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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [marcag] [ In reply to ]
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marcag wrote:
Cody,
Congratulations on your race.

If you had to rate your 5 hardest 70.3 runs, what would they be and where does Syracuse fit in there ?

Thanks. Syracuse was only my third 70.3 (fourth HIM), but it was without a doubt the hardest triathlon run course I've ever raced. I was almost reduced to walking up the big climb both laps, and I had the 3rd fastest run split! Coming back down, the grade is too steep to efficiently make up time and it just further trashes your legs. Besides hills, the course also has many other slow features: off-camber sections, some grass and loose gravel, 3 u-turns, <50% shade...

By "hardest", what I really mean is slowest. A given level of suffering can be achieved on any course, it's just the pace that varies.

Another factor that contributes to the difficulty of a run course is the bike course. Even with optimal pacing, a hilly bike course like Syracuse will produce a higher VI, which all else equal tends to hurt the run.

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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [GMAN19030] [ In reply to ]
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I had the opportunity to hear Lionel speak at the Triathlon Ontario AGM last year. You should check out a little about his background as well. Makes his story even more intriguing.

Dude has been through a lot and has come out the other side stronger! Mentally he is very tough, and obviously physically gifted.

He will be a force to be watched in the coming years for sure.

NCCP certified Comp coach
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [GMAN19030] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [GMAN19030] [ In reply to ]
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In the words of the late-great Col. Sanders: "I'm too drunk to taste this chicken."
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [sentania] [ In reply to ]
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He runs like someone stole his wallet and he's going to chase them down...
A seriously nice guy from a small town. Humble, works hard and once he learns to swim will be doing even more sh*t kicking. As someone else mentioned, his is an interesting story.
Makes a point of coming back to his home race (the ironhawk duathlon) every year. Never holds back
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [Gervs] [ In reply to ]
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Gervs wrote:
Another awesome one for you too yesterday Cody!

Lionel was around last weekend and did a short course brick after a huge swim workout.
30 minutes @ 300+ watts! then 5k in 15:45
8 minutes rest
30 minutes @ 300+ watts! then 5k in 15:32.

Lionel is lacking nothing in terms of dedication and motivation to get better, faster, stronger. Monster athlete and still very early in his career.


Thanks for sharing
And shite!!!...those are some serious ITU-(pointyEnd) run numbers !!! I (Love that negative split too:)


.

Kids need to be on their bikes ripping around, getting dirty, falling down, and getting up
~ Lance Armstrong
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [GMAN19030] [ In reply to ]
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HUGE talent coupled with years and years of hard work, with still some improvements to come( swim) means, watch out!

It's been a pleasure to watch the growth and improvements from my front row seat as a race announcer at many triathlons in Ontario.

He is a great runner naturally, but his fitness on the run has been honed even more by running on the MacMaster University (Hamilton, ON) cross-country running team for the past few years. It's a great program they have there - higher level NCAA Div 1 equivalent.

It will be exciting to see where Lionel goes this year. He's and a bit of a slow start with some mechanical and other issues, taking him out of races, but still running back strong at the end.


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Its nice to see Lionel getting the start of the recognition he deserves. Lionel was with me all winter in my Tucson Arizona base and I saw some of the most incredible daily workouts I have ever witnessed in 30+ years of triathlon. My days around Simon Whitfield showed me what FAST looked like. Fast for the 2 hr Olympic Distance race distance. Simon was nothing short of remarkable for nearly 20 years at going fast for sub-two hour racing. Lionel on the other hand was made to ultimately win Ironman races. He has been a full-time student (last summer he was taking full summer courses as well as trying to train and race). This past Feb was the first time he was ever away for a proper winter's base. His new relationship with Miguel Vadillo (a famous open water swim racer & coach) is going to make a big difference in his swimming in the next 12-18 months. While Lionel and I don't anticipate he will be beating Andy Potts or Jan Frodeno out of the water, he will get much closer out of the water in the next year and a half. His biking still has a lot of room for improvement (even though he has done a number of sub 2hr 10 min rides for 90km over the winter). Finally, the running he has shown the world in the last 12 months is a god-given talent. Last year, he did his first hard longer running race (the famous 30km AROUND THE BAY RUNNING RACE) where Kenyans have dominated for a decade. Lionel ran a 1hr 36min finish (3rd place overall to Kenyans beating a few) in his first 30km race. Thats 32min/ 10km avg pace for 30km on a hilly tough run course (and the first time he ran that distance). I first met Lionel when he was in grade 11 and told him at the provincial running championships that his real talent would one day be in Triathlon. All though it took him seven or eight years and a few years of setbacks, he now knows that he can be one of the best in the world at 70.3 and particularly Ironman. We all know that every year a new GUY TO LOOKOUT FOR comes along. Rarely do those new stars stay in the sport long enough to reach their true potential and one day become a champion. I am personally committed to helping this unique young man in anyway I can, reach his ultimate potential in sport. As an aside to show you how great a young guy he is. Two weeks ago, he won a small local triathlon in Ontario in the morning, then got on his bike and rode the 120km from the race site to my Kids of Steel Triathlon Venue to help volunteer for 8 hours setting up the kid's race course. The next day he spent 12 hours volunteering at the kid's race all day (instead of out doing his own training for Syracuse). In 30+ years of coaching and emceeing triathlon races all over the world, I have seen many athletes who claim they want to be great (but won't do the sacrifices required to be great). While there are no guarantees in life, I am a very good feeling about Lionel Sanders and the respect he has for the work required (and the great athletes he has to ultimately beat one day) to be a world champion. Its nice when great things happen to people who work hard for their dreams.
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [coachbarrie] [ In reply to ]
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Barrie,

Great back-ground. Thanks.

Triathlon while it's made up of three sports, swim/bike/run, has always been a bit more about the run. If for no other reason than the run is last! In deep competitive races, you run for the win and tops places in the top 10. Yes, occasionally, a race is won on the bike, but note what I said - "deep competitive races". Here, most often the top places are all decided by who runs the fastest!

I note this importance on the run is the same across most of the standard distance raced in the sport and formats ( drafting and no-drafting).

Of course we know that triathlon-running is different from just open stand-alone running, but let's be honest at the world class level, to be competitive internationally from a sprint race right through to an Ironman, you need to have close to national caliber run fitness and speed. Lionel has that, and it will serve him well as he evolves as a triathlete.


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Last edited by: Fleck: Jun 23, 14 11:45
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Its interesting that some world-class runners, have not transferred over directly to running fast off the bikes in triathlons. Dave Scott's best 10k, 1/2 marathon and full marathon times would have been respectable but not ridiculously fast. The thing that has been impressive with Lionel is how fast he has run in workouts, off the bike, after a very very hard bike. He would definitely fall into the group of unique athletes who's best 10k, 1/2 marathon and likely marathon run splits would be very close to his best times off the bike for those distances. I have seen 2:20 marathoners not be able to break 2:50 for the Ironman marathon and then runners like Lori Bowden break 3hrs off the bike in the Ironman marathon split, but not likely be able to run that much faster in a fresh marathon. Lionel definitely believes and knows he is going to have to run well under 2hrs 40min in the Ironman marathon down the road. But we all know that KNOWING & DOING are two different things. Its going to be a very interesting new era with Jan Frodeno, Bevan Docherty, Nicola Spirig and many other great past ITU athletes moving up to 70.3 and Ironman racing.
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [GMAN19030] [ In reply to ]
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I will say that I think it might be the best ever pure run performance in a 70.3 race. That course is absurd. It has about 100m less net elevation than St. George, but it all comes at once. St. George is easier to get into a rhythm, both uphill and downhill. That course - Syracuse - you have to grind the uphill and then maintain really, really fast turnover on the downhill. St. George was also short; Syracuse MIGHT be short, but if so, not by much. I started my watch late, and I got closer to an accurate 21.1 than in St. George, which was clearly almost 1km short.

When I saw how fast Lionel ran, I was honestly in disbelief. He passed me on the flats, where it's easier to motor. I almost wished I'd gotten to see him run up and down the big hill, but he was basically gone by the time I got there.

Improvements on the swim and bike are never a given, and - even if they do come - they do not always come without a cost (upper body bulk, for example, or a compression of the hip flexors when getting into a better bike position that may impact running, even if it more than makes up for it in terms of overall race speed or even something as simple as the fact that riding harder - even if you can do it - has a real metabolic cost). But Lionel clearly has truly phenomenal ability as a runner.

Whether he is able to become a more balanced triathlete or not, I think we're in for some fireworks in upcoming races. Hopefully for quite a while.

As an aside, I think we should also appreciate that Andrew Yoder outbiked Lionel by almost the exact same amount that Lionel outran him by, riding solo, on a crazy hard course... And he did it ALL IN THE SMALL CHAINRING! Yoder's Di2 crapped out - by his own admission, he had been lazy about charging the battery, so it's his fault, not Shimano's - and he had to do the whole course in the small ring. Granted, the "hard" parts of that course were certainly doable in the small ring - many of the parts where you NEEDED the big ring you also could have just tucked and coasted.

Not trying to diminish Lionel's achievements. But I think Yoder's 2:07 on that course was also quite remarkable, especially in light of his mishap, which albeit was of his own making... But anyway, a super impressive pair of performances for 1st and 2nd. And a very bright future for both athletes...


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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Good to hear a front row perspective from a Pro with your pedigree and you are -as always - bang on with your comments!
Big Improvements in the Colonel's swim especially, and bike certainly are NOT 'givens' and YES lets not forget that the sport is triathlon -not running - and Yoder indeed won the race!! ...and by a fairly healthy 2 minutes to boot! You would know better than anyone the kind of bike fitness needed to roll over that course in 2:07!! And then to still go sub 1:20 in the run !?!....wow




.

Kids need to be on their bikes ripping around, getting dirty, falling down, and getting up
~ Lance Armstrong
Last edited by: shady: Jun 23, 14 10:30
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Really??? In the small chainring? I can only imagine what his cadence must have been on the bike half of the bike, that is nuts. Like you say almost as nuts as sub 70 on that run course... almost.

Ewan

-------------------------

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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [GMAN19030] [ In reply to ]
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Any one know if he is after Kona points, or just staying with 70.3 this year?

Maurice

http://www.multisportsolutions.com
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [Gervs] [ In reply to ]
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Even though I realize that the pro's are better than me that's really humbling. What an epic workout.
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [Cody Beals] [ In reply to ]
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I saw first hand how fast Lionel is at Muskoka last year. He was just in the last mile or so of his race as I was in the first mile or so of the run. He was flying yet looked like he was out for a stroll. Can't wait to see him at IMMT WC.

BTW Cody, great race on your part too. A 4th and a 5th in your first two 70.3s as a pro! Onwards and upwards!


Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [GMAN19030] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for posting this and encouraging the discussion on Lionel.

All I can say is that its about damn time people start noticing Lionel and Cody. The things and improvements they have made in the past 2 years ive witnessed them, is staggering.

Lionel was competing in duathlons 2 years ago, barely knowing how to swim...and now he is only a few mins back off the leaders even in the swim.

Having personally seen both dominate at so many local races, I'm not at all surprised with Lionel's run, or Cody's performance.
I can echo their humility and down to earth nature.

Oh and thanks coach Barrie for your experience with Lionel.


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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [Cody Beals] [ In reply to ]
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Cody!
I was there too... Just wondering if you guys actually ran up that nasty climb at the end of each loop? I'm guessing that with that run split, Lionel actually flattened those hills without any problems!!
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [losse] [ In reply to ]
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So what we're saying, is that if he could swim 3 minutes faster, he'd be running with Gomez and the Brownless in the ITU circuit?.... aren't they about the only others on the planet that can consistently hit sub 1:10... if they really trained and raced for long course?


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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [marcag] [ In reply to ]
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Actually its' a little funny in that first place was the siwm/bike specialist. 2nd was the run specialist. 3rd was the somewhat unusual swim/runner combo.


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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [losse] [ In reply to ]
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losse wrote:
Cody!
I was there too... Just wondering if you guys actually ran up that nasty climb at the end of each loop? I'm guessing that with that run split, Lionel actually flattened those hills without any problems!!

The form of locomotion I used on that climb barely qualified as running. Power walking might have been more efficient at some points, but psychologically, I felt it was important to not allow myself to walk.

Lionel passed me near the bottom of the second lap climb. I don't think anyone "flattened those hills without any problems" but he looked way better than anyone else. I bet he would have run sub-1:08 on a flat course!

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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [Cody Beals] [ In reply to ]
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Cody Beals wrote:
losse wrote:
Cody!
...I felt it was important to not allow myself to walk.

For pride's sake, I felt the same way. I ran up that first part of the climb but after making the right turn and seeing the next "bump" I said I f*** pride!! It's been a while since I walked during a half... Even muskoka last year, ran the entire thing.

Congrats again!
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [blitzkrieg] [ In reply to ]
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blitzkrieg wrote:
Thanks for posting this and encouraging the discussion on Lionel.

All I can say is that its about damn time people start noticing Lionel and Cody. The things and improvements they have made in the past 2 years ive witnessed them, is staggering.

Lionel was competing in duathlons 2 years ago, barely knowing how to swim...and now he is only a few mins back off the leaders even in the swim.

Having personally seen both dominate at so many local races, I'm not at all surprised with Lionel's run, or Cody's performance.
I can echo their humility and down to earth nature.

Oh and thanks coach Barrie for your experience with Lionel.

You mean Lionel didn't thank Barrie on his Blog??
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [ptakeda] [ In reply to ]
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haha...I meant to thank coach Barrie for posting the experience he had with Lionel. ..And the fact that he didn't attend the Binbrook awards ceremony not just to get a long ride in, but to volunteer at Barrie's race.

Smartypants.


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http://www.3sixty5cycling.com/ Ask me for a $50 discount on 3SIXTY5 Wheels!
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Re: Lionel Sanders 1:09:54 on the Syracuse 70.3 run [blitzkrieg] [ In reply to ]
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Wow. A really inspiring story. Being a newbie I hadn't heard of Lionel. Now I'll keep an eye out for him.
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