I rode my 404 clincher’s on a 50 mile training ride this weekand, as I got them about two weeks ago and this was my first long ride on them, before I go back to my traing wheels and put the Zipp’s away for racing. I know most of the forum is hell bent on tubular’s and would say what a mistake I made with the clincher’s although this is the route I wanted to go, I might try the Tufo tubular clincher’s. After my first long ride on these wheels I noticed I was averaging about 1-1 1/2 MPH faster on the 404’s than on my Richey’s that came on my Cervelo. I thought this was great, as my heart rate was the same as my other training rides. Now I can see why people go out and spend 1,000 plus on racing wheels, these wheels felt great. Thank you everyone for all your help…
I just have to tell you good for you for buying clinchers if that’s what you wanted. I used to ride tubulars and theres nothing anyone could say to convince me to go back to them.
I don’t want to debate the issue or the pros’ and con’s. Just wanted to let you know if I ever get the $$ to get race wheels, they’ll be clinchers also.
I hope the new wheels give you all the speed you need, unless I’m in the same race and then I hope your brakes rub. 
I’m a 404 clincher owner as well and I too was reminded of just how much damn faster I am with them during a race this weekend. I should also add that I train with a heavier wheelset which makes a world of difference when I put on the 404’s.
my race wheels are clincher as well. spinergy carbon ss. who cares. spinergy said more and more people asked for clincher over tubular…EVEN MANY PRO’S!!! so they didn’t even make a tubular in that wheel. i honestly don’t think it’s a big deal at all.
luke
winners ride clinchers too.
Thanks guys, I did alot of research before I made my decsion to buy the clincher’s, and I know Tom D and Bunnyman would spank me for this, there are others such as sweeney and other people including pro’s who go with the clincher wheel set’s. I know this is a topic of debate, and most elite cyclists would go with the tubular’s, I felt more comfortabe with the flip side of the coin.
I know a cat 1 cyclist here in denver co. he told me he hates tubulars and he avoids them at all cost. He is a TT specialist and was like top 50 at nationals! clinchers don’t slow him down. look at the saturn cycling team CLINCHERS.
luke
tubulars do look sweet though without the metal braking surface.
winners ride clinchers too…
I know a cat 1 cyclist here in denver co. he told me he hates tubulars and he avoids them at all cost. He is a TT specialist and was like top 50 at nationals! clinchers don’t slow him down. look at the saturn cycling team CLINCHERS.
luke
tubulars do look sweet though without the metal braking surface.
winners ride clinchers too…
Your friend most certainly had a bad tubbie accident - most times caused by poor mounting.
Team Saturn can not choose their tires…they have to ride what the sponsors tell them to ride.
Do you use the stuff you put in the tires when you get a flat? Or do you run it in the tires all the time for flat prevention?
These day’s wheel’s, like grammer, are a personal choice. There all good product’s these day’s. If you try the Tufo tubular clincher’s my bet is yule like them.
Brent F,
You carry a tube of the stuff, do you also carry a spare Tufo Tubular Clincher? Or just the tube…
Thanks…
Brent F,
You carry a tube of the stuff, do you also carry a spare Tufo Tubular Clincher? Or just the tube…
Also, it looks like the width of these tires in most cases is 19mm and I saw a 21mm. I use 23mm, do you know if they also come in 23’s?
Thanks…
Team Saturn can not choose their tires…they have to ride what the sponsors tell them to ride.
I’m sure Team Saturn can ride whatever they like, but whatever they choose has to be branded for the sponsor. This isn’t anything new, especially with tires, hell I bet there’s only 2 or 3 various tires used in the TdF, yet by looking at the bikes they all have various brand names on them. Look at USPS, they ride “Bontrager” tires (and they don’t even make sew-ups). There are a couple of Saturn riders who ride Cervelo frames painted and labled “LeMond”, etc.
Andrew
Thanks Pal…
Wow, those are impressive performance improvements, but they don’t surprise me. IMHO Zipps are the best race wheels going. No wheels are 100% perfect, but Zipps seem to have the least problems, are the strongest, lightest and fastest. Now, please forgive me, but I will get a little dig in here on you for not getting tubulars. I think you woul dhave enjoyed your wheels more if you had gotten tubulars. They really are easy to work with in terms of mounting and changing flats, they ride nicer and are more flat resistant, are lighter and corner better. I firmly maintain that they are easy to learn to work with. I had a set of 404 clinchers briefly at the beginning of the year just to review my perspective on clincher race wheels. I sold them on E-bay after four rides. I thought the quality of workmanship on the tubulars was so much better than the clinchers. I didn;t like the “gaposis” (gaps) that showed up randomly around the rim where it was glued to the carbon fiber rim section. With the tubulars, you do away with the aluminum rim altogether, a big advantage. And no, I do not use special brake pads for the carbon braking surface and the stopping power is entirely adequate once you familiarize yourself with it- even in wet conditions.
Your right about the stars at the tour level, but Saturn would be highly unlikely to buy another brand and have them relabelled.
Doesn’t Saturn ride Michelins? The last time I checked they made both tubulars and clinchers.
Regarding the tubular versus clincher thing, I’ve done a few races in the rain and I will never use my Zipp 440 (tubular) in the rain again. It’s staying in the car even if it looks overcast. Maybe they have changed something in the last couple of years, but my mid-90’s vintage 440 brakes terribly in the rain. I don’t think there is any significant performance difference between clinchers and tubulars, but chalk up my vote for aluminum braking surfaces…
Thanks Tom, I like many others here respect your opinion and look to you and your post’s as well as your website for good solid advise. I hope your training is going well thanks for all the input…
Doesn’t Saturn ride Michelins? The last time I checked they made both tubulars and clinchers.
Regarding the tubular versus clincher thing, I’ve done a few races in the rain and I will never use my Zipp 440 (tubular) in the rain again. It’s staying in the car even if it looks overcast. Maybe they have changed something in the last couple of years, but my mid-90’s vintage 440 brakes terribly in the rain. I don’t think there is any significant performance difference between clinchers and tubulars, but chalk up my vote for aluminum braking surfaces…
Yes Zipp has changed the surface in the past year or three. I have NO issues with the 909’s in the wet…might just be the Campy brakes though!