It can so be done in months. I am focusing on itu races this year. Started my 4-6 days a week swimming in September. I was 1:45/100 swimmer fast forward to just three days a go and i am a 1:14/100 swimmer. To say it takes years it ST bs.
You are either a liar or you are failing to fully disclose your swimming background. Either way, you are misleading the OP.
Real world 101: if you do not have a competitive swimming background, it takes years of practice to significantly drop your swim pace. 2:00/100m down to 1:30/100m is a very significant drop.
Now, if you swam 1:15/100m in HS or college, got fat and slow, then jumped back in the pool for a few months to get back to 1:15/100m, thatās another story and falls under FULL DISCLOSURE.
while some people will be gifted and improve fast⦠your story dosnt give the guide line. Yes, to improve from 45 to 35 in a olympic distance, even at 35minā¦it s pretty dam slow so improvement happen relatively quick. I can get anyone near the 2min mark in a few months just by beating the crap out of them⦠35min is way over 2min/100m. It s border line swimmingā¦playing in the water/doing dog paddle swimming.
Sorry if i m this honest but working with so many athlete and helping them improve there swim⦠it s important to realise that it s VERY simple, drills are just there to make it fun and change things like the pull boy and paddles and all the other toys. In the end, it s a matter of how many Meters you are ready to log in and that is when improvement happen and you get someone into a more acceptable swimming (triathlon) speed. Consistancy over a long period of time⦠no short easy way around it.
I just used an extreme example to prove a point. He was a rower in college and has no flexibility in his shoulders. However meters alone doesnāt lead to āimprovementā. Often it leads to getting really good at being really bad.
By the way from one Coach to another, I wouldnāt tell anyone who swims a 35min Oly they āplayingā or ādoing dog paddleā though.
I dont catter to the mass⦠i work with people that want to commit and improve and dont mind brutal honesty so we can get to hard work and improvement. Yes, it might hurts some, but that s the way i been coach all my life and it s highly effective to say it the way it is⦠my opinion.
are we talking 100m flat out here? 100m at race pace? please clarify
Ding, ding, ding!
I just love these threads where people say I can do such and such per 100. Most of the time what they are giving out is their flat out 100 meter or yard time which is no where near their open water race pace in a triathlon.
So for what itās worth Iāll throw out some of my times but which are a bit more realistic:
100 SCY from the wall - around 1:08
100 SCY from the blocks - around 1:05
100 SCY repeats from wall - around 1:12 on 1:25 interval
200 SCY from the wall - around 2:20
200 SCY repeats from wall - around 2:25 on 2:45 interval
500 SCY from the wall - hold a 1:15-1:18 pace depending on day
So, what does all of this translate to in open water triathlon races. Well, it seems that regardless of the distance (500m up to Ironman), I always hold between 1:30 and 1:32 per 100 meters.
Cruise speed⦠what you can old for 2000m straight no rest. That is what i m refering to. And as the conversation was using āāmāā i hope everyone is talking metersā¦not yards because that is a different ballparkā¦
And for info, i do not suggest any of my athlete to go hard for the frist 100-200m of the swim in a race. You go at your normal pace right from the start⦠it s a half ironman/ironman, why go anaerobic in the first minutes of a 5h-12h day?
Even at the front of the raceā¦pro field, we barely go hard for the first 25m and then settle into the normal cruise speed for the complete swimā¦because going hard at the beginning of the day isnt smart for your overall time if you are concern about finishing asapā¦
I dont catter to the mass⦠i work with people that want to commit and improve and dont mind brutal honesty so we can get to hard work and improvement. Yes, it might hurts some, but that s the way i been coach all my life and it s highly effective to say it the way it is⦠my opinion.
Triathlon needs more coaches you like you jonnyo. Age groupers are always busy making excuses to protect their fragile egoās. Well⦠sometimes proās do it too⦠but not as much.
are we talking 100m flat out here? 100m at race pace? please clarify
I think the OP is talking all out 100m, because he/she said āI canā.
I can swim 1:15 for 100m a few times, no way I can hold that. Although it would be cool, as one poster said, to ātickle the feet of Andy Pottsā
i donāt think so. I think the OP is talking about race pace. the OP states, " If I could get my 100m down to 1:30 I know I can be competitive for my races with my bike and run. " 1:30 for an all out 100 will hardly make you very competitive. 1:30 Race Pace is more likely.
i donāt think so. I think the OP is talking about race pace. the OP states, " If I could get my 100m down to 1:30 I know I can be competitive for my races with my bike and run. " 1:30 for an all out 100 will hardly make you very competitive. 1:30 Race Pace is more likely.
My wife canāt swim 1:30 for 100m, but she has won overall and consistently places in her age. I would say that is competitive. Sheās an animal on the bike and backs it up with a solid run.
Come on guys a little less elitism here⦠Oh nevermind, I forgot where I am posting lol
I think the OPās approach of getting a coach is the best thing. Or join a masters swimming group. If your ācruise speedā is at 2:00 pace, likely it is because your body position and form arenāt severely lacking. Once you are able to get some coaching on your efficiency in the water youāll likely make big gains up front. Then itās a matter of fine tuning all those new skills, drills, and technique things to get that cruise speed down. But realize the percentage increase youāre asking for is huge and wonāt come without a lot of pool time. Itās like saying āI run a 2 hour half marathon right now and I want to get to 1.5 hoursā. Work hard and train smart!
i donāt think so. I think the OP is talking about race pace. the OP states, " If I could get my 100m down to 1:30 I know I can be competitive for my races with my bike and run. " 1:30 for an all out 100 will hardly make you very competitive. 1:30 Race Pace is more likely.
My wife canāt swim 1:30 for 100m, but she has won overall and consistently places in her age. I would say that is competitive. Sheās an animal on the bike and backs it up with a solid run.
Come on guys a little less elitism here⦠Oh nevermind, I forgot where I am posting lol
⦠This is a pretty dumb comment. For every minute you save in the swim, itās a minute slower she can run and still win.
OP: I started swimming in January of last year, from a background of āneverā. My first OWS 1500m was a 33:00 in March. I swam a 38:00 OW 2000m at Kansas 70.3 in June and a 36:00 OW 2000m at 5430 Long Course in August. By early August I was swimming 27:30s for a 1500m. I was āworking hardā and āmaking progressā. And then I realized that I was only swimming 3-4 days a week. I upped it to six times a week through fall semester and then swam 60 times in 60 days over fall break. I went from swmming intervals on 1:45 to swimming 1:30 pace. I swam a 500 last week in 7:20 (1:29 pace) SCY. Iāve got an 800 SCY this weekend. Weāll see.
Short answer: a year. Faster if youāre willing to get in the pool 7 days a week for 6 months.
With a coach and swimming consistantly that is very doable.
Iām 58 and did my last tri in early '80s. That was the last time I had been in a pool. Jan '09 I started swimming 3x per week and by July '09 I could holding 1:30 per 100 doing 2000m at race pace in the pool. No flip turns and no coach. I was on a swim team for one year in hs but was very average.
are we talking 100m flat out here? 100m at race pace? please clarify
Ding, ding, ding!
I just love these threads where people say I can do such and such per 100. Most of the time what they are giving out is their flat out 100 meter or yard time which is no where near their open water race pace in a triathlon.
So for what itās worth Iāll throw out some of my times but which are a bit more realistic:
100 SCY from the wall - around 1:08
100 SCY from the blocks - around 1:05
100 SCY repeats from wall - around 1:12 on 1:25 interval
200 SCY from the wall - around 2:20
200 SCY repeats from wall - around 2:25 on 2:45 interval
500 SCY from the wall - hold a 1:15-1:18 pace depending on day
So, what does all of this translate to in open water triathlon races. Well, it seems that regardless of the distance (500m up to Ironman), I always hold between 1:30 and 1:32 per 100 meters.
Pace quotes should be universally based on a TT, same as you would quote a bike FTP. A 20min swim TT is sufficient to establish an LT or ācruiseā pace. Swim as far as you can in 20 minutes, then use distance/time to figure your average 100 pace. This way you donāt have to specify over which distances you are talking about when discussing 100 swim pace. We usually do these near the middle or end of a workout, makes it a more realistic threshold swim since youāl reach threshold pretty fast at that point.
For me, i started at 2:00/100m. Took about 2.5 year to get to 1:30, another 3 years to get to 1:20s and probably another 4 years to get to 1:15ish. No easy way.
Jonny O. Iāve been swimming for about 3 years. Iām down to about a 1:30/100m over a mile. Not a single 100. I learned a lot the hard way over the past two years.
Iām very interested in this comment⦠āanother 3 years to get to 1:20s and probably another 4 years to get to 1:15ish.ā
I believe that statement. However, I believe that experience is the best teacher. To a guy who is 6-7 years behind you what advice can you give me for getting to 1:15ish. If you could do it over again what would you focus on and what could you tell a guy like me? I know personally I would redo my last 3 years if I knew what I know now.
Btw. Iām swimming about 3x per week and about 10k
Or we could just wait for the OP to clarify instead of speculate. I feel a clarification is in order, I am a U 19 itu athlete. I could swim an all out mile at 1:14ās but would be happy with sub 1:20āS in a race. Being a U19 racer the national races are sprints:( as for me being a liar, check the national Jr. champ results this summer I should be around 1:10ās for 750m and decide for your self. I do have a swimming background, from the ages of 7-9 I swam city pool rec league. I swam the back stroke and was the city champs, I beat a whopping 7 kids;) As for my recent swimming back ground I swam 1-2 days a week from feb 09 to may 09 then took most of the summer off from swimming for various reasons and decided to go for it in September. I will refrain from giving admittedly optimistic options until the OP does clarify a little more about what exactly 1:30ās really mean.
Pace quotes should be universally based on a TT, same as you would quote a bike FTP. A 20min swim TT is sufficient to establish an LT or ācruiseā pace. Swim as far as you can in 20 minutes, then use distance/time to figure your average 100 pace.
Well I canāt say that Iāve ever done a 20 min TT. Itās not something that we do at my masters program. However, the last time I swam a 1650 SCY I did it in 22:13 or a 1:20 per 100 pace. That would be right around 1500 yards or so at the 20 minute mark.
Johnyo - I gave SCY times as thatās what I have in my head right now. My pool doesnāt switch over to LCM for another month or so. If we were to have this discussion in a few months I could give LCM times easily but not be able to remember any SCY times at all.
Or⦠It could happen overnight too. I have a friend who went to masters 3-4 days a week and a year later he was a really strong swimmer with the same stroke flaws. He actually swam SLOWER.
While drinking beer one night we were trying to figure out where his faults were. We came up with one thing to try at his Oly distance tri that weekend and he went from a 45min to 35 min. The result of drinking beer, not time in the pool.
Stick with a good swim coach, video your stroke if you can (PVC periscope with a video camera works well), and do your drills. With swimming, form trumps laps.
Thereās some truth to this (although I think drills are overrated). I dropped from 1:45 to 1:35 per 100 in about a week my just deciding to do one thing different with my arms.
Whenever I see these kinds of threads, Iām reminded of my former teammate Therese. She was a basketball player who had swim for like one summer league season in middle school, and then junior year she got pissed enough at her basketball coach that she decided to quit the varsity team and go be a swimmer instead.
At her first meet after 12 total weeks of competitive swim training in her life, she split something like a 27.3 for a 50 SCY free, and turned around and asked the rest of us if that was a good time. ( at which point, we all jokingly told her that no, she sucked and she had to go faster next time) and she was regularly breaking 1:00 for a 100 SCY by league and state meet that season.
Moral of the story- there is not straight line progression, and some people will have an easier or harder time improving their swim than others. In Thereseās case, she was just an amazing natural athlete who could pick up anything in short order. She ended up going either D2 or NAIA for college because she wanted to play both varsity volleyball and softball, and by all accounts did respectably in those sports at the university level.
Hey, OP here let me clarify. I can swim 2:00/100m for a 10x100 set with about 15sec breaks. I have the aerobic capacity to go faster but when I try to, I donāt go faster despite the effort, so Iām sure thereās some sort of technique flaw. I have very inflexible ankles and when I kick with a kickboard, I barely move. In terms of being in shape, I can run low 18s for an open 5k and averaged 232w for 2x20min FTP sessions on the trainer and PT, which is with about 2months of winter training. I have no swimming background but do have some natural athletic ability, I was a descent Basketball player in high school, which probably does help with swimming at all. Iāve tried to develop the early catch, elbow bend and more body roll with some success by watching youtube clips and other internet sources but decided I probably need a coach to really improve. I will say that the other day, I tweaked my stroke alittle bit and my lats will burning like crazy, which I saw as a good sign as Iāve been trying to engage my lats more. I felt like I was going faster but couldnāt keep it up as my lats just gave out pretty quick, which struck me as odd as I have a fairly built upper body. FWIW Iām 5ā7 140
I love how these threads degrade so quickly into something that will demotivate a newbie and make him feel like crap. Oh yeah itās easy to go from swimming 1:45/100 to 1:15/100, I did it in 3 months, anyone can do it, blah blah blah.
Just ignore all of that stuff.
Get a coach or find a masterās program, go 3-4 times a week or more if you can. Get to know the other people in the pool and be friendly with them. Cut back on your running and biking if you need to, your gains in swimming will more than make up for anything you lose there (and you probably wonāt lose much, if any). And as jonnyo said, be prepared for this process to take years. You need to enjoy swimming and make it your sport. Learn how to swim all 4 strokes, learn how to kick, learn how to train like a swimmer trains and you will improve. You are never going to be Andy Potts but you donāt have to be to do well in your hometown races, you just need to swim at the level of an average 16 year old HS swimmer and you will blow 80% or more of your AG competition out of the water because theyāre spending all their time biking and reading about aero gizmos on slowtwitch. You will also achieve a more balanced fitness than you can just by running and biking. And more than that you will gain a great hobby that you can continue enjoying long after your knees and feet have worn out from running. Not that thereās anything wrong with running, but when youāre 70+ youāll probably be better off swimming.