Have there been any announced changes to the bike course? I’ve heard so many bad things about “Cheatwater” that I don’t know if it’s worth doing. Any opinions?
Yep, folks say they are going to fix. But, seems impossible, based on where the race is, and how many racers they have allowed.
I would be shocked if after the race this year, folks came on and said the drafting issue was resolved, but I could be wrong.
If folks really cared, they would not sign up. For most of us, this is not a life and death activity. There will always be someone
faster, and someone slower, for lots of reasons. Again, who cares about what others do.
Dave
Yeah, I was absolutely shocked at how far the rolldown went at Stealhead. I personally didn’t take my slot cause I don’t race Tri in November. Time for Adventure Racing and Cyclocross. I talked to quite a few people who were there last year and said it was a huge draftfest…I hope they fix it. I am starting to get a lot more voiceful when I get someone on mywheel now a days. I am glad Steelhead was a big improvement from last year. I’ll guess if your taking the lesser of two evils I’ll take blocking over drafting anyday.
I live in area of race and have spoken with some of “those in the know” and definitely changing bike course. They are very aware of problems from last year. Likely changes to wave starts as well but nothing set yet that I’ve seen.
It’s very true that the course was just asking for problems but you never have to draft. I didn’t nor did many many others. It was disapointning to see how many people chose to take advantage of the situation. The nature of the course means those cheaters will be able to do it again so they will.
How do you stop drafting is one has so many folks hitting T1 at around the same time? Seems folks
have posted the physics about distance and number of people. Are you going stop folks from leaving T1?
dave
Of course everyone in all tris is drafting out of T1, 500m later though, you’ve had the time to drop back or pass and if you’re passed you must drop back. It’s hard on the ego but it’s the rules. At speed the draft zone represents a very small amount of time.
What I was really saying in my first post is that people didn’t even try, the just rode as groups of up to 20.
Don’t get me wrong m-dot has a role in this they set up courses that invite cheaters. Have you ever seen the out and back at LP, where are draft marshals suposed to ride? Surprise, that’s where the drafting happens.
I was pretty upset after last years race; so much so that I e-mail the RD and gave him my thoughts. Note that my thoughts included a rather detailed analysis showing that they could have predicted the problems based on swim times, wave seperation, and the placement of age groups relative to each other. The problem, as mentioned above, was the number of athletes leaving T1 together.
I actually got a rather engaged response, and have had several dialogues with race staff since. What I heard is that: they care about the issue, want to fix it, and are working several options. The bike course will change, with more lanes added. Also, there will be more waves, and (I think) more time between each wave. The details as provided to me were enough to make me go ahead and accept another slot this year.
Paul
What I was really saying in my first post is that people didn’t even try, the just rode as groups of up to 20. \
I think you forgot the 1 there, 120 is more like it. Go back and look at some of the pics posted here back then, there were several TDF size peletons photographed during the race. And I’m just guessing here, but it was not that exact moment that 100+ people were passing or being passed. The one with the 3 motorcycles trapped in the 100+ pack was priceless.
All of this was known before the race. They were just indifferent to the athletes race. They have caught enough shit for it, probably unexpected by them, that they are now giving some lip service to this years race. The drafting is always a problem on flat courses, but not staggering waves, close send off times, and few waves just makes it 10 times worse. There will be drafting there regardless of what they do, but they do need to do everything to limit it. Here is the secret formula, not sure why it is such a big one, I been letting it out for decades now, but once again for reading impaired…
- Wave starts for most every AG( it is the so called World Champs)
- Stagger waves according to cycling abilities( fast men group, slow men or womens group, ect. ect)
- Give at least 10 minutes, preferably 15 minutes between starts of waves( they used to do that at nationals, and it worked great. That allows each wave to race only itself, and have plenty of room to pass or be passed with the slower wave buffers)
- Have a good group of marshalls that only follow any trouble spots. If it is all clear with lots of gaps up front, then slowly move back through the race. Make the calls early, and do stand downs on the course. Lets everyone know that it is not tolerated, and given all that extra room, most will move apart.
THis will give everyone to oppertunity to race fair, and a higher probability of getting caught cheating . Of course tougher, hillier courses also help a lot, and a world champs should be more challenging than FLorida, but that is just my opinion
there are now going to be 10 waves and the bike course is 4 lanes instead of two. problems sovled
How does the width help anything?
How many racers per wave? How much time between waves? This is what is needed, not a wider road.
Dave
and the bike course is 4 lanes instead of two. problems sovled
How so?
I did similar to Paul and got the same response.
I was swallowed up and spit out by several packs in Clearwater. I won’t cheat. I know that my 2:20 bike split was done on my own. I really pissed off the first group to catch me because I sat up and let them go instead of jumping in. The second group and thrid group caused me to stop my bike and clip out to wait at the 180 degree turns. The second group was starting to fracture a bit because it was right after the 22 person crack up that sent 14 to the hospital. There are two age group racers who have big time sponsors - you’d all know them - who should be ashamed of their behavior at the race. One female and one guy who I used to have great respect for. One of them, in the add that their sponsor runs, brags about their results - every time I see it I see them tucked in the group. I confronted them in Clearwater and that will probably be the last time we speak to each other. Both were on the podium in Clearwater for their AG and one was on the podium in Kona too. A lot of guys staying at the Hilton who didn’t cheat were talking about what we saw/did. For example, I got a guy from South Africa off my wheel by spraying Gatorade over my shoulder “accidentally” and the next time I saw him he I was lapping him on the run as he was cramping badly.
The race…
Swim: it will be fast. This year it will supposedly have more waves. Strong current moving left to right (toward the pier). Waves were nominal last year. Sand bar about 50 yards off the beach.
T1: grab your bag and run - standard T1
Bike: I liked the course. Needs more marshalls and larger time separations between age groups in the swim to break up groups and possibly a time trial start. I also suggested video cameras and officials at several places unknown to racers. Two 180 degree turns were not fun and I had to stop and clip out as groups ahead of me went around the turn around.
T2: bike catchers - nice touch
Run: I liked this course a lot. Hill/bridge was challenging but the rest is dead flat.
I would have liked to return to Clearwater again but didn’t make it in May and based on some friends opinions of the drafting at the 2006 Steelhead, decided not to try and qualify there.
Good luck in Clearwater. Try to stay in a condo or somewhere away from the beach. The Hilton (although close to the race and very nice) was ~$1200 for 4 days. This November I’ll be on a cruise and for two people…spending $950 out of Ft. Lauderdale for two people, with flight for a 7 day cruise.
Mark, too simple.
You did touch on one comment which is a great example of the lack of leadership in USAT. I have been asking for ages
when is USAT and WTC going to get together and resolve the penality process. I do strongly support the WTC position
that the penality should be a stand down on the course. I understand USAT’s position that only the head official should
be able to implement the call, and I can understand the logic. But, at the end of the day, we need to balance what is best
for the total package. If folks see first hand people getting nailed for drafting, and you pass them at stand down tents,
that will do more to control drafting that any quantity of penalties that are handed out after the race, IMO.
Could a few penalties be wrong? Of course. But, I would much rather have the real time, highly visible results going on
to make folks try to follow the rules.
Dave
I did the race and had a blast, and didn’t draft!
Dave,
I had always been a fan of the WTC “stand down” as well. After Clearwater last year, I also sent an e-mail to USAT. I wound up speaking with Charlie Crawford, the head USAT referee. One thing he pointed out is that with the WTC rules, there is no provision for pulling over or penalizing an entire pack, and standing them all down at once. Since the penalties must be made one at a time, the stand down process actually makes issuing penalties much harder, as the ref is tied up having to stop someone and restart. Summary - his point was that with standard USAT rules, he could have just started writing down numbers of the people in the pack, with penalities issued later.
So after that, I changed my mind. I would have rather had all those guys finish, then get big penalties, as opposed to no penalty and no stand down.
Something to consider…
Paul
- Wave starts for most every AG( it is the so called World Champs)
- Stagger waves according to cycling abilities( fast men group, slow men or womens group, ect. ect)
- Give at least 10 minutes, preferably 15 minutes between starts of waves( they used to do that at nationals, and it worked great. That allows each wave to race only itself, and have plenty of room to pass or be passed with the slower wave buffers)
- Have a good group of marshalls that only follow any trouble spots. If it is all clear with lots of gaps up front, then slowly move back through the race. Make the calls early, and do stand downs on the course. Lets everyone know that it is not tolerated, and given all that extra room, most will move apart.
I think that if they truly embraced 1. and 2. above, then you could have wave starts every 5 minutes . For example:
0:00 Wave 1 - M30-34 (200 participants)
0:05 Wave 2 - W55-59 (25 participants)
0:10 Wave 3 - W 30-34 (100 particpants)
0:15 Wave 4 - M55-59 (35 participants)
0:20 Wave 5 - M35-39 (200 participants)
etc.
This spreads things out and let’s you race only your peers in your wave start. I’d be frustrated if I stuck in one of those W35+, relays, clydes and drunk lawyers all in one waves. 
OPTION 2 - Time Trial Start ala Memphis in May. That would shake things up!
Yes, I have talked to Charlie about this, and other rule stuff.
Let me give another difference. With USAT, an official is NOT supposed to make any comments to racers.
They can only give penalties. With WTC, an official can yell at that entire group to stop it, and guess what,
in most cases they would.
I do not know the right answer, but to not have the leadership to have folks sit down, look at the pro and cons
and then make a proposal, is what I do not understand. Let us races vote of what we think is the best.
Dave
I did the race last year and had alot of fun. Clearwater is a great place to race in November. Good weather and great beaches. Swim was nice, bike course was a bit narrow (two lanes would really help!), and as mentioned above, the run course is really nice. I wil try to do it again next year. Focused on IM Moo this year.
As far as the bike goes, I was in with a decent size “pack” of riders a bunch of times. I had alot of fun attacking the group to try and get away, but of course, it never worked completely. Group riding is easy, but group riding at 25-28mph is still hard! If you just want to go and have fun, try not to get caught up in all this complaining about drafting. I can only speak for the riders around me, but they were strong! The bike course is fast either way.
Also, the mix of foreign competitors was a blast. Met some very nice people from Italy and the UK.
Just my $0.02.
I did the race last year and had alot of fun. Clearwater is a great place to race in November. Good weather and great beaches. Swim was nice, bike course was a bit narrow (two lanes would really help!), and as mentioned above, the run course is really nice. I wil try to do it again next year. Focused on IM Moo this year.
As far as the bike goes, I was in with a decent size “pack” of riders a bunch of times. I had alot of fun attacking the group to try and get away, but of course, it never worked completely. Group riding is easy, but group riding at 25-28mph is still hard! If you just want to go and have fun, try not to get caught up in all this complaining about drafting. I can only speak for the riders around me, but they were strong! The bike course is fast either way.
Also, the mix of foreign competitors was a blast. Met some very nice people from Italy and the UK.
Just my $0.02.
Are you kidding? You cheated and you don’t feel bad about it… and we shouldn’t complain?