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I have a entry level road bike that I equipped with clip-on aero bars for triathlons. I have seen multiple articles about the difference between riding in the drops vs. riding on aero bars on a tri bike, but I haven’t seen the comparisons between a road bike with clip ons to a tri bike. Any idea how much difference there might be around 20mph?
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I have a friend who offerered to loan me his lighter rims and tires for my upcoming IM (CdA). Does lighter wheels and rims make much difference? They are not race or aero wheels, just lighter. The CDA course is fairly hilly.
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I live and train around 4,000 ft. I am signed up for a half IM in Florida and was wondering how bike times will be different going to sea level. More Oxygen=More power output, denser air=more wind resistance. Thoughts?
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A small but appreciable amount of difference if your position is already optimal. A ton of difference if your position is not optimal because the current bike/bar setup does not allow it.
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Lighter wheels - minimal difference. Better tires can be a HUGE difference, but not because they are lighter. Which tires are they?
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Similar, usually a tiny bit slower, depends on the person.
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I have a entry level road bike that I equipped with clip-on aero bars for triathlons. I have seen multiple articles about the difference between riding in the drops vs. riding on aero bars on a tri bike, but I haven’t seen the comparisons between a road bike with clip ons to a tri bike. Any idea how much difference there might be around 20mph?
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I have a friend who offerered to loan me his lighter rims and tires for my upcoming IM (CdA). Does lighter wheels and rims make much difference? They are not race or aero wheels, just lighter. The CDA course is fairly hilly.
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I live and train around 4,000 ft. I am signed up for a half IM in Florida and was wondering how bike times will be different going to sea level. More Oxygen=More power output, denser air=more wind resistance. Thoughts?
- I have a entry level road bike that I equipped with clip-on aero bars for triathlons. I have seen multiple articles about the difference between riding in the drops vs. riding on aero bars on a tri bike, but I haven’t seen the comparisons between a road bike with clip ons to a tri bike. Any idea how much difference there might be around 20mph?
Assuming your fit doesn’t change, the TT bike will be a bit more aero - especially if your roadie has round tubes. The difference probably isn’t as much as you think it would be though.
- I have a friend who offerered to loan me his lighter rims and tires for my upcoming IM (CdA). Does lighter wheels and rims make much difference? They are not race or aero wheels, just lighter. The CDA course is fairly hilly.
The lighter wheels may help a little bit but not much. Personally I wouldn’t risk racing on wheels I haven’t become comfortable with through training.
- I live and train around 4,000 ft. I am signed up for a half IM in Florida and was wondering how bike times will be different going to sea level. More Oxygen=More power output, denser air=more wind resistance. Thoughts?
Its tough to say. I also live at 4000’ + and have raced at sea level several times. The increased air density does outweigh the power gains you’d have from being at a low altitude but in my experience course profile and road condition both seeem to be bigger factors.
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A road bike seats you behind the bottom bracket. Riding on the drops is forward enough to reduce wind resistance. I’m sure that many will disagree, but that’s what I’ve noticed. In my first season I rode a steel road bike and I was always the first non-TT/Tri bike into T2. Just stuck to the drops and hammered like hell. The frame’s geometry isn’t designed to rest on the bars. Just my 2¢.
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Lighter wheels will help in the climbs. Less weight to haul, but that’s about it.
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Don’t forget higher humidity and heat. If you’re coming from 4,000’ to 0’-40’ it’ll feel like you’re breathing water. And you’ll sweat like hell. So hydrate more than you would at home.
Any idea how much difference there might be around 20mph?
The rule of thumb for round tube vs. aero tube - all else equal - is about 1 minute per 40K. Though it depends a lot on the speed you’re going and the particular frames. But I wouldn’t find it hard to believe that say a Cervelo P2 would give you 1:00 over 40K vs. your entry level road bike.
- I have a friend who offerered to loan me his lighter rims and tires for my upcoming IM (CdA). Does lighter wheels and rims make much difference? They are not race or aero wheels, just lighter. The CDA course is fairly hilly.
Not much. Much less than the above. But why not if it’s free? Lighter is lighter, and it’s a bit of psychological boost to have “race wheels” of any sort.
I don’t know the answer to #3.
- A road bike seats you behind the bottom bracket. Riding on the drops is forward enough to reduce wind resistance. I’m sure that many will disagree, but that’s what I’ve noticed. In my first season I rode a steel road bike and I was always the first non-TT/Tri bike into T2. Just stuck to the drops and hammered like hell. The frame’s geometry isn’t designed to rest on the bars. Just my 2¢.
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Isn’t that a bit like being the smartest kid on the short bus?
- A road bike seats you behind the bottom bracket. Riding on the drops is forward enough to reduce wind resistance. I’m sure that many will disagree, but that’s what I’ve noticed. In my first season I rode a steel road bike and I was always the first non-TT/Tri bike into T2. Just stuck to the drops and hammered like hell. The frame’s geometry isn’t designed to rest on the bars. Just my 2¢.
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Isn’t that a bit like being the smartest kid on the short bus?
Darn tootin’.
- A road bike seats you behind the bottom bracket. Riding on the drops is forward enough to reduce wind resistance. I’m sure that many will disagree, but that’s what I’ve noticed. In my first season I rode a steel road bike and I was always the first non-TT/Tri bike into T2. Just stuck to the drops and hammered like hell. The frame’s geometry isn’t designed to rest on the bars. Just my 2¢.
Riding in the drops will reduce wind resistance, nobody will disagree with you there. A road bike optimized to the triathlon position (steeper and lower) fit is going to be a LOT faster and more comfortable/sustainable than riding in the drops.
- Lighter wheels will help in the climbs. Less weight to haul, but that’s about it.
Not really true.
http://flocycling.blogspot.com/2014/01/flo-cycling-great-debate-aero-vs-weight.html
Check out this article to see the differences between road/tri bikes and some equipment changes.
http://www.bikeradar.com/us/road/gear/article/how-aero-is-aero-19273/
- It will help, how much is hard to say.
- Lighter won’t make much of a difference. Better tires will make a huge difference. Search for “Tom A tire crr”.
- Can’t say as I don’t know. Sorry… but spend some time in a sauna so you get a feel for Florida. I know IM Florida is November but still… this is a humid state.
The problem with road bike + clip-ons is that it’s really uncomfortable and the rider loses power because of the compressed torso/leg angle. In the tris I’ve been to, after a few kilometres hardly anyone with clip-ons is still riding in them. The clip-ons then become a weight and aero penalty.
To make it work, you have to get a different seat post that moves the body forward and opens up the hip angle. To optimize this you would also need a decent fit of some kind, ie someone who knows what they’re doing needs to set up the saddle and front end so that the stack and reach is working. The trouble with this setup however is that it puts the rider out over the steerer and creates a dangerous handling situation.
In my opinion if you have a road bike, you should ride it as a road bike and accept the aero penalty. When you get serious about triathlon and can afford it, buy a tri bike.
Sorry but just not true. You can ride a road bike in an aero position.
Not as good as a dedicated tt, no but can be darn good. Not everyone needs to ride steep. You do not necessarily need a different seat post. It does not also need to put you in a dangerous handling position. Hate to tell you but for many years there were more road bike being used at tri’s than dedicated tri bikes. Many of us old farts have put in mjultiple IM’s on road bikes
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A road bike seats you behind the bottom bracket. Riding on the drops is forward enough to reduce wind resistance. I’m sure that many will disagree, but that’s what I’ve noticed. In my first season I rode a steel road bike and I was always the first non-TT/Tri bike into T2. Just stuck to the drops and hammered like hell. The frame’s geometry isn’t designed to rest on the bars. Just my 2¢.
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Lighter wheels will help in the climbs. Less weight to haul, but that’s about it.
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Don’t forget higher humidity and heat. If you’re coming from 4,000’ to 0’-40’ it’ll feel like you’re breathing water. And you’ll sweat like hell. So hydrate more than you would at home.
to your #1…um no.
#2 um not enough to notice.
#3 Heat is not dependent on altitude. Actually at higher altitude you tend to have higher HR and sweat more. Humidity, depends where and when, not altitude
Totally agreed, I rode my Supersix Evo road frame at ~48.5 kmh in a flat 20km TT at the Canada Summer Games. I was really surprised at how well that “frankenbike” stacked up against my Slice once I got the position dialled in. Maybe I lost something over super-bike but not too much.
Sorry but just not true. You can ride a road bike in an aero position.
Not as good as a dedicated tt, no but can be darn good. Not everyone needs to ride steep. You do not necessarily need a different seat post. It does not also need to put you in a dangerous handling position. Hate to tell you but for many years there were more road bike being used at tri’s than dedicated tri bikes. Many of us old farts have put in mjultiple IM’s on road bikes
I agree, there are lots of road bikes in triathlons, including at Ironman distance. In my experience, the vast majority of those riders stop using the clip-ons after a short time.
A friend of mine with a power meter did a 20 minute test after putting clip-ons onto his road bike. He found that is power was 30 watts lower in the aero position than riding in the drop bars. The compressed hip angle was cutting his power.
You can’t ride a road bike with clip-ons without paying a penalty (in addition to the lack of aero frame): discomfort, poor handling, loss of power, non-aero body position, or some combination of those. If there was no penalty, there would never have been a need to invent the tri bike with its specific geometry.
Did not say no penalty but a lot of your points are simply incorrect. I have 6 IM’s on a road bike. Then other on a P3. So I know the difference. I have multiple friends who ride in their clip-ons on road bikes for many many miles. Hell six of us did Seatlle to Portland, thats 209 miles. For the perfect body type and perfect position does a dedicated tri bike faster? Yes. Maybe more comfortable? hmmmm , to many factors. Handling ? Bull shit. I can bomb hills with my bars on my Klein faster than anyone I know on a P3 for example. …and please, drop it on the hip angle, that is not acroos the board. I do not lose 30 watts.
edit…I would be interested in how your friends test was done. If set up was not changed and just slapped on aero bars, hip angle would of been more open than the drops with most bars. Now if he dropped his front end substantially and left his seat, that would be different. The difference between a P3 and my klien was approx finishing 685ish to 650ish with plus 2300 compeitors… Not a big deal for me. (5-7 min 112 miles with zipps)
What was your average normalized power and times on the clip on versus p3 IMs?
The handling issue comes up if the rider pitches their seat forward and modifies the front end to mimic Tri geometry. If you just leave your road fit as-is and simply add aero bars then that wouldn’t affect your handling.
If you’re saying that you can go into your clip-ons without closing your hip angle then I wonder about the aeroness of the riding position. Is your back parallel to the road.
My friend has two road bikes. One is optimized for road. The other he is trying to adapt for time trials. His test was done without pitching the seat forward. When he went into the clip ons he lost power.
Well dude thanks for the fit advice. … Of course I am not as aero on the road bike, that is a given. However I have more power more upright. If you noticed I said my time was slower. But as far as hip angle its no more closed than in the drops. I have been fitting people for years. Though not a pro and F.I.S.T. certified, my buddy created “The Original Fit Kit” oh 30+ years ago.
My first tt bike was in 88. I never said that a road bike is as optimal as a dedicated tt bike. I took issue with your comments about people cannot ride with clip ons on road bikes. Go do S.T.P. Over 10,000 riders and the majority have clip ons.
Yes you are correct, if you rotate you’re whole fit forward on a road bike the slack angle will come into plat, however that was not the topic and my answer to the original post.
You are the one who said most people at tri’s on a road bike cannot ride on their clip ons and that is bull shit. Much more are on a to aggresive position on their tri bike and ride a large percentage on the horns.
A road bike can have clip ons with out a drastic change of position where handling is not an issue. Yes not as aero, but that is not what you posted about raod bikes. Look at a post by a pro (Jordano) a couple above mine. Look at some of the bike splits Scott and Allen put in on road bikes
I didn’t say people can’t ride with clip-ons. I said lots do, and after a short time into the tri, they’re no longer using them. It’s likely because they are set up in a way that is somewhat aero, but uncomfortable and loses power.
I wasn’t giving you fit advice either. I was trying to figure out what you were saying, because it wasn’t adding up. Now you’ve told me: your position in the clip-ons is upright and not very aero. Now it all makes sense.
I said not as aero, not…not very aero. Again look what a pro posted on his tt in canadian summer games above…and your firsty sentence of they do not ride clip ons after awhile is simply not true. I have been doing tri and bike racing for many years. That is a false statement. Again go look at Scott and Allens times…Again I can name 5 people with in 5 miles of me that all have done multiple IM’s on road bikes…