etc etc. There is no excuse to having no revenue (in a developed country) other than lacking initiative and just wanting to train and do nothing else.
By the way, I agree about your point about pros that have families not wanting to spend a ton of time away. Aussie and Kiwi pros though, do this all the time “the other way around” because that’s really their main opportunity to make money on the other side of their summer.
Good grief that sounds like a crappy life experience just to go to a race. I can’t think of a less appealing time than to spend 6-8 weeks amongst strangers in a strange land, working at a local convenience store just to eat, and scratching by just for the opportunity to train.
Can it be done? Sure. Does it appeal to some? Sure. But I can totally get it why someone, including me, just wouldn’t be interested in that lifestyle (at any point in my life, including when I was much younger). I won’t bag on the guy or gal of whom this appeals while at the same time I’m not bagging on the guy or gal of whom just isn’t in to this sort of thing. It completely makes sense to me why a pro wouldn’t go to Australia for a race.
…culture across sports. Maybe the Canadian athletes feel some greater commonwealth connection to going overseas, but we’re still pretty “localized” in mindset.
Canadians:
MCMAHON BRENT
REID TAYLOR
SANDERS LIONEL
WURTELE TREVOR
Smart move for the Americans to stay home. Not many podium slots left with this lot going.
In reply to hey_burgs:
Same exact reason I am making the trip with my family. I’ll be very AG MOP at this race, but I’ll do the best I can on that day. But like you say, it is the experience I am looking forward to. The country I never visited before, the friends from around the world I will make, and the opportunity for my kids to experience another country and culture. For the last 35 years, triathlon has allowed me to “see the world” as an age grouper, and it has afforded me a greater understanding of different world perspectives, and race in very cool places. Now I want my kids to have the same experiences and learn from travel like I did. Can’t wait to arrive in Australia!
There’s two US male pros racing and I think it’s lousy that there isn’t more. I know it’s a home race for us Aussies, but in years past Vegas and Mont Tremblant for instance, there would be at least a dozen Aussies racing abroad.
Who the hell wants to race in a place where everything can kill you?
…culture across sports. Maybe the Canadian athletes feel some greater commonwealth connection to going overseas, but we’re still pretty “localized” in mindset.
Canadians:
MCMAHON BRENT
REID TAYLOR
SANDERS LIONEL
WURTELE TREVOR
Smart move for the Americans to stay home. Not many podium slots left with this lot going.
It is a great opportunity to get KPR points as well. With the Pro system moving to 4 races instead of 5 for KPR it seems like a great place to pick up points. I mean even a 13th place finish gets you about the same points as winning a major 70.3 (P750)
Pretty sure (correct me if I’m wrong) the change in the KPR qualification was announced after athletes had to accept their spot to 70.3 worlds. So while yes it’s an opportunity to get significant points, the change in the system likely didn’t weigh into athletes decisions. It might have swayed 1 or 2 more to accept their slots though if they’d known.
Pretty sure (correct me if I’m wrong) the change in the KPR qualification was announced after athletes had to accept their spot to 70.3 worlds. So while yes it’s an opportunity to get significant points, the change in the system likely didn’t weigh into athletes decisions. It might have swayed 1 or 2 more to accept their slots though if they’d known.
They don’t have to accept or deny right away, they can wait a bit. I mean there is value in time, I would have waited if I was a borderline decision.
Some time within the last 30 days. Regardless, every pro should know the rules come out are this time of the year. I have been asking about which races will be pro races next year to decide my own schedule at a high-level.
Right, but you don’t get unlimited time to accept your spot. In the case of the 1st cutoff, you have to accept by a specific date (prior to the new rules coming out) and in the case of the roll downs you get 48hrs to accept (for most if not all this was also before the rule change came out). The new rules weren’t out in time to factor them into the decision making process.
Right, but you don’t get unlimited time to accept your spot. In the case of the 1st cutoff, you have to accept by a specific date (prior to the new rules coming out) and in the case of the roll downs you get 48hrs to accept (for most if not all this was also before the rule change came out). The new rules weren’t out in time to factor them into the decision making process.
There wasn’t a 48hrs to accept as far as I know. I did roll down my spot right away this year as I did last year, but in 2013 I sat on my Kona 2013 slot until pretty much the last day I could which was like 1 month later.
My wife was given 48hrs to accept/decline her roll down spot.
Her decision came down to weighing the life experience of competing in a world championship and having to leave her 2 year old child and other commitments for 10 days to two weeks away (finances really weren’t part of the final decision but were discussed). She’s also a crap swimmer so the surf swim was part of the decision - may have also factored for some other North Americans who just can’t swim like those Aussies! In the end she and her coach decided it was best to take a mid season break and build for a fall season and tackle the life experience of her first ironman. Just some insight into one North American pro’s decision. Everyone is entitled to make their own.
Looking at this list, I can’t help but think about this quote from Major League:
Board Member #1: I’ve never heard of half of these guys and the ones I do know are way past their prime.Charlie: Most of these guys never had a prime.Rachel Phelps: The facts are, we lost our two best players to free agency. We haven’t won a pennant in over thirty-five years, we haven’t placed higher than 4th in the last fifteen. Obviously, it’s time for some changes.Board Member #2: This guy here is dead.Rachel Phelps: Cross him off, then.