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USADA Suspends Marathoner
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http://lavamagazine.com/...ing-middle-aged-mom/

Kind of an odd case.

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Re: USADA Suspends Marathoner [Jim Martin] [ In reply to ]
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i wonder why she was being tested at all
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Re: USADA Suspends Marathoner [Drdan] [ In reply to ]
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Drdan wrote:
i wonder why she was being tested at all


Well she is kind of a baller. Top 10 overall female at 2014 Pikes Peak. And regularly top 5 female at all the ultras she does. Despite playing the "just a middle-aged menopausal mom" card pretty hard.

Also playing the "it's all so confusing, I'm not elite " card.

There's nothing confusing about this statement on the Pikes Peak registration page:

"As a participant in the Pikes Peak Ascent and/or Marathon you are subject to drug testing pursuant to USADA standards and procedures, and you acknowledge this notification and your willingness to be so tested."
Last edited by: trail: Dec 29, 14 11:43
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Re: USADA Suspends Marathoner [Drdan] [ In reply to ]
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I guess random might truly mean random.

I would imagine that the resources could be better allocated than purely random though.

I fully support testing age groupers, especially those trying to either win the AG or qualify for something (Boston, Kona, etc).

I am curious how this person was selected. I would hope that at the same race on the same day they tested all the award recipients too.

I am also curious if the TUE rules could be written to better handle this situation; maybe they can't, but do we really want be banning a non-competitive recreational athlete for prescribed menopause meds.

Nevermind the italicized above, wrote that before I knew that she was placing so highly in all of her events.

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Last edited by: Jim Martin: Dec 29, 14 12:01
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Re: USADA Suspends Marathoner [Drdan] [ In reply to ]
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Drdan wrote:
i wonder why she was being tested at all

Well, looking at her Athlinks results, she almost always wins her age group in the trail marathons and ultras that she's done. So, she's not exactly a MOP athlete.

As we look at a model for AG testing in triathlon, isn't this really what we're working towards? What's most often suggested is that the top athletes in each AG get tested. The scenario that she presents for how and why she tested positive seems almost exactly akin to what gets so much attention with regard to male AG athletes using testosterone replacement therapy. How would we react if she was a 50-year-old male athlete that was popped and then said, "Well, I went to my doctor and tests showed that I had low DHEA and practically non-existent testosterone. Despite taking the dose recommended, my levels remain low; there is no competitive advantage from my perspective"?

Whether or not this is the type of result that we want from and AG testing system is up for debate.
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Re: USADA Suspends Marathoner [Jim Martin] [ In reply to ]
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Jim Martin wrote:
I guess random might truly mean random.

I would imagine that the resources could be better allocated than purely random though.

I fully support testing age groupers, especially those trying to either win the AG or qualify for something (Boston, Kona, etc).

She won her age group at the Pikes Peak Marathon, and she was the 7th overall female.
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Re: USADA Suspends Marathoner [Jim Martin] [ In reply to ]
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These are the real cheaters we should be worrying about. Totally planned and then try to say but they did not know, why me, etc. Amazing.

.

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Re: USADA Suspends Marathoner [craigj532] [ In reply to ]
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craigj532 wrote:
She won her age group at the Pikes Peak Marathon, and she was the 7th overall female.

That does change things some in my mind, the article seemed to imply that she was a person just out there for fun, which is not exactly the case.

It is hard to say much from looking at her times/paces (since these are hilly/mountainous trail runs), but if she were approaching a BQ time (for instance), I would feel even more strongly about it.

Either way, I just hope that the first or only person they tested wasn't the 51 year old age grouper who was 7th in gender.

I am all for testing age groupers, hell, I wish that every person in the race could be tested.

Short of that happening, I hope they direct the resources strategically to stop as much cheating as possible and specifically keep the awards and qualifying spots in the hands of the clean athletes.

To me it is more important to get first place and second place correct than it is to get 50th place and 51st place correct.

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Re: USADA Suspends Marathoner [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:
These are the real cheaters we should be worrying about. Totally planned and then try to say but they did not know, why me, etc. Amazing.

.

I'm also worried about drafters too. 30% aerodynamic savings, twice as much benefit as EPO.

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Re: USADA Suspends Marathoner [ericM40-44] [ In reply to ]
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ericM40-44 wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
These are the real cheaters we should be worrying about. Totally planned and then try to say but they did not know, why me, etc. Amazing.

.


I'm also worried about drafters too. 30% aerodynamic savings, twice as much benefit as EPO.

Yeah but Dave has a mirror for that;)







Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.
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Re: USADA Suspends Marathoner [sciguy] [ In reply to ]
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and apparently he wants a medal for being old and not taking T

sciguy wrote:
ericM40-44 wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
These are the real cheaters we should be worrying about. Totally planned and then try to say but they did not know, why me, etc. Amazing.

.


I'm also worried about drafters too. 30% aerodynamic savings, twice as much benefit as EPO.


Yeah but Dave has a mirror for that;)









Eric Reid
AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio Coaching and Bike Fitting
Chapel Hill, NC
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Re: USADA Suspends Marathoner [ericM40-44] [ In reply to ]
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There isn't any real normal legit use for the stuff medically.
There isn't any real evidence of performance benefit either.

So, who knows, maybe she knew, maybe she didn't. 1 year seems fair, given that it probably doesn't help her any.



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
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Re: USADA Suspends Marathoner [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:
These are the real cheaters we should be worrying about. Totally planned and then try to say but they did not know, why me, etc. Amazing.
.


She was using DHEA, which can be bought over the counter, has never been shown to have a PED effect, and has no reason to be on the banned list. A very large percentage of amateurs would test positive for OTC medications because none of them check the active ingredients. How many people here check every medication, OTC or not, with the global drug reference? How many amateurs are going to bow out of an event they signed up for because they took a cold med a few days before the event? Holding amateurs to the zero tolerance standards of professionals is just stupid.

The ADA should concentrate on products that actually works. Catching amateur athletes who participate for fun and are using OTC products does nothing to fight doping. It is just window dressing so the ADA can pretend they are making a difference.
Last edited by: Arch Stanton: Dec 29, 14 12:39
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Re: USADA Suspends Marathoner [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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jackmott wrote:
There isn't any real normal legit use for the stuff medically.
There isn't any real evidence of performance benefit either.

So, who knows, maybe she knew, maybe she didn't. 1 year seems fair, given that it probably doesn't help her any.

Isn't that what Tyler Hamilton got popped for when he tried to make a come back? I think I heard that
it's used sometimes to mask other "real" PEDs and that's why it's banned.

Find out what it is in life that you don't do well, then don't
do that thing.
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Re: USADA Suspends Marathoner [sciguy] [ In reply to ]
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ericM40-44 wrote:

I'm also worried about drafters too. 30% aerodynamic savings, twice as much benefit as EPO.


/pink/ these are not mutually exclusive, you can draft AND use EPO, no one said you have to only choose one /pink/

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Re: USADA Suspends Marathoner [Arch Stanton] [ In reply to ]
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I absolutely check everything on the list, very easy to do, here it is:
http://www.wfdf.org/...ohibited-list-en.pdf


Pseudoephedrine which is in non drowsy cold medications is allowable up to a point:

Quote:
Pseudoephedrine: Prohibited when its concentration in urine is greater
than 150 micrograms per milliliter

Nobody is going to be positive for taking cold medication a few days before an event.

You don't have to use non drowsy cold medications, and thus avoid any risk.

Further, since there are no cures for the cold, you can just not take anything, and save some money

Further, amateurs aren't held to a zero tolerance standard. Cases like this almost always get shorter bans.

All of that said, I do think it would be reasonable to have a smaller list of banned substances, if not for everyone, then at least for non professionals. Especially all the recreational drugs with no performance benefit.



Arch Stanton wrote:
How many people here check every medication, OTC or not, with the global drug reference? How many amateurs are going to bow out of an event they signed up for because they took a cold med a few days before the event? Holding amateurs to the zero tolerance standards of professionals is just stupid.

The ADA should concentrate on products that actually works. Catching amateur athletes who participate for fun and are using OTC products does nothing to fight doping. It is just window dressing so the ADA can pretend they are making a difference.



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: USADA Suspends Marathoner [Drdan] [ In reply to ]
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I doubt it was random. It's possible her competitors harbored suspicions and some may have contacted USADA. They don't have the resources for truly random testing, and are more likely to target age groupers when others complain or they have some reason to believe that someone is cheating. That's probably why we keep seeing age groupers popped here and there in cycling, running, and triathlon. It would be really interesting to know the percentage of failed age grouper drug tests each year as a percentage of total age groupers tested. I bet the number actually tested is pretty low and the percentage popped pretty high...an indicator that the tests are not random.
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Re: USADA Suspends Marathoner [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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jackmott wrote:
I absolutely check everything on the list, very easy to do, here it is:
http://www.wfdf.org/...ohibited-list-en.pdf

Ditto, I had a bad cold Kona week (stuck in that plane for so long) and I was on the web all day trying to tell my doc (who was doing his best) what I could have and what I couldn't have and when I could have it.

The biggest challenge for me was trying to figure out the definition of "in competition" for an amateur Ironman competitor. If I recall correctly it was something like 12 hours before the cannon.

For those that have not looked, there is a big difference between what you can have in your system our of competition versus in competition.

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Re: USADA Suspends Marathoner [Jim Martin] [ In reply to ]
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next time you get a cold call me.
I will prescribe whiskey and sleep.

Whiskey is allowed, in or out of competition!



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: USADA Suspends Marathoner [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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HuffNPuff wrote:
more likely to target age groupers when others complain

Now I see how to clean up the front end of the AGs in triathlon, we just need a good phone campaign! We get together in large numbers and report suspicion of anyone that is fast, they will get tested, if they are clean awesome. If not, they get busted, also awesome.

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Re: USADA Suspends Marathoner [Arch Stanton] [ In reply to ]
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Arch Stanton wrote:
How many amateurs are going to bow out of an event they signed up for because they took a cold med a few days before the event? Holding amateurs to the zero tolerance standards of professionals is just stupid.

It's not zero tolerance.

I don't believe there's any common OTC cold medicine that would trigger a positive at the recommended dosage. Believe it or not, there is common sense baked into WADA policy.
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Re: USADA Suspends Marathoner [Jim Martin] [ In reply to ]
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I would imagine there has to be more than a suspicion. Something like why WTC selected Moats for an OOC test.
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Re: USADA Suspends Marathoner [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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HuffNPuff wrote:
I would imagine there has to be more than a suspicion. Something like why WTC selected Moats for an OOC test.

USADA claims the right to test anyone at anytime for any reason.
So there doesn't HAVE to be even a suspicion.
In practice there probably is some typical standard set of parameters that will cause them to test an amateur but I don't know if anyone knows what they are.



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: USADA Suspends Marathoner [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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HuffNPuff wrote:
I doubt it was random. It's possible her competitors harbored suspicions and some may have contacted USADA. They don't have the resources for truly random testing, and are more likely to target age groupers when others complain or they have some reason to believe that someone is cheating. That's probably why we keep seeing age groupers popped here and there in cycling, running, and triathlon. It would be really interesting to know the percentage of failed age grouper drug tests each year as a percentage of total age groupers tested. I bet the number actually tested is pretty low and the percentage popped pretty high...an indicator that the tests are not random.

Apparently, Pikes Peak was the first trail event in the US to institute drug testing. According to the article linked below, they were to randomly test six out of the top ten finishers in the marathon (I assume for both genders, though the article isn't clear). This woman was the seventh place female in the marathon, which means that she had a 60% chance of getting tested. So, it wasn't "random," but it also doesn't seem to be a case of targeted testing.

http://www.runnersworld.com/...on-adds-drug-testing
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Re: USADA Suspends Marathoner [craigj532] [ In reply to ]
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Good on Pikes Peak! Her comments seemed to indicate that she thought USADA only tested T&F athletes, not road or trail runners.
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