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Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs
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I don't get ultra-endurance snobs, especially slow ones. People who think they're awesome because they did some really long race, but think that short events aren't real.

I can't be the only one who gets tired of this, right? Here's the gist of the rant:

Race whatever distance and whatever sport make you happy, but donít ask me to respect the fact that you can shuffle along for a long time, barely breaking a sweat, chatting with your friends and treating aid stations as a buffet table.


And you can read the rest of it here: http://www.athletesontrack.com/?p=583

Steen Rose
http://www.athletesontrack.com
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [AthletesOnTrack] [ In reply to ]
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Raise your hand if you really give a rat's ass......yep, don't see any hands raised so let's move on to the next subject.

Seriously, why do they bother you?
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [IronLance] [ In reply to ]
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I agree. Let's lock this down and move on.
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [Power] [ In reply to ]
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http://www.teamintraining.org/...ches/Coach/triathlon

Wow, this post is really annoying now......
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [Fruitcake] [ In reply to ]
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Guess I don't see what coaching slow people or beginners has to do with bemoaning a direction in our sport that somehow Ironman is legit and short course isn't. In fact it's part of the reason why so many people jump to long course before they're ready.
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [AthletesOnTrack] [ In reply to ]
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"Race whatever distance and whatever sport make you happy, but donít ask me to respect the fact that you can shuffle along for a long time, barely breaking a sweat, chatting with your friends and treating aid stations as a buffet table"

I think you may just need to be a little more clear in your stance and wording. According to this line, you aren't respecting probably 25% of TNT'ers that you either coach or are associated with (and I'm not taking a shot at TNT, I fully support it). A lot of these guys that are truely BOP treat aid stations as buffet tables like it or not. Again, not dissing on TNT, just stating a fact.
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [AthletesOnTrack] [ In reply to ]
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I believe a lot of people like to hide behind the mystique of a marathon or an Ironman
and really don't care how badly they perform. Maybe they like being slow.

Very few "regular" people will ask or care how long it took you to run your marathon or to finish
your IM. They won't call you on your slow time because that don't know what
a respectable time is.

If over the weekend I finished a marathon in 6 hours and you ran a 5k in 17 minutes guess who
gets the most kudos from our co-workers? Me. After all you just ran for 17 minutes, anyone
can do that.

Find out what it is in life that you don't do well, then don't
do that thing.
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [pattersonpaul] [ In reply to ]
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Does this go under the phrase (If you never did it, you don't even have a clue what you are talking about) go back to your cubicle and cry
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [usmultisport] [ In reply to ]
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usmultisport wrote:
Does this go under the phrase (If you never did it, you don't even have a clue what you are talking about) go back to your cubicle and cry

so I should run a 6 hour marathon so I know what it's like?

Find out what it is in life that you don't do well, then don't
do that thing.
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [AthletesOnTrack] [ In reply to ]
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AthletesOnTrack wrote:
. . . Ironman is legit . . . .

I don't think I would call IM an "ultra" endurance event. I thought this was about those fools that go run like 100-200K.
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [AthletesOnTrack] [ In reply to ]
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Who cares?

Stay focused and responsible for your own performance and for your own actions. That's all you can do. I could care less about whether my coworkers think I'm a super ultra-superman. I try to keep my life as a triathlete out of the workplace anyway.

AND finishing an ironman is not normal or typical. Anyone who finishes a half or full ironman has my respect.

That said, 99.9% of triathlets are wonderful people. Embrace that fact over the 0.1%.

Max
Last edited by: Madmax62: Dec 10, 12 12:07
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [pattersonpaul] [ In reply to ]
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So what, so your fast, try running a 50 or 100 mile run, walk or crawl, and what is fast to you (Marathon) the first runner (of the marathon died) in my opinion it is the rant people that can ruin the sport (duathlon) for an example, as for Ironman, it wasn't meant to be a race, more like an endurance race with some Primos at the end
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [AthletesOnTrack] [ In reply to ]
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If you think some people don't deserve respect...well...don't give it to them.

If you feel that some people should give you respect...well...you have two options. Don't give a rat's ass, or prove it to them that you deserve it. I usually prefer to not give a rat's ass.
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [Goosedog] [ In reply to ]
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Goosedog wrote:
AthletesOnTrack wrote:
. . . Ironman is legit . . . .


I don't think I would call IM an "ultra" endurance event. I thought this was about those fools that go run like 100-200K.

------

Phfffft Ironman is just a warm up!!! (I refuse to use pink font)...Yeah I thought that this would be about the Ultra crowd but realised that it couldn't be, as we all know Ironman is the hardest single day event in the history of mankind (again I refuse to use pink)...;-)

People love to carry on about how much they train and "race" and all that good stuff and yes it is pretty funny to watch.I have some FB friends who carry on and on and on about all the "really hard IM training" they do and how they are out crushing it all the time but become remarkable humble once it is time to post results.Lot's of pictures of training and camps and gear and all that jazz but not much going on after the event.It is all good and if it makes them happy and keeps them healthy then who cares.I used to but now I don't.


---
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [tri808] [ In reply to ]
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If you think some people don't deserve respect...well...don't give it to them.

If you feel that some people should give you respect...well...you have two options. Don't give a rat's ass, or prove it to them that you deserve it. I usually prefer to not give a rat's ass. //

Just had to repost this, well said, end of thread....
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [Goosedog] [ In reply to ]
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Agreed. From the title I thought you were going to whine about people who "slowly" complete some type of ultra events like Ultraman or Western States. Then I was going to laugh at the notion that those events are "not difficult".

Now I'm not sure what you're whining about or why.

@davempratt
Last edited by: djastroman: Dec 10, 12 12:27
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [AthletesOnTrack] [ In reply to ]
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despite all the static you're getting here (it is slowtwitch, after all) i actually agree with you.

it's a pet peeve of mine lately that if a race has, say, a 5k and a 10k at the same event, the shorter race is increasingly viewed as the 'beginners' event. as if you wouldn't bother doing a 5k race as long as you're sure you could actually run 10k. all these people would rather shuffle a half than actually try to go fast in a shorter event. it's a bummer.

-mike

____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [AthletesOnTrack] [ In reply to ]
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AthletesOnTrack wrote:
I don't get ultra-endurance snobs, especially slow ones. People who think they're awesome because they did some really long race, but think that short events aren't real.

I can't be the only one who gets tired of this, right? Here's the gist of the rant:

Race whatever distance and whatever sport make you happy, but donít ask me to respect the fact that you can shuffle along for a long time, barely breaking a sweat, chatting with your friends and treating aid stations as a buffet table.


And you can read the rest of it here:http://www.athletesontrack.com/?p=583[/quote[/url]]


So, let's see. You wrote a snobbish post about those that go long and don't live up to your time expectations, then post here under the title that you are ranting against ultra endurance snobs?

Irony, table for one.

ETA - is this really a part of your professional description? "He's dedicated to helping new athletes have a positive experience and to helping everyone achieve their goals, whether that is to just to cross the finish line, or to finish first." Do you tell your slow, DFL clients that they do not get your respect?
Last edited by: ChrisM: Dec 10, 12 12:36
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [iron_mike] [ In reply to ]
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i agree, people "distance up" usually when they can't compete with the deeper fields of more traditional races. I wouldn't even know what a good time for a 100k run would be, but i know how hard it is to run sub 3 in a marathon.

John

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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [AthletesOnTrack] [ In reply to ]
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I feel you dude. Ask me to ambulate in single direction for 24 hours straight...no problem, just give me about 6 months to get ready. Ask me to run a 5k 2 minutes less than my current PR, might as well ask me to fly to the moon.
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [jlafren42] [ In reply to ]
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jlafren42 wrote:
i agree, people "distance up" usually when they can't compete with the deeper fields of more traditional races. I wouldn't even know what a good time for a 100k run would be, but i know how hard it is to run sub 3 in a marathon.

---

Last year the World 100k Championships were won in 6:23:20 with the top 11 going under 7hrs...To win my National Champs in June I will have to run under 7:30 and hope that nobody fast shows up.

----
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [Ultra-tri-guy] [ In reply to ]
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Ultra-tri-guy wrote:
jlafren42 wrote:
i agree, people "distance up" usually when they can't compete with the deeper fields of more traditional races. I wouldn't even know what a good time for a 100k run would be, but i know how hard it is to run sub 3 in a marathon.


---

Last year the World 100k Championships were won in 6:23:20 with the top 11 going under 7hrs...To win my National Champs in June I will have to run under 7:30 and hope that nobody fast shows up.

----

Wow. Good luck. That stuff is incredible.

-Stephen in Arkansas
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [jlafren42] [ In reply to ]
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The reason people go to ultras is because they can run fast in the smaller distances and wanted to do something more challenging and don't have to be type A and post it on a blog, I always have a qoute (You might be fast but will you last) in all my years most are on the couch after a couple of years, big deal
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [AthletesOnTrack] [ In reply to ]
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Given all the challenges and issues that we face as a species and a society this is the one that you choose to focus on?

Might want to shop at the perspective store next time you go to the mall....



Randy Christofferson(http://www.rcmioga.blogspot.com

Insert Doubt. Erase Hope. Crush Dreams.
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [razorbacksteve] [ In reply to ]
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razorbacksteve wrote:
Ultra-tri-guy wrote:
jlafren42 wrote:
i agree, people "distance up" usually when they can't compete with the deeper fields of more traditional races. I wouldn't even know what a good time for a 100k run would be, but i know how hard it is to run sub 3 in a marathon.


---

Last year the World 100k Championships were won in 6:23:20 with the top 11 going under 7hrs...To win my National Champs in June I will have to run under 7:30 and hope that nobody fast shows up.

----


Wow. Good luck. That stuff is incredible.


--

For the Americans here the current World 24hr Champion is 41 year old Yank, Mike Morton who won the race by covering 277.543kilometers(173.4 miles) which is a great performance but still around 26k short of Yiannis Kouros' world record..

---
Last edited by: Ultra-tri-guy: Dec 10, 12 12:58
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [rcmioga] [ In reply to ]
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in fairness, randy, i notice that yours is a 'triathlon and adventures' blog and not a 'world peace and the cure for cancer' blog.

let's all just lighten up a bit.

-mike

____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [iron_mike] [ In reply to ]
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It was easier being when we all agreed to bitch about xxxxx xxxxxxxxx
A lot like when the Soviet Union was around. We knew who to hate.
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [AthletesOnTrack] [ In reply to ]
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At first glance, your main point is certainly worthy of hearing, especially for newbies who are focused on distances. I am one of them. For me, just moving any distance was a challenge, due to my own self-imposed prison of obesity. Going from zero to 5k to 13 miles was the path I took. Along the way I have gained appreciation for how hard short course is, to a real racer. I had never seen someone cross the finish line at a 5 or 10k, since I was only ever in the way back. Then I helped put on an event and watched the winners. The effort was tremendous. I had a new appreciation for a fast 5k, as opposed to a steady non-BQ marathon. So to your alleged point, I get it, and I look like one of the people you think you are talking about.

Trouble is, you shoot your own argument down by two credibility problems:

1. and this is, of course, debatable - I am not sure how many people there are like this, who look down on short distance while being very slow at long distance. You seem to have put up a great strawman to burn in effigy.

2. You further this by your own desire to crap all over anyone who is slow, whether they have invited it by looking down on short course athletes or not. No, not ANYONE can walk a marathon in 6 hours. That is not true. My 3+ hour half marathons have hurt like hell. I don't intend to always be this fat and slow, and I am not changing overnight. But it appears to annoy the life out of you that we slowpokes exist, and dare to even show up. Who the hell do we think we are, allowing people to cheer us on at the finish with our terrible selves that aren't REAL athletes.

So while your main stated point that short course speed is as difficult, or more difficult usually, and worthy of respect, as long course at any speed, is a point that I think anyone who pays attention can agree with, (going for a comma/clause record here) your need to paint all slow distance athletes with the imagery you've chosen weakens your argument, and makes you look like a complete douchenozzle.

===================================
I'll tell you all right now, my seat is too low, I'm not aero and I carry too much fluid on the bike.
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [AthletesOnTrack] [ In reply to ]
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The people I know who do ultras aren't snobs and are actually far more humble than 90% of the people on ST, including you. I don't know what crowd you are hanging out with but it is the wrong one.

And if you are going to whine about it, man up and go long so you get the respect you think you deserve.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jen - @ultragrrl

"In order to keep a true perspective on one's importance, everyone should have a dog that worships him and a cat that will ignore him." - Dereke Bruce
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [Ultra-tri-guy] [ In reply to ]
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Ultra-tri-guy wrote:
jlafren42 wrote:
i agree, people "distance up" usually when they can't compete with the deeper fields of more traditional races. I wouldn't even know what a good time for a 100k run would be, but i know how hard it is to run sub 3 in a marathon.


---

Last year the World 100k Championships were won in 6:23:20 with the top 11 going under 7hrs...To win my National Champs in June I will have to run under 7:30 and hope that nobody fast shows up.

----

That's awesome. Best of luck.
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [rcmioga] [ In reply to ]
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A couple of other posters have perhaps put it better than me, iron_mike and pattersonpaul.

It feels like there is a growing lack of respect for shorter races, and that's a shame. When it's coupled with an unreasonable esteem for endurance or ultra-endurance events, it can get a bit silly.

That's probably a lot more clear and concise than I put it the first time. I respect anybody getting off the couch and out the door, just that puts you in the top what, 5% of the population, because you beat everyone still on the couch. The people I don't respect are the ones who don't respect athletes racing other distances. I can definitely see where that's not what came across, and that's just poor writing and editing on my part.

No distance is more legit than any other, no speed is more legit than any other. Better?
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [Ultra-tri-guy] [ In reply to ]
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Ultra-tri-guy wrote:
razorbacksteve wrote:
Ultra-tri-guy wrote:
jlafren42 wrote:
i agree, people "distance up" usually when they can't compete with the deeper fields of more traditional races. I wouldn't even know what a good time for a 100k run would be, but i know how hard it is to run sub 3 in a marathon.


---

Last year the World 100k Championships were won in 6:23:20 with the top 11 going under 7hrs...To win my National Champs in June I will have to run under 7:30 and hope that nobody fast shows up.

----


Wow. Good luck. That stuff is incredible.


--

For the Americans here the current World 24hr Champion is 41 year old Yank, Mike Morton who won the race by covering 277.543kilometers(173.4 miles) which is a great performance but still around 26k short of Yiannis Kouros' world record..

---

Don't know much about the history here, but I think that record is so far above anyone else that it looks like it may never be broken. Something like 7:40 min/mi for 24 hours...ridiculous.

-Stephen in Arkansas
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [AthletesOnTrack] [ In reply to ]
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So you had a few to agree and that is what you meant, your in the wrong business, back to your cubical, at one of those online coaching places
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [AthletesOnTrack] [ In reply to ]
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Snobs in every sport; triathlon no different.

I typically stick to myself and don't care what people think, just train the way you want, race your race. And tune out negativity
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [usmultisport] [ In reply to ]
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usmultisport wrote:
The reason people go to ultras is because they can run fast in the smaller distances and wanted to do something more challenging and don't have to be type A and post it on a blog, I always have a qoute (You might be fast but will you last) in all my years most are on the couch after a couple of years, big deal

I wish this were the case. I really like the ultra-runner crowd, but your perception is disconnected with reality. Most of the ultra-types aren't really that fast--it just seems they're just curious how their bodies do out at those distances. (and as Jen states, seem pretty cool/humble folk)

I believe the OP's rant is against the general public perception is distance traveled >> speed distance is traveled in (which requires a bit more training + athletic ability)

The question of who is right and who is wrong has seemed to me always too small to be worth a moment's thought, while the question of what is right and what is wrong has seemed all-important.

-Albert J. Nock
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [Derf] [ In reply to ]
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I believe the OP's rant is against the general public perception is distance traveled >> speed distance is traveled in (which requires a bit more training + athletic ability)

...and I suppose what we all need to remember is that we're doing this not for the general public, but hopefully for other reasons. Which may or may not be better than attempting to gain the accolades of the couch potatoes in our lives, but that's another topic...

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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [AthletesOnTrack] [ In reply to ]
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AthletesOnTrack wrote:

It feels like there is a growing lack of respect for shorter races, and that's a shame. When it's coupled with an unreasonable esteem for endurance or ultra-endurance events, it can get a bit silly.

I think this statement is complete BS. Who are the most famous runners? Usain Bolt. Steve Prefontaine. Michael Johnson. Millions of people know who these guys are. None of them are known for running over 5000m. How many people know Paula Jane Radcliffe is? How many non-triathletes know who Macca or Crowie are?

I think you need to worry more about yourself and your athletes and less about being jealous about being overlooked.

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
VeloVetta is developing AERO cycling shoes with CFD and wind tunnel testing.
Instagram ‚ÄĘ Facebook
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [Mike C] [ In reply to ]
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Agree entirely, I do these things primarily because I'm addicted to it, not for others.

Distance-ism is certainly a curiosity, I'll admit.

The question of who is right and who is wrong has seemed to me always too small to be worth a moment's thought, while the question of what is right and what is wrong has seemed all-important.

-Albert J. Nock
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [pattersonpaul] [ In reply to ]
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pattersonpaul wrote:
If over the weekend I finished a marathon in 6 hours and you ran a 5k in 17 minutes guess who
gets the most kudos from our co-workers? Me. After all you just ran for 17 minutes, anyone
can do that.

Sad, but so true!
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [AthletesOnTrack] [ In reply to ]
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AthletesOnTrack wrote:
I don't get ultra-endurance snobs, especially slow ones.

Also, are you the Steen Rose who finished the Buffalo Springs Lake 70.3 Triathlon 2012 in 5:28 with a 40 minute swim, 2:35 bike and a run of 2:07?

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
VeloVetta is developing AERO cycling shoes with CFD and wind tunnel testing.
Instagram ‚ÄĘ Facebook
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [Derf] [ In reply to ]
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I respect your opinion, but maybe your hanging with the wrong crowd, that being said, the older we get, the slower we will get,, it it a part of life, so then you say anyone can do a 5k and be in the bar by 10.00am (in my walker)
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [AthletesOnTrack] [ In reply to ]
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AthletesOnTrack wrote:
A couple of other posters have perhaps put it better than me, iron_mike and pattersonpaul.

It feels like there is a growing lack of respect for shorter races, and that's a shame. When it's coupled with an unreasonable esteem for endurance or ultra-endurance events, it can get a bit silly.

That's probably a lot more clear and concise than I put it the first time. I respect anybody getting off the couch and out the door, just that puts you in the top what, 5% of the population, because you beat everyone still on the couch. The people I don't respect are the ones who don't respect athletes racing other distances. I can definitely see where that's not what came across, and that's just poor writing and editing on my part.

No distance is more legit than any other, no speed is more legit than any other. Better?

Sure, that makes more sense. And now I am genuinely curious to hear some examples of how people express this lack of respect. Since you're in coaching, I assume this has some real world basis, so lay it on us. My guess is that whether it's short or long course, the vast majority of people, even the ones willing to throw their hat into the multisport ring, have no shot to ever podium. We're always going to be only racing ourselves. We can't appreciate the difference between 1st and 3rd place in a 5k, it's all beyond us, even MOPers. So while we certainly can push ourselves with the pursuit of lower PRs, there is a different kind of satisfaction from going the distance. It's why endurance sports are called endurance. I am starting to see more and more why I need to set goals of both kinds. I have personally decided to not even think about a full marathon until I can get my 10k and 1/2mary times down to a reasonable range. That's going to take a lot more work than it took me to go from zero to finishing the first ones.

Maybe I'm a bad example. Always been fat and unathletic, so I have mad respect for fast people at ANY distance. Maybe the population that is grating on you is closer to the actual MOP than the BOP. I don't know. I may be a poor representative of the BOP as it is. Seriously though, some "for instance" comments you've actually heard would be helpful.

===================================
I'll tell you all right now, my seat is too low, I'm not aero and I carry too much fluid on the bike.
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [RunFatboyRun] [ In reply to ]
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And now I am genuinely curious to hear some examples of how people express this lack of respect.

Another poster hit it squarely on the head---talk to a group of people that don't know better, and discuss two different athletes' performances at, say, 5k and marathon (or insert any two disparate distances there): one runs a sub-17 5k, wins AG, and the other finishes marathon in 6 hours...who will this group of "un-knowing" people give the "oohs and ahhs" to?

Those of us that "know"...know a 5k hurts like a mo-fo when run correctly, while a 6-hour marathon would be painful in its own right---just not a "laudable" achievement.

Not sure if that helps...

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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [Mike C] [ In reply to ]
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Mike C wrote:
And now I am genuinely curious to hear some examples of how people express this lack of respect.

Another poster hit it squarely on the head---talk to a group of people that don't know better, and discuss two different athletes' performances at, say, 5k and marathon (or insert any two disparate distances there): one runs a sub-17 5k, wins AG, and the other finishes marathon in 6 hours...who will this group of "un-knowing" people give the "oohs and ahhs" to?

Those of us that "know"...know a 5k hurts like a mo-fo when run correctly, while a 6-hour marathon would be painful in its own right---just not a "laudable" achievement.

Not sure if that helps...

OK, it does, to a degree. And these are not people who take part in the sport, so why are we caring about their opinion again? I wonder how many actual runners or triathletes have this attitude. That is what the OP was about. Hey, I get the other thing, I have mostly non-athletic friends, so distance means more than time to them. But we were talking about athletes who look down on other athletes.

===================================
I'll tell you all right now, my seat is too low, I'm not aero and I carry too much fluid on the bike.
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [RunFatboyRun] [ In reply to ]
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I wonder how many actual runners or triathletes have this attitude. That is what the OP was about. Hey, I get the other thing, I have mostly non-athletic friends, so distance means more than time to them. But we were talking about athletes who look down on other athletes.

Quoting from the linked blog:

"Race whatever distance and whatever sport make you happy, but donít expect respect for just finishing something long when you look down on other athletes just because their events are shorter than yours. Itís no more fair to say ďanybody can do an ironmanĒ than it is to say ďitís only a 5kĒ or ďanybody can run for 20 minutes.Ē

Okay, reading that again does have be a bit confused as well, as I don't know too many folks who are the "completers" having the cojones to "look down" at anyone with respect to distance.
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [RunFatboyRun] [ In reply to ]
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RunFatboyRun wrote:
Mike C wrote:
And now I am genuinely curious to hear some examples of how people express this lack of respect.

Another poster hit it squarely on the head---talk to a group of people that don't know better, and discuss two different athletes' performances at, say, 5k and marathon (or insert any two disparate distances there): one runs a sub-17 5k, wins AG, and the other finishes marathon in 6 hours...who will this group of "un-knowing" people give the "oohs and ahhs" to?

Those of us that "know"...know a 5k hurts like a mo-fo when run correctly, while a 6-hour marathon would be painful in its own right---just not a "laudable" achievement.

Not sure if that helps...


OK, it does, to a degree. And these are not people who take part in the sport, so why are we caring about their opinion again? I wonder how many actual runners or triathletes have this attitude. That is what the OP was about. Hey, I get the other thing, I have mostly non-athletic friends, so distance means more than time to them. But we were talking about athletes who look down on other athletes.

These the same folsk that say "ooooh, the one in hawaii?" when you say you did a sprint tri over the weekend.

Isn't this just a disguised "IM cutoff should be 12 hours" thread? I am with you, I could give a shit what people at work or Cousin Kevin at Thanksgiving think
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [Mike C] [ In reply to ]
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Mike C wrote:
I wonder how many actual runners or triathletes have this attitude. That is what the OP was about. Hey, I get the other thing, I have mostly non-athletic friends, so distance means more than time to them. But we were talking about athletes who look down on other athletes.

Quoting from the linked blog:

"Race whatever distance and whatever sport make you happy, but donít expect respect for just finishing something long when you look down on other athletes just because their events are shorter than yours. Itís no more fair to say ďanybody can do an ironmanĒ than it is to say ďitís only a 5kĒ or ďanybody can run for 20 minutes.Ē

Okay, reading that again does have be a bit confused as well, as I don't know too many folks who are the "completers" having the cojones to "look down" at anyone with respect to distance.

So, does the author say in the same blog post:
1. it's unfair to say anyone can complete an ironman
2. anyone can complete an ironman

My head hurts now. I am out the door to go teach some cub scouts how to twist balloons, or I would look at the blog closer. Can't wait to see how this thread develops while I'm out.

===================================
I'll tell you all right now, my seat is too low, I'm not aero and I carry too much fluid on the bike.
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [Derf] [ In reply to ]
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I'm doing two 100 milers this year and in my opinion, it is going to take much less work and training and coaching and neglecting my job and friends and family in order to finish those, than for me to ever get fast enough to even attempt an 18min 5K.

You fasties are crazy and I could never start to pretend to be one, and you have all of my respect!!!!
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [npda] [ In reply to ]
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I have crewed a couple 100's for friends, and while I love crewing and pacing, the more I've helped, the less I want to do one. :)

Y'all are nuts and have my greatest respect. :)

The question of who is right and who is wrong has seemed to me always too small to be worth a moment's thought, while the question of what is right and what is wrong has seemed all-important.

-Albert J. Nock
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [AthletesOnTrack] [ In reply to ]
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"I don't get ultra-endurance snobs, especially slow ones. People who think they're awesome because they did some really long race, but think that short events aren't real."

I have not met one of these. Have you ever met anyone who came to you and said:


respect the fact that you I can shuffle along for a long time, barely breaking a sweat, chatting with my friends and treating aid stations as a buffet table while I do an IM


It may have happened but probably did not happen too often, the only snob here is you. Add in the pearler from your website where you claim to communicate well with athletes at all levels, well unless you are a back of pack who dares to mention your achievement in the context of a lesser distance. Icing on the cake your Joe Friel elite qualification




Steen graduated with honors from Texas State University with a degree in Communication, and can connect with athletes at all levels and ages. His monthly articles in The Racing Post are popular with beginners and experts alike. Steen is an Elite Coach with Joe Frielís Training Bible Coaching.
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [AthletesOnTrack] [ In reply to ]
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I've had a dream of completing an IM since college and decided to start two years ago with my first sprint. Since then I've completed a second and bettered my time by more than 10%. Yes I'm slow (PB 2:01:00 for a sprint) but when I started I could barely swim 50 yards and was almost 100 pounds overweight.

I do try to stay out of the way of the faster athletes but believe me I'm breaking a sweat !

We should all be more understanding of our fellow triathletes. Not everyone can be Michael Jordan but if no one played basketball because they weren't as good as Jordan then basketball wouldn't be very exciting. We can't all be as fast as you but that doesn't take away from our effort and continually improving.

If you want to compare apples to apples, wear a backpack with enough weights to equal 200 pounds and see how your time is affected.

I'm continuing to loose weight and getting faster. In the mean time I'll stay out of your way because you too are achieving something great and I want you to do your best.
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [jlafren42] [ In reply to ]
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jlafren42 wrote:
i agree, people "distance up" usually when they can't compete with the deeper fields of more traditional races. I wouldn't even know what a good time for a 100k run would be, but i know how hard it is to run sub 3 in a marathon.

Going long doesn't have to be slow. This feat by Mike Morton just blows my mind. 172 miles in 24 hrs is INSANE

http://www.irunfar.com/...ships-interview.html

http://www.fuelforendurance.com
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [jmayo] [ In reply to ]
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jmayo wrote:
jlafren42 wrote:
i agree, people "distance up" usually when they can't compete with the deeper fields of more traditional races. I wouldn't even know what a good time for a 100k run would be, but i know how hard it is to run sub 3 in a marathon.


Going long doesn't have to be slow. This feat by Mike Morton just blows my mind. 172 miles in 24 hrs is INSANEhttp://www.irunfar.com/...ships-interview.html[/quote[/url]]

----

X2....Great job by Mike..
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [AthletesOnTrack] [ In reply to ]
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I dont get those triathlete snobs, especially slow ones. People who think they're awesome because they did some really long race, but think that short events aren't real.
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [Rhymenocerus] [ In reply to ]
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Everybody's a snob at something.

Find out what it is in life that you don't do well, then don't
do that thing.
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [iron_mike] [ In reply to ]
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Good investigation! However, I'm not the one whinning dude. I'm not taking anyone down in my blog. If anyone should lighten up it might be you...that's the point--get it?



Randy Christofferson(http://www.rcmioga.blogspot.com

Insert Doubt. Erase Hope. Crush Dreams.
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [AthletesOnTrack] [ In reply to ]
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I don't know where everyone meets all the IM snobs, ultra snobs, triathlon snobs ect. I have met many people in the years doing this sport and I find most are very nice, the ones that are not are just sort of insecure types. Never really met a "snob" the faster they are the nicer they seem to be.
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [dennis] [ In reply to ]
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dennis wrote:
I don't know where everyone meets all the IM snobs, ultra snobs, triathlon snobs ect. I have met many people in the years doing this sport and I find most are very nice, the ones that are not are just sort of insecure types. Never really met a "snob" the faster they are the nicer they seem to be.

-----


It's an online thing I believe...

---
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [dennis] [ In reply to ]
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dennis wrote:
I don't know where everyone meets all the IM snobs, ultra snobs, triathlon snobs ect. I have met many people in the years doing this sport and I find most are very nice, the ones that are not are just sort of insecure types. Never really met a "snob" the faster they are the nicer they seem to be.


You havnt been on ST for very long have you?
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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RowToTri wrote:
AthletesOnTrack wrote:
I don't get ultra-endurance snobs, especially slow ones.


Also, are you the Steen Rose who finished the Buffalo Springs Lake 70.3 Triathlon 2012 in 5:28 with a 40 minute swim, 2:35 bike and a run of 2:07?

Oh. Snap.

Eliot
blog thing - strava thing
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [AthletesOnTrack] [ In reply to ]
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AthletesOnTrack wrote:
That's probably a lot more clear and concise than I put it the first time...I can definitely see where that's not what came across, and that's just poor writing and editing on my part.

That elegant backpedal, paired with this from your website...

Quote:
degree in Communication, and can connect with athletes at all levels
...really makes me wonder if you were just poking the hornet's nest to see what would happen.

Eliot
blog thing - strava thing
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [renorider] [ In reply to ]
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I might come off as a snob....but .....

KISS MY FVCKING BELT BUCKLE BIIIIAAATCH!!!!
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [dennis] [ In reply to ]
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dennis wrote:
I don't know where everyone meets all the IM snobs, ultra snobs, triathlon snobs ect. I have met many people in the years doing this sport and I find most are very nice, the ones that are not are just sort of insecure types. Never really met a "snob" the faster they are the nicer they seem to be.

i feel like this actually happens to me pretty often. a bunch of people were signing up for a road race festival last summer, and i did the 1-mile. "oh, how come you're only doing the mile?" was a pretty common question. i wanted to break 5 minutes, which to me would be 5 full minutes of pain and suffering, and way, way harder than just finishing a 10mile. hell, most STers could finish a 10mile with their arms tied behind their backs. but increasingly running is being taken over by a mentality that progress means distancing up, not getting faster.

-mike

____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [RunFatboyRun] [ In reply to ]
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RunFatboyRun wrote:
AthletesOnTrack wrote:
A couple of other posters have perhaps put it better than me, iron_mike and pattersonpaul.

It feels like there is a growing lack of respect for shorter races, and that's a shame. When it's coupled with an unreasonable esteem for endurance or ultra-endurance events, it can get a bit silly.

That's probably a lot more clear and concise than I put it the first time. I respect anybody getting off the couch and out the door, just that puts you in the top what, 5% of the population, because you beat everyone still on the couch. The people I don't respect are the ones who don't respect athletes racing other distances. I can definitely see where that's not what came across, and that's just poor writing and editing on my part.

No distance is more legit than any other, no speed is more legit than any other. Better?


Sure, that makes more sense. And now I am genuinely curious to hear some examples of how people express this lack of respect. Since you're in coaching, I assume this has some real world basis, so lay it on us. My guess is that whether it's short or long course, the vast majority of people, even the ones willing to throw their hat into the multisport ring, have no shot to ever podium. We're always going to be only racing ourselves. We can't appreciate the difference between 1st and 3rd place in a 5k, it's all beyond us, even MOPers. So while we certainly can push ourselves with the pursuit of lower PRs, there is a different kind of satisfaction from going the distance. It's why endurance sports are called endurance. I am starting to see more and more why I need to set goals of both kinds. I have personally decided to not even think about a full marathon until I can get my 10k and 1/2mary times down to a reasonable range. That's going to take a lot more work than it took me to go from zero to finishing the first ones.

Maybe I'm a bad example. Always been fat and unathletic, so I have mad respect for fast people at ANY distance. Maybe the population that is grating on you is closer to the actual MOP than the BOP. I don't know. I may be a poor representative of the BOP as it is. Seriously though, some "for instance" comments you've actually heard would be helpful.

You have degraded yourself several times in your posts. You need to stop. Not to get all Dr Phil, but you ARE an athlete. Your already thinking of ways to get your 10k and 21k times down. Thats 'athlete speak'. Think like one, be one. Otherwise you will be 150 pounds dripping wet and still think of yourself as 'fat and unathletic'.
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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RowToTri wrote:
AthletesOnTrack wrote:
I don't get ultra-endurance snobs, especially slow ones.


Also, are you the Steen Rose who finished the Buffalo Springs Lake 70.3 Triathlon 2012 in 5:28 with a 40 minute swim, 2:35 bike and a run of 2:07?

Shouldnt play the man Ed. Even if it were him, he could be one hell of a coach. He may not have worded himself well in the beginning, but he did try and clarify his point. Posting any results, with the insinuation that they are mediocre times, just contributes to the snobby argument.
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [coates_hbk] [ In reply to ]
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Like and agree. I've seen too many people convince themselves they weren't athletic so they couldn't be active.

As for the rest of this thread, blah. Yes, there's a difference between trying to podium and trying to complete. Each is likely a challenge and accomplishment for the person with the goal. "Hard" is relative - do what is hard for you if you want a challenge.
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [AthletesOnTrack] [ In reply to ]
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Anyone who finds the courage to get off of the couch and try to better herself or himself is awesome.
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [coates_hbk] [ In reply to ]
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coates_hbk wrote:

Shouldnt play the man Ed. Even if it were him, he could be one hell of a coach. He may not have worded himself well in the beginning, but he did try and clarify his point. Posting any results, with the insinuation that they are mediocre times, just contributes to the snobby argument.

I get what you are saying, but if he is going to come on here and rant about how annoyed he is by slow athletes, he better be prepared to back it up with stellar results otherwise, he's not just an asshole, he's an asshole AND a hypocrite. Finishing in the 42% bracket of his age group solidly places him in the latter category.

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
VeloVetta is developing AERO cycling shoes with CFD and wind tunnel testing.
Instagram ‚ÄĘ Facebook
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [AthletesOnTrack] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
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Duffy wrote:

Perfect blend of cuteness, sarcasm and BAMFism
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [Ultra-tri-guy] [ In reply to ]
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Phfffft Ironman is just a warm up!!

Nick,

I have mentioned this before in this space, so forgive me for repeating it.

FWIW - Outside Magazine took Ironman off its endurance races/events of significance back in the mid 90's! Reason: There were too many people finishing it each year. This was back when there was only the 5 -Ironman races world wide, so perhaps about 7,000 - 8,000 finishing an Iroman race each year!



Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Fleck wrote:
Phfffft Ironman is just a warm up!!

Nick,

I have mentioned this before in this space, so forgive me for repeating it.

FWIW - Outside Magazine took Ironman off its endurance races/events of significance back in the mid 90's! Reason: There were too many people finishing it each year. This was back when there was only the 5 -Ironman races world wide, so perhaps about 7,000 - 8,000 finishing an Iroman race each year!

---

Yeah,I know and I of course was being my usual smartass self...I remember in '99, UMH/UMC Champ Tracy Preston and I were visiting Ultra legend Erik Seedhouse in his lab at SFU in Vancouver and there was a poll in some magazine about what was the most extreme event (this was during the x-games craze)..I asked him what he thought was an extreme event and he just said.."Any event where,when standing at the start line, it was reasonable to expect you might not survive to the finish"

---
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [RunFatboyRun] [ In reply to ]
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RunFatboyRun wrote:
And now I am genuinely curious to hear some examples of how people express this lack of respect.

I haven't read through the whole thread, but this looked like a good one to respond to, since this is a pet peeve of mine as well. Nothing like having a 190lb out-of-shape woman at a sprint/ olympic combined tri say that sprints are easy to get under the skin of someone trying to get legitimately fast at sprints. That's just one example; there are countless less memorable examples of people wondering why anyone who trains as much as me, or is in good shape like me (coming from people who are vaguely aware of the tri scene, not bragging here, I'm the first to say I'm not fast, especially by the standards of this site), would bother doing the shorter events. There are a few people who say "good for you for building speed and not chasing distance immediately", but they're few and far between. Yes, the dismissal in favor of people plodding through longer distances is frustrating.

I'm sure I'll get attacked for that. Whatever, it's how I feel.

Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines. -Enzo Ferrari
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [Bah Humbug] [ In reply to ]
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Couple of random notes....


1. I judge the difficulty of an event by looking at random sampling of the body-types of event finishers.
2. I finally gave up triathlon, because I wanted to give endurance events a try.

Both, serious.


I have a friend who posts her Crossfit workout photos. I see a lot of "mushy" folks, standing around in the photos.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"That night I had a dream. I dreamt I was as light as the ether."
Last edited by: Tiki: Dec 11, 12 15:33
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [iron_mike] [ In reply to ]
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iron_mike wrote:
i feel like this actually happens to me pretty often. a bunch of people were signing up for a road race festival last summer, and i did the 1-mile. "oh, how come you're only doing the mile?" was a pretty common question. i wanted to break 5 minutes, which to me would be 5 full minutes of pain and suffering, and way, way harder than just finishing a 10mile. hell, most STers could finish a 10mile with their arms tied behind their backs. but increasingly running is being taken over by a mentality that progress means distancing up, not getting faster.

-mike

I get this sort of thing in person a lot, too. I prefer 5k over 10k and sprint over olympic. If only 10k or olympic is offered, yes, I do those and do reasonably well. But at the combined offerings, yup, lots of people questioning why someone like me is, to use one set of words I got "beating up the kiddies in the kiddie pool". And to be fair, it's not like I even overall podiumed in that sprint.

Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines. -Enzo Ferrari
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [iron_mike] [ In reply to ]
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iron_mike wrote:
dennis wrote:
I don't know where everyone meets all the IM snobs, ultra snobs, triathlon snobs ect. I have met many people in the years doing this sport and I find most are very nice, the ones that are not are just sort of insecure types. Never really met a "snob" the faster they are the nicer they seem to be.


i feel like this actually happens to me pretty often. a bunch of people were signing up for a road race festival last summer, and i did the 1-mile. "oh, how come you're only doing the mile?" was a pretty common question. i wanted to break 5 minutes, which to me would be 5 full minutes of pain and suffering, and way, way harder than just finishing a 10mile. hell, most STers could finish a 10mile with their arms tied behind their backs. but increasingly running is being taken over by a mentality that progress means distancing up, not getting faster.

-mike

I did a 1 mile race last summer (twice in one day!) and it was brutal. Well the race I did that wasn't the "run with your 7 year old division" was brutal.

They have 1 mile races in Sweden? :-)

I thought you guys measured in Kilometers. 1 k? Now that's short!

Do you guys run on the left side over there? :-)

See the smiley faces?
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [Bah Humbug] [ In reply to ]
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There are a few people who say "good for you for building speed and not chasing distance immediately", but they're few and far between. Yes, the dismissal in favor of people plodding through longer distances is frustrating.

I'm one of those people. I've probably become nauseating on this subject.

However, I have changed my tune. If you just want to plod along and you are fine with that, then go nuts and do whatever you want to do. Seriously. The more the merrier. Run that marathon, two weeks out from the "A" race Ironman, or whatever . . it's all good.

However, if you are serious about going faster in longer events and you have your eye on some higher placings, getting on the podium, going to Kona etc . . then you'll adhere to the get-as-fast-as-you-can-at-the-shorter-stuff-before-going-longer plan!



Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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What are some events under which someone would be able to brag about finishing, regardless of finishing time?

Badwater, Western States,...

____________________________________________________
Ever Grateful, Ever True.
Boiler Up.
Hammer Down.
Hail Purdue
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [AthletesOnTrack] [ In reply to ]
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Snobs exist everywhere in life. They basically set themselves up in some way to feel superior to other people. This in itself is evidence that they aren't better than the people they compare themselves with.

I have no time for any kind of snob, endurance snob or otherwise. To me they are all "big frog in little pond" at best. If anything, I feel pity for them, if I bother to take the time to care one way or another.

Me? I do what I do, don't worry what other people think of me, and I enjoy life as much as realistically possible. I'm doing Rotorua 1/2 IM on the weekend. I will do an average time by my standards, thanks to not enough training, but as I love the venue, the race and testing myself from time to time, I will have a blast and a really good day. I couldn't give a rats ass what other people think of my pathetic time and I don't think I'm better than anyone else simply because I do 1/2 IM and longer races.

Haters gunna hate, and that's all that snobs are, haters.

Next question?

TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [AthletesOnTrack] [ In reply to ]
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AthletesOnTrack wrote:
Race whatever distance and whatever sport make you happy, but donít ask me to respect the fact that you can shuffle along for a long time, barely breaking a sweat, chatting with your friends and treating aid stations as a buffet table.

I respect participants that shuffle along at their own pace, barely breaking a sweat but I lose all respect for them if they violate the rules by justifying that they are so slow that the rules don't apply to them (the outside assistance rule is one is my pet peeves).
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [AthletesOnTrack] [ In reply to ]
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My gosh, you are a sensitive lot.

As it's been written many many times on ST....and really something to remember about life in general:

No one gives a crap about you.

No, truly.

People don't care about you.

There's an old story in the theater (never thought I'd get to tell this one on ST): Everyone on stage... all the extras, bit players, even leading roles... when they're all on stage in a big group... every one of the actors believes the whole audience is watching them. And guess what? Except for fleeting moments, hardly anyone watches them...except for maybe their family members in the audience. For the most part, people only watch the stars.

Guess what? That's just like life. So just get on with what you're doing, act like no one is watching... because no one is.

It's actually a liberating thought, if you think about it.
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [Goosedog] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [iron_mike] [ In reply to ]
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Could it be that they look up to you and want to pick your brain about training and how to pick races ? I have people ask me why I prefer sprints.
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [AthletesOnTrack] [ In reply to ]
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Probably not a good thing for an Endurance Coach to post.

I dont know where you're located, but if I was in the market for a coach, it wouldn't be you.
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [Bah Humbug] [ In reply to ]
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Bah Humbug wrote:
RunFatboyRun wrote:
And now I am genuinely curious to hear some examples of how people express this lack of respect.

I haven't read through the whole thread, but this looked like a good one to respond to, since this is a pet peeve of mine as well. Nothing like having a 190lb out-of-shape woman at a sprint/ olympic combined tri say that sprints are easy to get under the skin of someone trying to get legitimately fast at sprints. That's just one example; there are countless less memorable examples of people wondering why anyone who trains as much as me, or is in good shape like me (coming from people who are vaguely aware of the tri scene, not bragging here, I'm the first to say I'm not fast, especially by the standards of this site), would bother doing the shorter events. There are a few people who say "good for you for building speed and not chasing distance immediately", but they're few and far between. Yes, the dismissal in favor of people plodding through longer distances is frustrating.

I'm sure I'll get attacked for that. Whatever, it's how I feel.
I won't attack you at all. I asked for an example, you gave one. I'm intrigued. My own limited experience is all at the bop, where I meet others like me, and I have yet to hear this attitude in person. We freely admit to one another that it is an easier path to just go longer for the finish than to get faster at this distance. But seeing it firsthand directed at someone who looks to be much fitter, I can imagine it, and I think I have finally figured it out. I often compare subcultures to each other on the level where we're all tribal, regardless of common interest. What you're describing is parallel to my experience in following a few different bands that are known for their live shows. There will always be a couple idiots who show up to hear the one or two songs they heard on the radio and talk loudly through the rest of the show, not seeing the point in it. Those people do indeed suck. But most of my fellow travelers I get to meet at shows have an appreciation for the whole experience, whether their 1st show or 50th.

Cliffs notes: endurance sports are like a grateful dead or phish show. It draws in all kinds, most people enjoy the commn experience, and then go online to bicker and fight about every last detail of who is a real fan, what venues are better, and on and on. But in the end, we just want to get to the next date on the calendar.

===================================
I'll tell you all right now, my seat is too low, I'm not aero and I carry too much fluid on the bike.
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [RunFatboyRun] [ In reply to ]
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For the record, I didn't mean that YOU would attack me. I do figure someone will. But, thanks for being reasonable. For the record, I don't disrespect the people who do chase distance, I just want short speed to be respected too. At least, not actively mocked.

Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines. -Enzo Ferrari
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [Bah Humbug] [ In reply to ]
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It is respected, but since there isn't a distance challenge you HAVE to be fast to earn that respect.
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [AthletesOnTrack] [ In reply to ]
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Are you worried you're not getting credit for what you do? Are you afraid that a 5+ hour marathoner somehow diminishes your finish?
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [Elsa] [ In reply to ]
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think Steen has done like the Harp Lager ad says made a sharp exit. Not sure what the point of the post was. If it was a troll then it was good, but he's a coach and put his link in so probably not. His post goes against his philosophy on his website and it seems unlikely that he is a poor communicator given that he spent 4 years studying it.

Oh well maybe Steen just had a need to vent and had a bad day. Everyone knows you go longer when you can't go faster. In triathlon most people work that out very early.

For the average guy or girl doing an IM then doing one well is quite satisfying and gives a better sense of achievement than coming outside the top 10 in your AG when you do a 2:10 at an OD.
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [pattersonpaul] [ In reply to ]
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pattersonpaul wrote:
I believe a lot of people like to hide behind the mystique of a marathon or an Ironman
and really don't care how badly they perform. Maybe they like being slow.

.

This is an interesting point, my mate and I just did IM Bussleton and went to the last couple of hours at the finish line. We were both struck by how many young asians came running into the chute at a good pace obviously still relatively fresh. The only thing we could think of to account for it is that they were out there enjoying their day as long as they wanted and didn't really care about the finish time per se, just the finish and I have to say they seemed to be having much more fun than the sharp end of the field so maybe they do indeed like being slow
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [AthletesOnTrack] [ In reply to ]
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AthletesOnTrack wrote:
. The people I don't respect are the ones who don't respect athletes racing other distances. I can definitely see where that's not what came across, and that's just poor writing and editing on my part.

Are you getting confused though between respect and just ribbing someone for fun? In my build up to an IM race I take part in all out local races from 8km runs and a 1km swim series we have. My friends like to have a bit of fun with me calling them the 8 meter and 1 meter races respectively but they do respect I can run these faster than them and it's all just good humour. I've never actually come across anyone ever who I would class as as ultra snob, quite the opposite as everyone I know appreciates the journey you are on as everyone has been there themselves at some point
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [Ultra-tri-guy] [ In reply to ]
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Ultra-tri-guy wrote:
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Yeah,I know and I of course was being my usual smartass self...I remember in '99, UMH/UMC Champ Tracy Preston and I were visiting Ultra legend Erik Seedhouse in his lab at SFU in Vancouver and there was a poll in some magazine about what was the most extreme event (this was during the x-games craze)..I asked him what he thought was an extreme event and he just said.."Any event where,when standing at the start line, it was reasonable to expect you might not survive to the finish"

---

ugh, now there's a pet peeve. 'extreme' sports are not sports where people have mohawks and tattoos and jump from tall heights. when you watch a nordic ski marathon where people have barf frozen to their chests and they're collapsing at the finish line . . . that's extreme.

-mike

____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [iron_mike] [ In reply to ]
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iron_mike wrote:
Ultra-tri-guy wrote:

---

Yeah,I know and I of course was being my usual smartass self...I remember in '99, UMH/UMC Champ Tracy Preston and I were visiting Ultra legend Erik Seedhouse in his lab at SFU in Vancouver and there was a poll in some magazine about what was the most extreme event (this was during the x-games craze)..I asked him what he thought was an extreme event and he just said.."Any event where,when standing at the start line, it was reasonable to expect you might not survive to the finish"

---


ugh, now there's a pet peeve. 'extreme' sports are not sports where people have mohawks and tattoos and jump from tall heights. when you watch a nordic ski marathon where people have barf frozen to their chests and they're collapsing at the finish line . . . that's extreme.

-mike

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I hear ya...We talk about M-Dot gear and all that fun stuff being silly but I tell you the two t-shirts that really wind me up are the ones that say.."Second place is the first loser" and "If you aren't living on the edge you are taking up too much space" ..I hate those shirts!!

---
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [HXB] [ In reply to ]
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I'm fast enough to get AG podiums regularly, and sit in the OA at about 10. However, the woman I mentioned wasn't talking to me directly; it was one of her friends. I can do a proper sprint in under 1:10, she would probably take closer to two hours. But they're "too easy".

Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines. -Enzo Ferrari
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [AthletesOnTrack] [ In reply to ]
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AthletesOnTrack wrote:
I don't get ultra-endurance snobs, especially slow ones. People who think they're awesome because they did some really long race, but think that short events aren't real.

I can't be the only one who gets tired of this, right? Here's the gist of the rant:

Race whatever distance and whatever sport make you happy, but donít ask me to respect the fact that you can shuffle along for a long time, barely breaking a sweat, chatting with your friends and treating aid stations as a buffet table.


And you can read the rest of it here: http://www.athletesontrack.com/?p=583


Good topic AthletesOnTrack....

I like to still think that an Iron distance race is a huge accomplishment but since
thousands and thousands of people have done them it's watered down much like
a marathon finish used to be or even doing Boston.

Iron distance events are actually "ultra" as well just not as ultra as some of the other
stuff out there. Ultraman events don't stretch to more than a 12-hour deadline each
day so if you just take one day of an UM an Iron event can stretch to much longer ;)
Ultraman is the most fun and certainly falls into being more unique and warrants the most
bragging rights IMO.

What is super long or ultra is relative to the crowd you're in as well. A half iron race
is pretty hard no matter what depending on what you put into it that day. Same for
a straight marathon. FYI a 26.2 mile run for a P.R. used take more time for me to
recover from that anything. My achilles tendon starts aching just at the thought of
some of those training miles back in college.

When it comes to Ultra snobs though I've been in that world for a long time and when
people say something like "XXX event is just a warm up" it's not meant to be taken
seriously or not by anyone I know and I really know a lot of em.

The longer and more ultra the events are the more friendly the people tend to get. It's
just the nature of that tribe. BTW a general guideline to what is ultra is something
lasting into the dark hours of night and likely to continue into the next day.

Events such as solo RAAM, DecaTri's, Vendee Globe, any of the 3-6-day run's....
it's an endless list... all have back of the packers but to finish these non.stop format's
as an official finisher puts these people into a different club all together. I've not
heard once any of these people say "XXX is just a warm up" without it being totally
tongue in cheek.

As far as I can see Army Ranger School, BUDS course in Navy Seals & British SAS
training make our little piddly ultra thingies look like kindergarten. To be an official finisher
how about a 6 month deadline and all hell along the way. If one of those guys said "that's
just a warm up" with a cocky attitude I'd go along with that ;)

A fantastic book to motivate for how to never quit:
Lone Survivor: The Eyewitness Account of Operation Redwing and the Lost Heroes of
SEAL Team 10 written by Marcus Luttrell

Happy Holidays to you and your family.

Rick
Austin
Last edited by: enduro: Dec 22, 12 8:42
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [iron_mike] [ In reply to ]
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iron_mike wrote:
Ultra-tri-guy wrote:

---

Yeah,I know and I of course was being my usual smartass self...I remember in '99, UMH/UMC Champ Tracy Preston and I were visiting Ultra legend Erik Seedhouse in his lab at SFU in Vancouver and there was a poll in some magazine about what was the most extreme event (this was during the x-games craze)..I asked him what he thought was an extreme event and he just said.."Any event where,when standing at the start line, it was reasonable to expect you might not survive to the finish"

---


ugh, now there's a pet peeve. 'extreme' sports are not sports where people have mohawks and tattoos and jump from tall heights. when you watch a nordic ski marathon where people have barf frozen to their chests and they're collapsing at the finish line . . . that's extreme.

-mike


I don't know about that. My friend's children participate in Nordic combined. It 's a lot more extreme standing at the top of the ski jump with them looking down, then standing at the finish of the xc portion.

Unfortunately, too many of the X extreme sports are about danger and end in bodily harm. I think back to the Jake Brown crash on the mega ramp at X-Games.
Serious crap.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Q3PNj3tRW4
or Tanner Hall at Chad's Gap for a shoot (two broken ankles)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eitvXCqe4E

or Simon Dumont's landing long (two broken heels?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUmD4_k22Eg


You can even take someone like Kilian Jornet descending in an ultra. Most of us will fall flat on our faces and get seriously injured.
At the elite level in any sport, it is hard and very few belong there.
(but yeah, I hate poseurs too.)






Last edited by: vertical_doug: Dec 20, 12 18:57
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Re: Rant About Ultra Endurance Snobs [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
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Duffy wrote:
iron_mike wrote:
dennis wrote:
I don't know where everyone meets all the IM snobs, ultra snobs, triathlon snobs ect. I have met many people in the years doing this sport and I find most are very nice, the ones that are not are just sort of insecure types. Never really met a "snob" the faster they are the nicer they seem to be.


i feel like this actually happens to me pretty often. a bunch of people were signing up for a road race festival last summer, and i did the 1-mile. "oh, how come you're only doing the mile?" was a pretty common question. i wanted to break 5 minutes, which to me would be 5 full minutes of pain and suffering, and way, way harder than just finishing a 10mile. hell, most STers could finish a 10mile with their arms tied behind their backs. but increasingly running is being taken over by a mentality that progress means distancing up, not getting faster.

-mike


I did a 1 mile race last summer (twice in one day!) and it was brutal. Well the race I did that wasn't the "run with your 7 year old division" was brutal.

They have 1 mile races in Sweden? :-)

I thought you guys measured in Kilometers. 1 k? Now that's short!

Do you guys run on the left side over there? :-)

See the smiley faces?

As a fresh young 50yo I plan to try for a fast mile this year, and also still opt for the 5k in the local 5k/15k race each year. One thing that your ego has to countenance if you go short, is that kids can beat you. Had a good two miles of going back and forth with a 13yo at this years 5k...kicked his ass over the last tenth though! lol
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