I’d push back on this idea that we universally use “common sense” properly in non-draft racing though. What is common sense to you, may not be common sense to me, and then you have 8 different people all basically using their own interperation of the rules.
So I’m far less actual DL, and far more “create better rules”. If you can’t create better rules for whatever reason, take that out. Which of course we won’t, so then we just all hope that “common sense” is applied, and that’s the whole rub. Too many times penalties are called for stupid/petty (which if rules are rules, ok fine) and very obvious drafting isn’t called. That’s my problem with non-draft; we basically cater to “good” being the accepted baseline and not anything better. So if that’s the case, nah keep that shit out of ITU where you literally have 50 of the best racing every month and so the acceptance of shit rules would hurt the product more than boring DL racing would, imo. You’d have to drastically change race roster numbers if you went non-draft in the current abilites of these athletes. You can’t have groups of 10-30 guys all within the short distances coming out of the water and then expect them to suddenly go race non-draft. LC still has enough distance to “break up” the groups (and LC is now becoming more and more ITUish with the swim “packs”) within the swim that doesn’t really happen in ITU.
It was literally a running joke for what 2/3rd of the T100 season that no drafting penalties were given out, yet it was very obvious “advantages” were occurring.
So again I’m less pro DL and more ummm non-draft has as many issues that your complaining about with DL. (and I know it’s fun conversation piece at this point w/ @Engner66 )
Actual true “non draft” is probaly the correct answer, but that’ll never happen, everyone wants 1st across the line to be the winner, so current non-draft is this hodge podge of allowances in certain segments but not so much in other segments because we deem it “too much” of an advantage, etc. That’s my only push back…RR is obviously a huge step in right direction though.
We can have these argument forever and we have to reckon that we will end up agreeing to disagreeing, some of my points:
-I agree with you that triathlon went the right direction back in the late 90s to go draft legal.
-I disagree that it is the right choice in 2025, we have cameras, drones, race range, tons of technology to reasonably officiate a non-draft race. Before you immediately disagree with me, consider that we did this in Daytona and Miami i.e. a bunch of guys managed to do a race in a short circuit without drafting. How is it any different in an ITU course? Keep everyone on road bikes just push for separation, keep the lap rule, use race ranger. Give some leeway but penalize the blatant drafters.
-The definition of madness is to keep doing the same and expect a different result. You can’t logically disagree with me or anyone that SC is struggling, little coverage, money, views, etc. The only thing that keeps it alive is the attachment to the Olympic which is arguably the holy grail of triathlon. But I am willing to bet that Hayden Wilde’s parting ways with Bahrain and Nike could be related to winning 70.3 Worlds (in addition to Oly’s silver) has given him more exposure and will likely be securing better contracts with other brands. We will find out soon enough if my theory is correct.
-The draft non draft divides the sport and creates “protected species” i.e. the 70.3 influencer type that don’t race SC because the format “doesn’t suit them” getting rid of the draft will force all these folks to race Oly and get smashed by the A level triathletes. Even the most hardcore Mdot obsessed fan realizes this after the last few years of SC athletes domination in mid distance, but at the moment T100 is the one breaking the barriers, let’s make the Olympic races accessible to all athletes, I don’t use sprint in my argument because the influencers would use the short distance as an excuse not to race.
-SC fans make it seem as if any change would be devastating to the sport. I think the only reason they haven’t even tried a pilot or test event is pure stubbornness.
Factcheck (Taupo): he didn’t. Has the 2025 BV team been announced without Wilde?
I cannot imagine an elite standard distance T1 mounting line and draft legal.
Completely unworkable both there and down the road with a train of 50 (because however slow you are in the water there’ll always be a wheel to follow).
He posted on IG the other day saying thanks for the 2 years. They have basically more or less announced the team (shadow images) and none of them were Wilde.
A) I’m not 100% disagreeing with you. When you say Daytona and Miami are a success, that’s the point I already made. You would have to cull ITU start lists from 60 to 30 athletes. You think that is happening when it’s the olympic pathway, unless it becomes a full on schedule of heats/finals approach (so 60 would still get to race, it would just be 30 racing in each heat+final)
B) It’s not stubbornness, again I don’t really give a flip what the format is. Our sport has just yet to show me that “non-draft” is this end all be all answer. Again by default your sport is played out on miles of miles of open roads and less officials to actually officiate the races imo “properly”. We literally see drafting during non-draft events and it’s not called. EVERY race that happens, hell T100 was clowning the lack of calls. And your telling me THAT is the solution? You gotta do better than that. RR is def a +1 game changer, but until they actually start to utuilize the data in some type of “live review” overlord official setting, it’s again only as good as the officials call it on the roads (which we’ve seen they’ve struggled at times with that). So RR needs essentially an official watching the data in live setting to also “officiate” it in some capacity.
C) So my point more goes with, pick a format that you can properly officiate. I just think non-draft has too many sticky issues, as I said we literally allow drafting in swim yet suddenly it’s too much on the bike, so we then try and officate the 1 real leg of the event that is the hardest to officiate. That to me makes even less sense then throwing out the rule book entirely (my solution).
D) Non-draft is basically accepted as the “best of a impossible” situation. It’s a compromise. But no duh, cus it can’t be anything but that with the context of our sport…I’m just saying if that’s the situation, just take out the rules that are hardest to officiate (which then is what DL is).
E) I think the sprint distance will be the Olympic race format by the '32 games (yes that’s been said or rumored since 2011 when I started itu coaching). I think they’ll likley even go heat/finals for a format, which would bring in more SS distances. They already did all the official formalities of asking for that with the IOC prior to Paris, and was denied. That generally means the direction they are wanting to go.
F) The probaly funniest sport to watch in triathlon is probaly short track xterra racing (that was 1 of the tri events, WT went to IOC to ask to add to Olympics prior to Paris).
It wasn’t sand. It was paint on the ground that made that area slippery.
All races have areas that have paint. Including the Paris Olympics.
That was rider error. It sucks. But everyone at the race knew that was an area you had to be conscious of your speed. What i’ve heard is most of the racers really liked the course.
So I think to me it’s less that DL is the answer and it’s that non-draft hasn’t “figure it’s shit out”, so to speak. That’s the whole issue. It’s not that DL is better, it’s that it’s better than the current non-draft setup. And so what are you doing in 2025 to make it better?
RR is a total game changer, but it’s still only being used 50% correctly imo. Add basically a VR official who’s watching the data live and truly make it “eye in sky is always watching you” you can still be penalized with or without an on course penalty there to penalize you…Currently your only in a foul if you are caught (like all other sports). But the difference is that triathlon by it’s very nature isn’t always watching you. Change that and then you have it solved.
Of course they’ll have to figure out allowances, but that is what would make non-draft much more the answer. That solves the issues I see with it currently.
That’s why DL was even the solution for the non-draft issues in the 1st place. Remember DL was only picked to solve the non-draft issues it was having. To me our sport hasn’t really solved the non-draft issues even 30 years later. (We are closer no doubt, RR proves that).
Lastly when you say banging your head against the wall insanity. That is what non-draft is. Again ITU was non-draft. They started out as non-draft and all the “issues” we are talking about made them realize they had to go to DL. So you mention all this technology yet what technology are they actually using 30 years later that is basically is moving non-draft forward? They are so f’ing slow with using technology, I would actually counter your whole argument; that it’s non-draft that hasn’t done much to impove itself from 30 years ago. We have this great RR technology and we have to use that in much more effective ways, but it’s still super early. How do we not have drones out on courses to “alert” officials of athletes cheating, etc? Like non-draft has done little to improve it’s case imo. That’s the issue you haven’t figured out and aren’t addressing. Saying DL isn’t the answer, isn’t good enough. We all accept that DL isn’t the answer, but it’s a hell of a lot better than the current setup that has been basically stagnent since the birth of the sport. Until we actually use the technology, non-draft is stuck.
Has this drafting debate spilled over from another thread or something? I agree with Doc, its absolutely ridiculous to expect non draft will work at this distance and with the amount of athletes starting.
I’m just relaying what was told to me by people riding the course.
There was sand all over. The area with paint was slippery, the other areas were not.
Personally, I don’t think it was so egregious that they can’t hold the race on that course.
I’m with Brooks on this debate. It was the right call back then (to make it draft legal) and it’s still the case now. Hayden was talking to Jack Kelly in one of the latest TTH podcasts and mentioning how different swim dynamics were between World Triathlon short course and 70.3 worlds (or T100), where he only had to battle with 15 athletes at 70.3 worlds to position well, versus 70 guys who can swim fast in ITU-style racing. Not a lot of difference in swim speed between the two at the top end, but just way more fast swimmers in the same space in ITU, and all finishing the swim within 40 seconds.
For me, and I’ve said this before, the answer is to make the individual races more like mixed team relays or Supertri, with more dynamic racing and possibility for changes throughout the race. Which means change the format to the supertri enduro format, but over the olympic or sprint distance.
Swim 750m, Bike 13k, Run 3.3, Swim 400m, Bike 13k, Run 3.3k, Swim 300m, Bike 13k, Run 3.3k. A longer swim first to create some space, then conditions to make racing aggressively and attacking much more rewarding.
I would also love something like: Saturday Time Trial qualification over a distance between sprint and super sprint. Then Sunday Enduro over Sprint distance overall with the top 30 or 40 from qualifications.
I liked the “new” venue, probaly more than the F1 track. I know Pearson is adding T100 to his resume and got the wild card, so he may or may not care all that much for itu (right now). That bike leg is going to be very interesting, it just seems like the last year Pearson’s suddenly lost the ability to hold wheels in the right group. Probaly goes to show you just how much likely stronger the power requirements are over the years and so even “sitting in” can put you on the rivet.
Hell of a race for the GER women and MTR win (haven’t watch MTR yet so haven’t seen how the wreck happened). There just seems to always be interesting dynamics on the bike in the MTR to create havoc on the results.
I chatted with Flora last Spring and in the women’s races, she noted that the bike power requirements had increased a lot over the course of her career… and she noted she has the power files to prove it.
Perhaps that’s the same on the men’s side… though I thought the Brownlees had really started the push on the bike almost a decade earlier than the women’s race?
I think they probaly have which means the number of athletes who could do “brownlee power” were less than a handful 10 years ago. Now that power number is probaly standard requirement in the men now.
He mentioned somewhere, perhaps in the Triathlon Hour or the WTCS podcast, that he’ll be in all but one WTCS race for the year. My impression is that what he’s doing is similar to the full-distance athletes did last year by taking the T100 money, but focusing on another race series.
of course the energy systems used are much closer than , middle distance and long distance .
i guess the bigger problem is he also wants to be a runner in the winter as well , which does not give him a lot of time to work on his weakness.
The WTCS calendar and the T100 race dates (and requiring min 4 +GF) means this is doable without prejudice to either series. World Triathlon Championship Series
February 15 | WTCS Abu Dhabi (UAE)
May 17 | WTCS Yokohama (JPN)
May 31 | Italy (location TBC)
July 12-13 | WTCS Hamburg (GER)
September 14 | WTCS Karlovy Vary (CZE)
September 26 | WTCS Weihai (CHN)
October 15-19 | Championship Finals Wollongong (AUS)
For Pearson the ‘Race to Cutter’ starts with the T100 in Singapore in April, Vancouver in mid June and Frejus at the end, London mid August, Dubai in November (that gives 5 regular season races) and the the GF in Qatar.
If he can’t manage to hold on at the back of SC packs draft legal I cannot imagine how he’s going to manage with a T100 20m draft gap (maybe the ‘West’ scenario). In Indian Wells Stornes rode 4 mins fatser (in 2023) and ran sub 71. Long rode 7 mins faster (in 2023). But good luck to him, after all that work on the TT bike. https://stats.protriathletes.org/athlete/morgan-pearson