2006 Californiaman Full/Half ideas

Triathlon Forum
1

Okay, I have heard from Mary that Andy has said they will do the Full and half distance next year. Since if folks got a better start hat next years race compared to this years, it would be great if there would be a lot more racers!! I do not know about you, but if I had a choice to do a full in the great weather of Davis, the flat course for PR times, the super community support, and the perfect location to take my family for a vacation, the sooner one knows about this the sooner folks bay be able to entice the boss by planning a great vacation!!

Now, I always love to get inputs from folks on how things can be made better. And the best time to do this is when the event, (pain) is still fresh in the mind.

So, to help Mary and J&AProductions out, I would like to start this thread to brainstorm inputs for them to take the race to the next level. I have a whole bunch of ideas that I will get down, but, wanted to start the thread now since it could impact the planning. Again, being a RD for a Tri race in the past, I know that the planning was a 12 month effort, and it was MUCH smaller than this kind of race!

So, what do the ST’ers think? Want to try and help Mary make the Californiaman/caliman race get on the map? It does seem that is the third try does not work, there may not be a forth since no event can be done without making a profit.

Dave

2

I’d like to do the same…but for the Grand Columbian (www.grandcolumbian.com). Please post your suggestions here as well. The GC was the first mid September iron distance race and offers quality matching or surpassing the CA-man…all for over $100 less then the CA-man.

3

Great web site!!! How many years has this been going on? Lets share all the great ideas we can. My more places people and families can race, the more we may be able to stop this over weight issues we are having with the younger generation. (And the older. :o) )

Dave

4

Here’s my $0.02-worth. I didn’t do Caliman this year, so I don’t have direct feedback on this year’s course, but I know the area to some extent and I did Caliman 1/2 last year. Part of the reason I chose to do Caliman last year was the scenery of Folsom. The swim was great, the run on the lake trail was gorgeous, and the finish in historic Folsom was awesome. When the change of venue to Davis was announced my first reaction was that they lost all of the attractive features of the previous year’s event. A flat PR course really does nothing for me. I’t’s not my intention to put down the fine folks in Davis or the city. I’ve heard that the city was very supportive and there’s a great tri crowd there. That said… Davis is not my idea of a destination race. So, with that said, if J&A wants a bigger crowd I think they can do one of two things:

  1. lower the cost, or
  2. put the race in a place that draws a bigger crowd. Put it somewhere that people from out of town and out of state will want to visit for more than a fast race course.

J&A puts on a couple of great races in the south bay area (Uvas and San Jose Intl). Yes, I live in the south bay so I’m admittedly biased, but I ride the Uvas and SJIT bike courses all the time, and if you linked parts of the two of them together and threw in a little trip through Palo Alto’s back roads or the Santa Cruz mountains (such as Arastradero, Alpine, Portola, or even Tunitas Creek, or Bear Creek, Hwy 9 if you want to make it a World’s Toughest 1/2 sort of race) you could have one KILLER IM bike course. There are plenty of places to swim, and some great trail running in the area. Logistically it’s very accessible, and there are major non-tri attractions nearby (Santa Cruz, Monterey, SF, etc). Again, I know I’m biased, living in Los Gatos, but living and training in the area, I can’t help but think that these roads and trails would make an epic IM course. That’s my suggestion :slight_smile:

5

Not to put a damper on your idea, but why do we want more athletes. One of the appeals of races like CAMan and GC is that it isn’t a 2000+ person draft fest.

Redman in OK is this coming weekend. There will be around 150 full and 150 half participants. 300 is a nice number for pre and post race to keep it exciting, but 150 is a great number for keeping the sport an individual sport on the bike.

Make it better, but do we have to make it bigger. I’m sure the RD’s would like it to be bigger, but do the athletes?

6

I agree with you, there are tons of great places. I think the donner area which is up by me is the nicest area that I have done. Swimming in the crystal clear donner lake. Super scenery. Close to Lake Tahoe and Reno. Running through the trees.

But, something like this goes where the people are to do it, and clearly, the mad cows of davis where a huge part. Not sure if it were not for Mary’s energy, if there would even be another full.

Now, maybe I am all wet, but when I think of a destination, I think about the things near the event. Now, living in the bay area for many many years, this is not the first place I want to do. I enjoy the SJIT which I have done the last two years, but talk about people!

So, whatever J&A does, any inputs we can give that is as much location specific would be great.

Now, I did the caliman last year. There was not much parking by the swim. The bike course was terrible!! (and long :o) ) Run course is one I do for many different races during the year.

Would love to have a place with a single T1/T2 location. Mainly for the family and having to park the car.

Dave

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I AGREE. But, there is a certain size to break even to have the race. Maybe Mary can give us some idea what it needs to be. If 200 make them put in the time and energy and make a fair profit, I agree, only last years folks can enter next year. :o)

So, the smaller the better!!

Dave

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Dave, Justin & crew … see if i can give some thoughts from view of athlete, RD & Race announcer etc. (i was there until about 7pm SAT announcing w/ Brad ) Funny, Russ & i were having a similar conversation / brainstorming session about the Full Vineman this afternoon. We are going to tinker around with stuff here too. We are not quite ready to put the oldest ironman distance event in the country (16 years) to bed just yet.

Why more athletes?

More athletes = more fun/interest/excitement on the course … Russ and i agreed that even 400 athletes again would be sooo cool!

More Athletes = More Spectators = more fun/interest/excitement on the course & at the finish line … this brings more folks to the community and easier sell to get those communities on board (or to stay aboard) More spectators can provide more volunteers! I bet even the volunteers at the aid stations etc. would have more fun w/ more athletes.

OK … from an RD standpoint More Athletes = More Money (regardless of where it goes … pocket, charity, community) … i will tell you less than 200 athletes makes for a pretty small budget for these independant races! (at least based off what Russ charges)

Finally … from experience at different levels mentioned in my opening, I know that the little M-Dot means SO much to SO many people!

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They really have to ask whether there is a market for another full IM in CA just a month after Vineman (which DOES NOT sell out!). Vineman is also a superior destination IMO.

I think they could do well with just a 1/2 IM because I’m going to guess that many of the peeps who did the full would have done the 1/2 if the full hadn’t been offered (or they would have done Vineman and had plenty of time to recover for a 1/2). I’d also move the race to the beginning of October so it doesn’t compete directly against the Big Kahuna. Heck, get some sort of deal together with 1/2 VM and Big Kahuna to create some NoCal 1/2 IM triple crown or something. June might also be a good spot to put the race as that slots nicely between World’s Toughest and 1/2 Vineman (not that that World’s Toughest peeps are the type to look for PR courses anyways but still its better to not have a direct conflict). Maybe even late April…before World’s Toughest, way after Ralph’s (thx IMAZ) and nobody gives a damn about Wildflower anymore (nor should they).

ot

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I would love to find a mid-April 1/2 in 2006 - perfect timing leading in to IMCDA.

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Yup. I thought Ralph’s used to be just about right at the beginning of April but I just won’t do a long race at the beginning of March. It seems like any time in April would work pretty well.

15

Livermore. Same weekend as Wildflower. One transition area, Lake DelValle measured swim. 56 mile bike with killer hills and one aid station, and a 13.1 mile trail run with 3 aid stations.

You in? I’m serious. I can make this happen if the crowd is small enough.

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Dave, missed ya. I did not cross the line until 7:16, and was not in much shape to do much.

From an athletes perspective, after doing 18 races so far, here is some of my two cents.

First is the aid stations. Having them every mile is a huge plus. And, I know at every station I stopped at, they have more water and people giving out than I have ever seen. And on top of this, the water was always cold, and they always were offering ice.

I would like the race to be in water that is not salt. Yes, most of us swimmers are wimps. It is nice, whether it is a full or half to all start at the same time. Having to wait about 3 hours to start the half vineman this year, (yes, I was the last group,), or the up to 5 hours at WF oly just really messes up my routine. I understand at the VM this is not much choice. The WF could do a deep water for the half, but the roads with the quantity of folks would be more dangerous than it already is.

I like having my full at the end of my season. I also like having it as late as possible to have the coolest weather possible. It may be an IM, but no reason to try and kill off, or DNF tons of folks.

I would like to have bike aid stations every 10 miles. I did love the bike route on the vineman half. (Did not crash this year)

Would love to have closed roads for the bike!!! TBF races on the bike are tough since there are some crazy drivers out there!!

Would like to see timing mats at the end points so people can not cut the event!

Would love to see a parallel finish line. One path for the “single” folks who want a picture by themselves, and the other side a path where folks can run down with family members. No way could I do what I do without the support of my family!!! This is more important to me than my time. So, this gets into the question as to what type of race is it, and what kind of folks the RD wants to attract. I believe there is a market for the little less hardcore athletes with more focus on the experience than just the time.

Would love to see some video going on. Would be great after the finish to have a place where you could take you family, get some video taken about the race, and then get something made up. This is one of the best parts for me, since I will take all 18 races this season and put it into my next christmas family video!

Good, timely race food before and after the event. Talking to my wife, she really likes the food TBF has. Before she can buy things to eat which when she is happy, I am happy. After the race I love having some many choices of just good plain non fancy food. The hot noodles with just plain sause is the best!!

I location that folks who have RV’s can come and park together!! I have been on the street at the starting area the last two years for the half VM. I always have to wonder how safe this is. Do not need any hookups or anything, just some flat ground.

Making sure the bikes are protected and fenced such that no one can get at them without being a numbered athlete. The half VM does a great job at both T1 and T2!!

Safe clean walking surfaces into and out of the water. I can not stand when I go to a race and cut my foot either before the swim or after.

A web site that is UP TO DATE!! Timely communications as to status. The half VM is great on this.

If there is going to be a pasta dinner before the race, have it the night before, and have it be nice.

After the race, need SHADE. For the half VM, they just was not any place to get in the shade after the race to eat.

Awards. The best ones that I have seen are the TBF plaques going 5 deep. Each race is different. I love having them at work!! Now, for medals, having them be dated is a minimum for the event. Just having a medal or plaque with no dates clearly shows to me cutting corners. I am going to pay to have on my californiaman medal my name, date, and time result.

I would see having all racers get the participation tee shirt BEFORE the race. Just because one DNFs is no reason to not get this shirt. Having a finisher tee shirt is also cool!!

MORE PORTO’s at the swim start!! And extra tiolet paper!!!

Bike racks that have enough space to make sure you can get your stuff next to your bike without killing oneself. Having them numbered in some way is great.

I loved the cow at the end of the CM race. He really deserved big awards!!

The aid station theme and competition was fantastic! Showed great community support!

Getting the results on line the next morning!!

Would be great to have names and pictures of folks on line before the race. This way one could try to find the folks we all talk to on places like ST during the year.

Need to have nice body marking with lots of folks so trying to minimize the lines. I love the J&A big letters.

Nice having a poster that I can take home and put on my wall!

I love the podium, even though I do not get on them very often.

Now, getting flashed at WF is always “exciting”, but am always way to tired to enjoy the view. :o)

Having the swim course so you are not looking into the sun!!!

Lots and lots of nice buoys markers in nice straight lines.

No tacks in the roads.

Okay, thats enough for now.

Dave

17

How are the snakes that time of year?

As a kid I rode my bike many times out that direction. Yep, hills and boy can it get hot in the summer.

Dave

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Accurate distance for all legs!!!, including the swim. On the bike, accurate markings every 10 miles. On the run accurate markings every mile.

Ideally no loops on any of the three legs but I know this is about impossible.

Computrainer bike course so it can be ridden before the race.

Dave

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They once had an official race out there - bud light series or something. The locals on Mines road got bent because the road was closed, race ended and they have never approved another.

Too early in the season for that many snakes…

20

Well, JA could definitely drop the price for Californiaman. As someone mentioned, Grand Columbian was about $100 less as are virtually all of the non-Mdot IM’s.

It probably didn’t help either race that both Californiaman and Grand Columbian were held the same day. The races combined had only about 200 finishers total for the IM distance. I’m thinking that it’s hard enough to get good numbers at a non-mdot. Why have two in the same region on the same day?

It looks like numbers really dropped from '04 to '05 at CaliMan. There were almost 300 racers last year and about half that this year.

I do hope both races continue with the IM distance. It’s nice to have an option if you can’t commit to a race a whole year in advance

21

I have to think there are better roads than that northern loop. Tough, sure. But really rather bleak and kind of depressing. The south/west loop was scenic and nice.

I liked the swim venue (even though it was long!).

Aid stations A+.

Run course was nice, except for that final couple of miles through town and back to the park. No way of getting around it, I guess. The arboreatum was nice.

Need another couple hundred competitors to make it more of a festival atmosphere. Lower price would help.

Overall – I loved it.

22

Swim - Boat launch, hang a right for 750m and turn around.

Bike - Mines road to just before the county line and back.

Run - The fire road to just before the Dam hill and back with the finish line at the green gate by the boat ramp.

Dave

23

Guess the turkeys could chase us.

I was the first official water skier on Lake DelValle when they allowed it for a day. The pits I had a lake in my back yard and was not allowed to water ski on it.

Dave