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Meanwhile, in Canada.....
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Besides IMLP, last Sunday was IM Canada, a race with a $75k pro prize purse that paid 8 deep. We had 8 male pro finishers and 7 female pro finishers. Every pro finisher got a check. And for the women, there was no one to give the 8th place check to.
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [CEOIronman] [ In reply to ]
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Bink scared them away.
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [CEOIronman] [ In reply to ]
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This is a problem WTC created. Too many races (ironman distnance) with pro field. some should be age group only.

Make sure there is 200k + price purse in the 5-6-10 events you target for the pro....pay 20 deep and anyone getting in the top 10 is going to kona. it would be great for the sport to have bigger field...higher competition and for a pro to actually get a decent pay check instead of fighting for 5k for the win and a handfull of points....

too much racing dosnt support high performance model at those long distance

Jonathan Caron

Jonnyo Coaching
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [CEOIronman] [ In reply to ]
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And the effort to have a good pro race was appreciated. It was a much better group of pros than in recent years in my mind. Unfortunately, I had to watch this year due to some serious health issues, but it was a fun pro race to follow (except for Marino really crushing the bike and getting a huge lead). My whole family really got into it, and it makes the event seem like a more important event. I'm sure lots of people will say I'm wrong and the pro field doesn't add anything, but to me its one of the big differences between a race like this and a local event.
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [CEOIronman] [ In reply to ]
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I think that's a function of a few things, but the two that pop out in my mind are:

1. Dilution of shrinking pro field (see #2) over too many races with too shallow/small of a purse - especially at the IM distance since athletes can only race 2-3 per year. Fewer races, or tiered races like ITU, would help.

2. There's few incentives for age groupers to turn pro, so the pro field available for IM is relatively small. It's virtually impossible to qualify for Kona as a pro, but relatively easy as a fast age grouper. Since probably 80% of pros work full time jobs anyway and make their income outside of racing - it's not surprisingly that fast athletes continue to race as age groupers so they can go to the big dance year after year after year after year - having only done one race instead of paying to go to 10.

3. Location (relative to IMLP) - The bulk of the pro field were able to drive to IMLP, as it's relatively accessible to the majority of the NE.

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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [CEOIronman] [ In reply to ]
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Andrew, I'm not really sure what you are expecting with this post. I can only foresee this thing devolving into criticisms and insults directed towards your company, deserved or not. If you are trying to start a conversation about professional prize purses I think you have an audience. This post though is not going to win over any new fans for you.
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [CEOIronman] [ In reply to ]
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Were they giant checks? :)

Since you've been kind/bold enough to jump into the Slowtwitch world, I'm just gonna blurt out what everybody (in my cubicle) is probably wanting to ask you:

What are your feelings/thoughts on what happened at IMLP?

Travis Rassat
Vector Cycle Works
Noblesville, IN
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [Ellsworth53T] [ In reply to ]
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Agreed. I foresee this turning into the Michi Weiss thread. He may answer a few questions, but probably ignore most.
Hopefully I'm wrong and this can be a good discussion but I kinda doubt it. And if the purpose to start this thread was to thumb your nose at us, why would someone do this to many long time customers and potential future customers?
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [Ellsworth53T] [ In reply to ]
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Ellsworth53T wrote:
Andrew, I'm not really sure what you are expecting with this post. I can only foresee this thing devolving into criticisms and insults directed towards your company, deserved or not. If you are trying to start a conversation about professional prize purses I think you have an audience. This post though is not going to win over any new fans for you.

Yes, it seems a little like stooping to TRS level in snarky responsiveness...... And I think WTC in general does a good job by AGers. Don't follow the pros enough to really know
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [CEOIronman] [ In reply to ]
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CEOIronman wrote:
Besides IMLP, last Sunday was IM Canada, a race with a $75k pro prize purse that paid 8 deep. We had 8 male pro finishers and 7 female pro finishers. Every pro finisher got a check. And for the women, there was no one to give the 8th place check to.


That's wonderful. Can you talk to Jeff Edwards (VP Operations for Ironman North America) for me? I would like my check back.

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Contact me for Huub and Falco Discounts
Last edited by: TheRealStarky: Jul 31, 14 11:44
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [TheRealStarky] [ In reply to ]
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You want it back? I thought that the idea was to give it away.
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [CEOIronman] [ In reply to ]
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CEOIronman wrote:
Besides IMLP, last Sunday was IM Canada, a race with a $75k pro prize purse that paid 8 deep. We had 8 male pro finishers and 7 female pro finishers. Every pro finisher got a check. And for the women, there was no one to give the 8th place check to.

So a pro would have to place, what, 4th or better just to pay for travel expenses? Unless of course they can find a couch owned by a kind soul to sleep on...might save them some bucks that way.

#Ridiculous
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [CEOIronman] [ In reply to ]
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What a blatantly petty post to try to show why you shouldn't have to #pay10deep. This reflects poorly on your organization, the real question should be WHY was there no 8th place finisher? TRS may be a blowhard but at least he and the other 200+ people who donated cared. The only ace up your sleeve is Kona, enjoy your favorable winds. When the tide with the community and the mayor begin to sway you may find your house of cards beginning to crumble.
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [ttmonkey] [ In reply to ]
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Popcorn please. This is going to be good.
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [snackchair] [ In reply to ]
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snackchair wrote:
I think that's a function of a few things, but the two that pop out in my mind are:

3. Location (relative to IMLP) - The bulk of the pro field were able to drive to IMLP, as it's relatively accessible to the majority of the NE.

I agree with this. I raced IMLP as a pro female and chose that race because it was one I could drive to and do on a budget. I wouldn't have been able to afford the flight to Canada otherwise I would have really considered it. To race IM Canada would be a big risk (financially) with a possibly big reward, but if you take that risk and then just have an off day it could really put me in the red.
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [jonnyo] [ In reply to ]
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>too much racing dosnt support high performance model at those long distance

That's one way to look at it. Another way to look at it is to ask the question why the pro long-course athlete base hasn't scaled up with the age group athlete base.
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [CEOIronman] [ In reply to ]
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CEOIronman wrote:
Besides IMLP, last Sunday was IM Canada, a race with a $75k pro prize purse that paid 8 deep. We had 8 male pro finishers and 7 female pro finishers. Every pro finisher got a check. And for the women, there was no one to give the 8th place check to.

What % of EBITDA (for that specific race) did you pay the pros in Canada? Is it the same EBITDA % that you paid in Lake Placid? If not, why? If LP was as a smaller %, can you confirm that it is a less profitable race and you will eventually sell it back to someone who might not put 2,500 people on the course? I would be interested in buying just Lake Placid from you.


--------------------------------------------------------
John Behme
Charlotte, NC
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [CEOIronman] [ In reply to ]
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Andrew,
I honestly think what the triathlon community is telling you is that you need to do more to promote your professional athletes. For instance, you have to be the only sport in the world where people cannot see and compare stats from you website (lifetime earnings, wins, races, age, ect). Why in the world would you not promote the hell out of these rock stars? Why not let me compare 2 or 3 athletes stats to see who is really the best in certain areas or overall. Why not promote the head to head battles? If you can create stars, you can create a bigger audience. Paying more will bring in more athletes which means a deeper field and more competitive races. This seems really basic. How is it that your executive team hasn't grasped such a simple concept? If you make them stars, EVERYONE makes more money, but it has to start with WTC.
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [CEOIronman] [ In reply to ]
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Because $1,000 to the 8th place finisher is going to be a money losing venture for the athlete.

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [CEOIronman] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for posting and watching ST. I know USAT has a policy that none of them can post on ST, so great to see you are willing to engage.

Also thanks for putting the IMLT 70.3 in place, which I hope keeps IMLT alive. Wish you would have left Martis in so the race would have continued
to be "tough", but what the heck. Was fun doing IMLT last year, but looking forward to the same fun in the 70.3 this year.

I think the thread that had ideas on how the pros can market themselves better, and help WTC, is a much better way to approach this issue than
to just blame WTC for "not paying pros" enough. There is not a profession in the world that thinks they are paid enough, let alone overpaid.

Again, thanks for engaging.

.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:

>too much racing dosnt support high performance model at those long distance

That's one way to look at it. Another way to look at it is to ask the question why the pro long-course athlete base hasn't scaled up with the age group athlete base.

See my post. I think the difficulty of getting to Kona keeps ager's racing ag who might otherwise be mid to back of pack pros.

Unless you plan to race non-wtc races exclusively, it doesn't make sense to 'cat up'.

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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [CEOIronman] [ In reply to ]
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CEOIronman wrote:
Besides IMLP, last Sunday was IM Canada, a race with a $75k pro prize purse that paid 8 deep. We had 8 male pro finishers and 7 female pro finishers. Every pro finisher got a check. And for the women, there was no one to give the 8th place check to.

No they got each received a cheque.

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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [CEOIronman] [ In reply to ]
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Maybe it's time to say what's the plan for next year... (new structure)
since a lot of pros need to know ASAP...

__
Art director for argon 18.
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [CEOIronman] [ In reply to ]
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Did you ever think to ask yourself why were there only 8 and 7 pros entering your event?
The sarcastic jab does nothing for IMLP and the minimal effort in the pro field there.

I may be in the minority but I love to follow the pro field. I pay attention to the Ironman brand to track the pros in the sport. Without the pros you are just another race series.

------------------------
Cornwall (Ontario) Triathlon
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [alex_emetique] [ In reply to ]
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And some media outlets other then ST are now reporting on it.

http://www.xtri.com/...temId.511717199.html

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
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