jambo all,
anybody know what an optimal effort level would be for a 25-mile TT, given a max HR of 188, and an LT of 176? i ride a 10-mile TT just at LT, +/- 2-3 bpm. i am assuming that a 25 should be ridden at a slightly lower level…is that right?
thanks for any advice,
toad
5% lower effort overall, ramp up the first 5-10 mins, then hammer it
.
Someone correct me if I’m wrong but LT should be about an hour effort, thus your 25-mile tt should be at about your LT and your 10 mile effort should be higher. One test for LT is a 20 min all out effort and subtract 5% of power from that effort, so your 10 mile should be about 5% harder than your LT.
LT for running is something around half marathon pace. You should be able to ride well above LT for a 40K. For a 10 miler, you should be tasting blood in the lungs from about the 2 minute mark on. You should know what anaerobic riding is after a 10 miler because you should be flirting with it the whole time, pushing a bit past it repeatedly, then backing off that “red line”.
I think it was Kent Bostick a few years ago who said he used to ride a 40K by driving his speed up as high as he could, recovering a bit as the speed faded, then driving it up. Again and again and again. He repeatedly went anaerobic, then recovered quick, and did it again. Painfull ass way to ride, but he could “recover” while he was riding a speed a bit faster than his competitors could hold by riding a constant effort. Interesting but effective and painfull strategy. Bostick is a stud.
Ironically I am doing a 10 mile TT on Wednesday. So my LT HR would be my 10 mile avg hr divided by 1.05?
The last ten mile TT I did my avg hr was 172, so from that I would have a bike LTHR of about (172/1.05) 164.
That was two years ago, so I would be interested to see how it will be tomorrow.
Thanks,
RF
What’s you max HR?
I did a 10 miler last Thursday - 1st of the year so I’ve got some upside! My max HR is about 197. I was 169-172 for the first mile. We hit a small incline that I hammered hard and drove the HR to 182, a bit over the red line. Held 179-181 the rest of the way. By the end of the season I will be holding 185-186 with bursts around 190, with a bit higher HR on hot days (maybe 2-3 beats/minute) (it was cool last week).
Thanks for the follow up, Max on the bike I have seen is 186, on the run I can get it up to 192, before tunnel vision starts.
Peace, & Thanks,
RF
I would think you should be able to hold low to mid 170’s in the later stages. You’ll soon find out!!
correct me if i’m wrong - but isn’t the lactate threshold is the point where the lactate can no longer be metabolized at the same rate as it is produced and thus accumulates (levels ~> 4mmol/l)?
therefore it wouldn’t make much sense to ride much harder than LT pace, bc of the negative effect that the lactate/blood ph itself has on the muscle physiology.
True, your lactate levels will continue to rise. You can’t do that indefinitely, but the trick is to find out just how much faster you can go by entering that zone than by sitting on threshold. If you run a 5K at LT, you aren’t going as fast as you can, and the same holds in a 10 miler, and even a 40K.
Max of 200
LT of 170
10 mile at 180-185
25 mile at 170-ish+
JB
.
I typically average about the same. The difference will be the ‘arc’ of my efforts. I will start out more gently and let it build more gradually. I end up spending longer in the upper red zone, but thats only about 20 mins. eg my max is 197, I generally average around 185 if all is well.
10 mile: start 178-180, spend most time at 185, finish low 190s
25 mile: start 170ish, build to 185 by turnaround, and then hammer in as best I can… (dontcha just love that metalic taste in your mouth!)
hi,
i figured out my LT by riding as hard as i could maintain for about 30 mins, and averaging my HR for the last 20 mins or so. that number is about 174, and i find in a 10-mile TT, i can bump up to about 178 for a bit, but not too long, or i start slowing down. in the 10-mie TT, i float between 172-178. for me, that level of effort is not sustainable beyond the 23:30 or so that it takes me to ride 10 miles, so i can’t imagine going much harder. the question is, how much lower should i go for the 25?
thanks for any input (and thanks for the input above!)
toad
For a 10 mile TT with a max of 188, you should average more than 172.
I agree with the posters that said you should be about 5% higher than LT.
Heck its 21 minutes, just let er’ rip.
My TT advice has always been go out slow and fade at the end…
…or sit in and win the feild sprint.
-SD
Thanks for insight. All set to go for tonight! I am going to try and keep the hr pinned in the mid 170’s and see how it goes. The advice I have gleamed from here is:
Warm up really well.
Ramp your speed up and do not tilt in the first mile.
Its only 10 miles, let it rip.
Its a fast course, the time trial is held at the Lowes Charlotte motor speedway. I am assuming with the banks there will be little wind and the course is abviously flat, unless I take her high into the turns ;-). Its 7 laps so I am going to be taking my splits and avg HR per lap.
Peace,
RF
Oh man, I forgot the best advice of all. You had better put on the “donut face” the last 5 miles. You know, the one with your eyes squinted shut, mouth wide open gasping for air, and all that white stuff lathering around your mouth lookin’ like powdered sugar. If you aren’t riding with the donut face at the end, you’ve wasted your time.
My final advice - FIND THE FACE!!! Let er rip and meet the pain.
Oh man, I forgot the best advice of all. You had better put on the “donut face” the last 5 miles. You know, the one with your eyes squinted shut, mouth wide open gasping for air, and all that white stuff lathering around your mouth lookin’ like powdered sugar. If you aren’t riding with the donut face at the end, you’ve wasted your time.
My final advice - FIND THE FACE!!! Let er rip and meet the pain.
It’s funny, but I’m quite the advocate of this myself. I’ve actually practiced this face, a lot. There are plenty of folks out there who will tell you to keep your face relaxed at all times, but if you really understand what this face is all about, you can do it and be fairly relaxed. You basically “flex” your cheeks as if you were doing a huge fake smile. Your top and bottom eyelashes touch, and kind of make the light all glimmery like, but you can focus much better, I think due to the fact that your field of vision is reduced to a much smaller area. You also want to slightly pucker your lips/mouth, so you can exhale a large amount of air very forcefully and efficiently. Your forehead muscles should be fully engaged as well, lifting your eyebrows up as high as possible so you can have your head down as far as possible, or chin in as far as possible, which is a more efficient way for the body to be aligned, but still be able to see up the road.
I wouldn’t call it a donut face so much as a cat face.
Sojourner,
You wouldn’t happen to have any pictures of the cat face, would you? I have a horrible picture of my donut face the last mile of IMFL two years ago, and was thinking about starting a “donut face” thread, but didn’t want to have the only one.
Oh man, I forgot the best advice of all. You had better put on the “donut face” the last 5 miles. You know, the one with your eyes squinted shut, mouth wide open gasping for air, and all that white stuff lathering around your mouth lookin’ like powdered sugar. If you aren’t riding with the donut face at the end, you’ve wasted your time.
My final advice - FIND THE FACE!!! Let er rip and meet the pain.
Should this post also be linked to the “sex and training” thread?