100 mile ultra...How close to a Ironman?

Triathlon Forum
1

I’m taking this year to work on the things I learned at Ironman Maryland last year. My longest race this year will be a 70.3 but I am intending to do Maryland and placid next year. I’m also batting around the idea of a hundred mile ultra. But I’m wondering how close TimeWise I can do that and be recovered for one of the ironmans. Maryland and placid are already only 9 weeks apart.

Also does anyone have any input on how this would affect the rest of my training.
Or should I just push it back another year too when I can strictly focus on running?

2

I do not know about recovery time from a 100 to IM…but there is no comparison . Kinda like comparing a 5k to a marathon.
How old are you? How conditioned to trail running? What ultra?

I went from a 12 hour IM in June, to going to do a very technical 20 miler. over 7,000 ascent, over 9,000 descent in August (many years ago) . It was the first trail run I evr did and thought, I am an Ironman, 20 miles should be easy. It freakin destroyed me.The downhills destroyed my quads. So a lot will depend on age and specificity training.

3

I’ll be turning 40 this year. I’ve been doing triathlons six years now but before that I was doing 30 and 40 mile trail runs.I’m signed up for some ultra trail runs next year as well in the early part of the season but have never come close to a hundred miles.

4

I’m no expert, but i have the feeling that training for a technical 100 miles ultra will turn you into an indestructible slow running machine.

So assuming no injury, you could probably an IM within few weeks… but don’t expect too much from your time.

5

Then you know plenty about trail running. Recovery is going to be very individual. Can be done though. If you have done 40 milers you can do it

6

Theres too many variables to list when it comes to recovery time between events. Most important is previous running/triathlon experience and mileage. As to how it will affect your training it depends on what your current training is like. If your current IM training runs have a lot of speedwork/tempo to make you faster and qualify for kona then training for the 100 miler isnt gonna help that goal. If your current IM training is just you basically going out for a couple runs a week then training for the 100 miler wont hurt. As said before, training for a 100 miler vs training for an IM is as different as training for the mile vs marathon. If you want to KQ, focus on that. If all you care about is finishing IMs and finishing the 100 miler then do both.

7

I’m taking this year to work on the things I learned at Ironman Maryland last year. My longest race this year will be a 70.3 but I am intending to do Maryland and placid next year. I’m also batting around the idea of a hundred mile ultra. But I’m wondering how close TimeWise I can do that and be recovered for one of the ironmans. Maryland and placid are already only 9 weeks apart.

Also does anyone have any input on how this would affect the rest of my training.
Or should I just push it back another year too when I can strictly focus on running?

Recovery and optimum training loads are not only massively variable between individuals, but also highly variable across an athlete’s career.

How many of your 6 years doing tri have been IM racing and how many have you completed?Similarly, how many years of ultras and how many races?
What is your running history, injury history and past training?
What will your training be the for miler? How much cycle and swim training will be incorporated into it?
What are your goals for IM next year?Which is more important to you next year? IM or the miler?What is the course for the miler like? Trail? Road? Elevation? Not all milers are created equal.How do you recover generally? Have you done much long racing on short-arounds previously
Currently, my recommendation is either “forget about it” or “go for it”. I wouldn’t want to give firmer advice than that based on what you’ve told us.

Edited: just realised your second post was from you, not someone else.

8

Having said that, I’d do it. Or at least I would have done so previously with no hesitation.

9

I did IM Cozumel in November 2014, a completely flat 50 mile ultra in March, and then IM Lanzarote in May.

Times were around 12:45, 8:30, and 13:30. The 50 miler was about as tough for me as an easier IM. I was completely fine doing an IM two months later aside from the fact that I did not prepare at all for those Lanzarote hills.

I can’t imagine doing a technical ultra or a 100mi, though.

10

I did IM Cozumel in November 2014, a completely flat 50 mile ultra in March, and then IM Lanzarote in May.

Times were around 12:45, 8:30, and 13:30. The 50 miler was about as tough for me as an easier IM. I was completely fine doing an IM two months later aside from the fact that I did not prepare at all for those Lanzarote hills.

I can’t imagine doing a technical ultra or a 100mi, though.

It’s a thoroughly different beast. And a beast it certainly is.

11

I’m taking this year to work on the things I learned at Ironman Maryland last year. My longest race this year will be a 70.3 but I am intending to do Maryland and placid next year. I’m also batting around the idea of a hundred mile ultra. But I’m wondering how close TimeWise I can do that and be recovered for one of the ironmans. Maryland and placid are already only 9 weeks apart.

Also does anyone have any input on how this would affect the rest of my training.
Or should I just push it back another year too when I can strictly focus on running?

Recovery and optimum training loads are not only massively variable between individuals, but also highly variable across an athlete’s career.

How many of your 6 years doing tri have been IM racing and how many have you completed?Similarly, how many years of ultras and how many races?
What is your running history, injury history and past training?
What will your training be the for miler? How much cycle and swim training will be incorporated into it?
What are your goals for IM next year?Which is more important to you next year? IM or the miler?What is the course for the miler like? Trail? Road? Elevation? Not all milers are created equal.How do you recover generally? Have you done much long racing on short-arounds previously
Currently, my recommendation is either “forget about it” or “go for it”. I wouldn’t want to give firmer advice than that based on what you’ve told us.

Edited: just realised your second post was from you, not someone else.

All great questions.
1.Several 70.3s and IM Maryland with a shameful time.
2.Would do ultra trail runs on and off for a while
10 yrs intermittent. 35/40 miles
3.Goals… I would like to shave off over 2hrs when I rerun IM Maryland. Placid I have no clue.
My recovery is not great now a days because of my job. 15 yrs ago I would do alot of high-intensity intervals training ( didn’t no any better) but legs weren’t always being taxed. I will say the changes I have made after Maryland are already leading to alot more quality work outs.
IM placid will be the A race!
4.Course im considering is the viaduct 100. NE PA.

Not sure if this answers all the questions…

12

You either care about doing your best at the IM, or you care about doing stuff you want to do.
Pick which matters most.

I ran a 100km race once and I didn’t feel ready to really train normally again for two weeks. 100 miles is a whole different beast.

13

I’m taking this year to work on the things I learned at Ironman Maryland last year. My longest race this year will be a 70.3 but I am intending to do Maryland and placid next year. I’m also batting around the idea of a hundred mile ultra. But I’m wondering how close TimeWise I can do that and be recovered for one of the ironmans. Maryland and placid are already only 9 weeks apart.

Also does anyone have any input on how this would affect the rest of my training.
Or should I just push it back another year too when I can strictly focus on running?

Recovery and optimum training loads are not only massively variable between individuals, but also highly variable across an athlete’s career.

How many of your 6 years doing tri have been IM racing and how many have you completed?Similarly, how many years of ultras and how many races?
What is your running history, injury history and past training?
What will your training be the for miler? How much cycle and swim training will be incorporated into it?
What are your goals for IM next year?Which is more important to you next year? IM or the miler?What is the course for the miler like? Trail? Road? Elevation? Not all milers are created equal.How do you recover generally? Have you done much long racing on short-arounds previously
Currently, my recommendation is either “forget about it” or “go for it”. I wouldn’t want to give firmer advice than that based on what you’ve told us.

Edited: just realised your second post was from you, not someone else.

All great questions.
1.Several 70.3s and IM Maryland with a shameful time.
2.Would do ultra trail runs on and off for a while
10 yrs intermittent. 35/40 miles
3.Goals… I would like to shave off over 2hrs when I rerun IM Maryland. Placid I have no clue.
My recovery is not great now a days because of my job. 15 yrs ago I would do alot of high-intensity intervals training ( didn’t no any better) but legs weren’t always being taxed. I will say the changes I have made after Maryland are already leading to alot more quality work outs.
IM placid will be the A race!
4.Course im considering is the viaduct 100. NE PA.

Not sure if this answers all the questions…

OK. :slight_smile:

So the races are Viaduct 100 in mid July, LP IM two weeks later (Go on, I dare you! :wink: ), and IM Maryland in late September.

You’ve chosen a good 100 miler for your first. Not too demanding, at least as far as milers go. Though it will still knock you about a bit. Milers do. Even more so for newbies.

When I asked about recovery, I was wondering how you pull up after 30 or 40 mile runs, not short intense efforts. It’s your body’s ability to handle the long stuff that’s relevant to what you want to achieve.

It sounds like you have a reasonable running base to progress to a 100 miler, though I do wonder if your time frame may prove a little rushed if you’re trying to combine it with tri training.

I think the keys to success at both Viaduct and Maryland will be:
Staying uninjured. It is the most important. It always is. Consistency trumps everything and injury is the enemy of consistency.
Finding the balance between ultra training and tri training will be “interesting”.

Preparing for the miler is most important. It is the hardest race to finish on your calendar.
Run some 50 milers this summer. At least two of them. Maybe an early season 50 next year as well. You will learn a lot, from both the racing and from other runners. This is the type of running and knowledge that will get you through the 100, physically and mentally.
Keep up your tri training this summer with your 70.3, but also start building some distance into your long runs.
Swim once a week over winter and spring. Also cycle a couple of days a week if possible. Maybe even try dialing back the running for one week a month and just train like a triathlete to give your body a break from the ultra training.
After the miler, it’s about recovery. You can get back to swimming (and walking) in the following days, then cycling and then running as the body allows. Then it’s simply about IM training. You will have 2.5 months. Plenty of time to recalibrate your training and racing.
And have fun.

14

Wow, what a thread to watch. I’d sooner go over Niagara in a barrel. If I did survive, I probably wouldn’t feel as bad and without the pain of preparation. Is this a situation where it would be prudent to notify the proper authorities… or will nature limit the losses?

15

The last part of your original post is key.

Push it back a year to when you can focus on strictly running.

Its not apples to apples but I did IM Texas 2018 as part of training for the Leadville 100, literally not even close in terms of recovery time or demand placed on me mentally or physically. Being up and running for roughly 24 hours has a toll on the body you don’t understand till you do it.

My thoughts, having done similar and vkached athletes through similar plans.
Spend this year getting faster in the IRONMAN races, then transition to a full season of run training in prep for the 100 miler.

I do find that IRONMAN cam be a useful tool in early training for 100 milers. It allows you to get a long 10+ hour day in without the cost of running for 10-15 hours in training. That said the classic advice to run a couple 50s before you do a 100 (preferably more than 2 months before in my opinion) is invaluable to learn some of the mental skills you will need for 100.

16

The last part of your original post is key.

Push it back a year to when you can focus on strictly running.

Its not apples to apples but I did IM Texas 2018 as part of training for the Leadville 100, literally not even close in terms of recovery time or demand placed on me mentally or physically. **Being up and running for roughly 24 hours has a toll on the body you don’t understand till you do it. **

My thoughts, having done similar and vkached athletes through similar plans.
Spend this year getting faster in the IRONMAN races, then transition to a full season of run training in prep for the 100 miler

Some good advice above.

I do find that IRONMAN cam be a useful tool in early training for 100 milers. It allows you to get a long 10+ hour day in without the cost of running for 10-15 hours in training. That said the classic advice to run a couple 50s before you do a 100 (preferably more than 2 months before in my opinion) is invaluable to learn some of the mental skills you will need for 100.

Yes, without the cost of 10-15 hours of running, though also without the invaluable benefits that you mention.

17

My wife and I have been discussing it this morning. I think to have the race I want at placid and the redemption at MD the viaduct is going to need to wait a yr. I think what I will do is crew for a buddy if he does it. I do plan to on some 30/40s but it’s just way to close to placid. To be honest when I started this thread I was somehow under the impression that the viaduct was in June.
With that said what is an average run week look like for a miler.?

18

Agreed. That’s why I think IRONMAN is a useful tool in the early part of 100 mile training. Then including 50s to get a more specific prep.

Especially I have found with athletes who have less years of running and generally less run volume IRONMAN cam be valuable to build up duration.

19

With that said what is an average run week look like for a miler.?

Ideally, as much as you can without breaking.

There’s always people who can do it on relatively little, say 60 miles a week. In my experience, those individuals are outliers and more likely to be very efficient and strong walkers, more often with a longer history of ultra running.

I’m thinking 80 miles might be closer to the average, with 100 not at all unusual.

20

I’m at the lower end of my volume training plans at the moment and I’m walking roughly 35 to 40 miles a week and running an additional 25 to 30
.