10x2' vs 7x3' for increasing FTP

Triathlon Forum
1

When I do the 10x2’ intervals I can hold around 5%FTP more power than when doing the 7x3’. That’s considering the same “best I can do” effort/intensity for each workout.

Someone told me that even considering I can do more power on the 10x2’, the 7x3’ would be a lot better for increasing FTP because the total time in anaerobic heart rate would be higher, as at the beginning of each interval there is some time required to reach anaerobic heart rate zone.

Any thoughts on which of the two would be better for increasing FTP.

2

I know people do them, but it takes may heart rate the better part of a minute to respond to a 2’ interval. Not sure what you are holding, but assuming it is in the 110 - 120% ftp window.

Everyone is different but I would think you will get more time at elevated heart rate doing a 105 - 115% ftp 3’ interval. Try extending it out to 4’ and drop recovery to 50% of working time.

3

10X2’ and 7X3’ at 105% aren’t much good for increasing your abilities at FTP

You’re likely to get 4 to 7 minutes of work done near FTP with the 10X2 and 10 to 11 minutes with the 7X3

Now if you did those at VO2max efforts, you would/may increase your abilities at VO2max laying the groundwork for increasing FTP with effective FTP intervals
.

4

just for clarification, both are being done at VO2max zone (110%-120%), I didn’t mentioned I was doing both of the intervals at 105%, I mentioned that when doing the 10x2’ I can hold 5% of FTP more power than when doing the 7x3’. So 5% of FTP is the difference in power I can hold for each of the workouts. Thanks

5

**10X2’ and 7X3’ at 105% aren’t much good for increasing your abilities at FTP **

You’re likely to get 4 to 7 minutes of work done near FTP with the 10X2 and 10 to 11 minutes with the 7X3

Now if you did those at VO2max efforts, you would/may increase your abilities at VO2max laying the groundwork for increasing FTP with effective FTP intervals

wouldnt that depend on the recovery between intervals?

Once at week (at the moment anyway) i have been doing 12x2 mins stepped (so 1min@ 105% then the second minute @110%) with 1min easy in between. After 12 rounds in the TT position im shattered haha.

6

Then I read your intended workout incorrectly,

In that case they would both be effective in your quest to increase FTP. The 7X3 would likely be more stress at VO2max than the 10X2 but that depends on the rest between them and your ratio between FTP and VO2.

7

With that short rest between your intervals I can see that being effective workout.

Perhaps something you can try and may like:

30X(:15@140% FTP 1:45@80% FTP)

Keep that 1:45 at 80% to keep the HR up

I’ve done this a few times but I’m training for Xterra where short intervals of high power are necessary.

Example:
https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1876265806

8

just for clarification, both are being done at VO2max zone (110%-120%)

Most people need 2-2.5 minutes just to reach VO2max, so the 10x2’ might not help much. Now stretching the VO2max intervals out to at least four minutes will do wonder.

9

I’m more like 90 sec for the first one and then if the rest interval is short, I can get back up within 30 seconds for the subsequent intervals.

But I agree that 2 min is really short

10

what %FTP would you think is the minimum for those 4min intervals to be effective?

11

4min intervals are generally done between 112-115% FTP with a 2-min rest in between.

12

I’d probably schedule neither the overwhelming majority of time when scheduling vo2 intervals
.

13

Are you doing draft legal racing, or sprint distance?

I ask because I see a lot of triathletes, who are focused on Olympic or longer distance, fall into the “FTP trap”. They (rightly) want to increase FTP. They want to measure it often, but 1 hour is just too long, and too taxing. So they start measuring using an short test (5-20 minutes). Then pick workouts which optimize their ability to produce higher power over the shorter time.

When you get to the end of the race, nobody is going to say “hey, you finished 10 minutes down, but we are declaring you winner because, man, your 5 minute FTP is really high”. So be sure and focus on the workouts that actually make you faster, over your given race distance.

If you are racing Olympic or longer, I’d think about 4x10min, 2x20min, and (sometimes) 1x1hour. The short/fast intervals are OK in early season, but it is August.

If this doesn’t apply, because you are racing short distance and/or draft legal, sorry for the diversion.

14

They (rightly) want to increase FTP. They want to measure it often, but 1 hour is just too long, and too taxing. So they start measuring using an short test (5-20 minutes). Then pick workouts which optimize their ability to produce higher power over the shorter time.

Yep, I did a bunch of work last year to push up my FTP (as measured by the 20-min test), it went pretty well, got a nice big bump, but there was no way I could actually hold it for anywhere near 60 minutes.

This year I’ve been trying to reduce the delta between the 20 minute & 60 minute power with longer times at high power. Initially holding ~85% of (20-min derived) FTP for an hour was a challenge, after a few months that’s closer to ~95% of FTP. Fully rested 100% is on the cards.

So 10x2’s, 7x3’s etc… Depends on what you want (20 or 60-minute power) & what’s currently limiting you.

15

I believe stephen seiler’s study showed 4x8’s achieving the biggest bang for the buck.