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IMC rumor
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So I've heard from a fairly reliable source that next year we'll be looking at Challenge Penticton.
Could change the game. $400 entry fees - huge purses for the pros.
Will N. Americans do it - or will they stay away in droves as they have other attempts to compete with the WTC?

Let me repeat - this is NOT 100% reliable info!!
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Re: IMC rumor [Writerguy] [ In reply to ]
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Writerguy wrote:
So I've heard from a fairly reliable source that next year we'll be looking at Challenge Penticton.
Could change the game. $400 entry fees - huge purses for the pros.
Will N. Americans do it - or will they stay away in droves as they have other attempts to compete with the WTC?

Let me repeat - this is NOT 100% reliable info!!

If it's a rumour about IMC it should probably be spelled rumour.

Douchy Canadian spelling lesson over.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: IMC rumor [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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I didn't want to confuse my American friends.
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Re: IMC rumor [Writerguy] [ In reply to ]
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I think that would be a good thing if it were true. Not so much because I'm anti-WTC (I'm not really), but because it is a shame to see a race like IMC get P-1000 points and a $25k prize purse like the race has no history or importance.

__________________________

I tweet!

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Re: IMC rumor [Writerguy] [ In reply to ]
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I'd be happy to do either/both. With travel, lodging & training costs, $200 difference is basically in noise - as scary as that thought is.
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Re: IMC rumor [ZackC.] [ In reply to ]
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I have to agree with you on that. Sad to see one of the flagship races relegated down like that.
Though I have to go on record as saying I really have come to appreciate the tier system now in place.
These 1000 pnt races give the entry level pro a chance to get into the sport without going broke to race.
At least they can break even. I know many will disagree with me.
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Re: IMC rumor [Writerguy] [ In reply to ]
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One would think that in order for this to have already been decided the City of Penticton would have already figured out what to do about the ongoing contract with the current race AND have Felix from Challenge come over to Penticton,check out the course AND then negotiate a new contract AND find some locals to run the new event..AND...AND....AND...AND......most of that has not happened.

It is exactly what some people here would like to have happen though.

--
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Re: IMC rumor [Ultra-tri-guy] [ In reply to ]
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The current contract expires at midnight on Sunday, I'm told.
Whether Felix is in Penticton or not I couldn't say.
Maybe I'll jet him an email and see if I get an "out of office" reply! :)
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Re: IMC rumor [Writerguy] [ In reply to ]
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Writerguy wrote:
So I've heard from a fairly reliable source that next year we'll be looking at Challenge Penticton.
Could change the game. $400 entry fees - huge purses for the pros.
Will N. Americans do it - or will they stay away in droves as they have other attempts to compete with the WTC?

Let me repeat - this is NOT 100% reliable info!!

Doesn't WTC own the rights to this race though? Would they be selling the rights to Challenge? That wouldn't seem to make sense.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: IMC rumor [Writerguy] [ In reply to ]
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Writerguy wrote:
The current contract expires at midnight on Sunday, I'm told.
Whether Felix is in Penticton or not I couldn't say.
Maybe I'll jet him an email and see if I get an "out of office" reply! :)

----

You will find out tomorrow....There will be balloons involved.

---
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Re: IMC rumor [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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BLeP wrote:
Writerguy wrote:
So I've heard from a fairly reliable source that next year we'll be looking at Challenge Penticton.
Could change the game. $400 entry fees - huge purses for the pros.
Will N. Americans do it - or will they stay away in droves as they have other attempts to compete with the WTC?

Let me repeat - this is NOT 100% reliable info!!


Doesn't WTC own the rights to this race though? Would they be selling the rights to Challenge? That wouldn't seem to make sense.
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WTC owns the Ironman name and has no control over who hosts a race in Penticton.The City of Penticton decides who it allows to host a race here..

--
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Re: IMC rumor [Ultra-tri-guy] [ In reply to ]
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For the tech geeks amongst us - you can draw your own conclusions:

http://who.godaddy.com/...&prog_id=GoDaddy

http://who.godaddy.com/...&prog_id=GoDaddy
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Re: IMC rumor [Ultra-tri-guy] [ In reply to ]
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I like balloons.
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Re: IMC rumor [Ultra-tri-guy] [ In reply to ]
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Ultra-tri-guy wrote:
BLeP wrote:
Writerguy wrote:
So I've heard from a fairly reliable source that next year we'll be looking at Challenge Penticton.
Could change the game. $400 entry fees - huge purses for the pros.
Will N. Americans do it - or will they stay away in droves as they have other attempts to compete with the WTC?

Let me repeat - this is NOT 100% reliable info!!


Doesn't WTC own the rights to this race though? Would they be selling the rights to Challenge? That wouldn't seem to make sense.

---

WTC owns the Ironman name and has no control over who hosts a race in Penticton.The City of Penticton decides who it allows to host a race here..

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Maybe I am just confused.

What does this mean? Anything?

On Tuesday, city council received a letter from Graham Fraser, who has held the licence for the race since 1996, saying that he was relinquishing control of the Penticton race to the World Triathlon Corporation.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: IMC rumor [Writerguy] [ In reply to ]
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Wow. Nice work.
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Re: IMC rumor [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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The city can issue or not issue permits to anyone for a race. If Penticton thinks the WTC is a bunch of greedy weasels, and they don't want to work with them, then they won't permit them. If Penticton likes the WTC and thinks that they can turn the race into a huge deal and bring in big revenue for the city, then they will probably work with them and issue the permits. If Challenge and Felix are their choice, they will permit a race that way.

Finally, Though Graham has been the RD for IMC for a long time, that doesn't mean that he necessarily owned the event. He may be relinquishing the rights to the IMC name, and relinquishing any rights to hold a race named IMC to WTC, but that doesn't necessarily mean he owns the race and is relinquishing that to WTC.

It will be interesting to see. I think WTC is charging too much for their races, but that's a consensus of 1...
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Re: IMC rumor [fasterisbetter] [ In reply to ]
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If this is the case then Penticton really should seriously consider bringing in Challenge. WTC is treating this race as a third class citizen.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: IMC rumor [Writerguy] [ In reply to ]
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Not to pile on but I've heard/seen IM Canada possibly moving to Kelowna. Anyone else?

Shawn
361° USA
Questions about 361° USA, contact me via DM or email (in profile)
TORRE Consulting Services, LLC
http://www.TORREcs.com
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Re: IMC rumor [ShawnF] [ In reply to ]
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ShawnF wrote:
Not to pile on but I've heard/seen IM Canada possibly moving to Kelowna. Anyone else?

----

Lot's of funny rumours and that one ranks right up there...

---
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Re: IMC rumor [Writerguy] [ In reply to ]
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...another rumor is it would be a 70.3 next year though i have a hard time seeing this - due to it's proximity to Kona it seldom attracts a great pro field however it always attracts a great AG field and is an icon on the circuit....i'd love to see it go to Challenge
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Re: IMC rumor [Writerguy] [ In reply to ]
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Writerguy wrote:
For the tech geeks amongst us - you can draw your own conclusions


Holy crap CSI ST has gotten good
Last edited by: ChrisM: Aug 22, 12 11:05
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Re: IMC rumor [Zulu] [ In reply to ]
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Zulu wrote:
...another rumor is it would be a 70.3 next year though i have a hard time seeing this - due to it's proximity to Kona it seldom attracts a great pro field however it always attracts a great AG field and is an icon on the circuit....i'd love to see it go to Challenge
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The factors that decide who runs the race and under what banner will have very little to do with the sport of triathlon and everything to do with what is good for the City of Penticton.

--
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Re: IMC rumor [ChrisM] [ In reply to ]
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ChrisM wrote:
Writerguy wrote:
For the tech geeks amongst us - you can draw your own conclusions


Holy crap CSI ST has gotten good

Nah, just the right people knowing the right people.

It would be great if the rumor was true!!

Hiya WriterGuy!!

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
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Re: IMC rumor [Writerguy] [ In reply to ]
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I just hope Tickleberry's is involved.
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Re: IMC rumor [Ultra-tri-guy] [ In reply to ]
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no debating that at all - as i said as a semi local (vancouver based who spends about a month a year in Penticton - i'd love to see Challenge here - it would be a great re fresher for the race
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Re: IMC rumor [Zulu] [ In reply to ]
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Zulu wrote:
no debating that at all - as i said as a semi local (vancouver based who spends about a month a year in Penticton - i'd love to see Challenge here - it would be a great re fresher for the race
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Yes,I agree but we have to convince the City of Penticton that the triathlonworld does not revolve around the bloody M-Dot.A vocal approval of another event from triathletes on forums like this will help them realise that a different event in Penticton will still bring in the numbers to benefit the local economy...All that is in progress right now.

---
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Re: IMC rumor [trackie clm] [ In reply to ]
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Hi!
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Re: IMC rumor [Ultra-tri-guy] [ In reply to ]
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>>Yes,I agree but we have to convince the City of Penticton that the triathlonworld does not revolve around the bloody M-Dot.A vocal approval of another event from triathletes on forums like this will help them realise that a different event in Penticton will still bring in the numbers to benefit the local economy...All that is in progress right now.


Absolutely!!

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Re: IMC rumor [Ultra-tri-guy] [ In reply to ]
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Ultra-tri-guy is ON it. Sad from a traditionalists perspective but change happens.
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Re: IMC rumor [Bike99] [ In reply to ]
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When is the announcement supposed to be?
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Re: IMC rumor [Tri Bread] [ In reply to ]
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Tri Bread wrote:
When is the announcement supposed to be?

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Tomorrow....but I am quite sure that whatever is being announced will not be the end of the story.

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Last edited by: Ultra-tri-guy: Aug 22, 12 11:32
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Re: IMC rumor [NJSteve] [ In reply to ]
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NJSteve wrote:
I just hope Tickleberry's is involved.

Word.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jen - @ultragrrl

"In order to keep a true perspective on one's importance, everyone should have a dog that worships him and a cat that will ignore him." - Dereke Bruce
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Re: IMC rumor [Writerguy] [ In reply to ]
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Further, challengepenticton.ca seems to redirect to challenge-penticton.com...

http://who.godaddy.com/...&prog_id=GoDaddy

Domain Name: challenge-penticton.com
Domain Name ACE: challenge-penticton.com
Domain Language:
Registrar ID: CORE-115 (Server Service GmbH)
Created On: 2012-08-09 05:20:46 GMT
Expiration Date: 2013-08-09 05:20:46 GMT
Status: ok
Registrant ID: COCO-10572604
Registrant Name: Felix Walchshoefer
Registrant Organization: Team Challenge GmbH
Registrant Street: Westring 40
Registrant City: Roth
Registrant State/Province:
Registrant Postal Code: 91154
Registrant Country: DE
Registrant Phone:
Registrant Phone Ext:
Registrant Fax:
Registrant Fax Ext:
Registrant Email: info@challenge-roth.de
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Re: IMC rumor [JenSw] [ In reply to ]
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Unfortunate if true - IMC is IMC to me. To compare, MotoGP and World Superbike may race at the same tracks certain years but I follow a series versus a track. Nothing against Challenge but there's something special about Ironman (hence why some argue we overpay for addmission).

My 2 cents...

ItsAGoodLifeIfYouTriIt
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Re: IMC rumor [Mr X] [ In reply to ]
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I'm a little worried about what this means for registration, as I'm driving out there on Sunday to sign up for 2013. I want to race the venue, whatever it is next year.
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Re: IMC rumor [RyanDay] [ In reply to ]
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RyanDay wrote:
I'm a little worried about what this means for registration, as I'm driving out there on Sunday to sign up for 2013. I want to race the venue, whatever it is next year.

---

You should find out tomorrow.

---
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Re: IMC rumor [Mr X] [ In reply to ]
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Roth became a better race once it cut away from Ironman. I think Challenge Penticton has HUGE potential.

-

The Triathlon Squad

Like us on Facebook!!!
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Re: IMC rumor [Writerguy] [ In reply to ]
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as i'd understood it, IM north america was a quasi-separate entity from WTC - it was graham who owned/ran it, although it did license the M-dot brand.

can anyone clarify?

-mike

____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/
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Re: IMC rumor [Paulo Sousa] [ In reply to ]
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Paulo Sousa wrote:
Roth became a better race once it cut away from Ironman. I think Challenge Penticton has HUGE potential.


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I totally agree Paulo and an Ironman distance race of 1,500 with a half of 700'ish on the same day would fit the bill here...That and a additional few events during the week.

--
Last edited by: Ultra-tri-guy: Aug 22, 12 12:47
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Re: IMC rumor [Ultra-tri-guy] [ In reply to ]
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Ultra-tri-guy wrote:
Zulu wrote:
no debating that at all - as i said as a semi local (vancouver based who spends about a month a year in Penticton - i'd love to see Challenge here - it would be a great re fresher for the race

--

Yes,I agree but we have to convince the City of Penticton that the triathlonworld does not revolve around the bloody M-Dot.A vocal approval of another event from triathletes on forums like this will help them realise that a different event in Penticton will still bring in the numbers to benefit the local economy...All that is in progress right now.

---
____

Nick, I respect your opinion , but the triathlon world does indeed revolve a lot around the bloody MDOT. ST always gets the WTC haters out .... but they don't enter their races anyway ... those of us who do are fine with the VALUE we get from WTC even though we pay more. I wouldn't come back to Penticton for a replacement race (I've been there many times) ... and I suspect many of us who travel outside of Canada would be absent. Penticton would lose a lot and it would become much more of a local flavor race .... many would like that I'm sure .. but the dollars for Penticton would be gone. I think Penticton will make a better business decision in the end and little will change .... but indeed we'll see. I hate to say this, but most of us could care less what pros come to any race ... except Kona.

Dave :-)
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Re: IMC rumor [Ultra-tri-guy] [ In reply to ]
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...darn...and I just signed up for IM Tremblant 2013. I am assuming if it goes the Challenge route, we'll get wave starts like in Roth. Then I'd be totally into Challenge Penticton (why did they not just register it as "Challenge Canada"). I also wonder what the race date would be? Same traditional weekend?

So now there will be a Challenge Penticton, and potentially an IMC in Kelowna?
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Re: IMC rumor [iron_mike] [ In reply to ]
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iron_mike wrote:
as i'd understood it, IM north america was a quasi-separate entity from WTC - it was graham who owned/ran it, although it did license the M-dot brand.

can anyone clarify?

-mike

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You are correct,Graham bought Ironman Canada in the mid '90's and took on the business of running an Ironman licenced event.He then formed North America Sports and opened up the US to his Ironman series which WTC never had operational control of.NAS was always his business but IMC was never part of the "package" which WTC eventually bought(I will not go into the specific's of that sale).He held on to IMC for his own reasons but now it seems he has had enough and is walking away with two years left on his contract with the city.(again not going to go into specifics).

---
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Re: IMC rumor [Writerguy] [ In reply to ]
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I did my first Challenge race a couple weeks ago (Copenhagen). The organization was every bit as good as IM and in many ways better (e.g. tools, pumps, & flat repair items at every bike aid station). I don't know what they do to get the community to support the race but they really outdid themselves (200K spectators for the run course). Part of the reason I am willing to spend $500+ for a race is that I want to be sure that the RDs have taken care of the details (volunteers, aid stations, patrolled intersections) and that costs money. If Challenge can do it cheaper without sacrificing quality, then I'm all for it. Maybe a bit of competition in North America will encourage WTC to step up their game. As it stands, there is little incentive for them to improve their product. I don't hate WTC (I loved IM Sweden and thinking of IM Switzerland next year) but I want them to work to get my $$.
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Re: IMC rumor [dcsxtri10] [ In reply to ]
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dcsxtri10 wrote:
Nick, I respect your opinion , but the triathlon world does indeed revolve a lot around the bloody MDOT. ST always gets the WTC haters out .... but they don't enter their races anyway ... those of us who do are fine with the VALUE we get from WTC even though we pay more. I wouldn't come back to Penticton for a replacement race (I've been there many times) ... and I suspect many of us who travel outside of Canada would be absent. Penticton would lose a lot and it would become much more of a local flavor race .... many would like that I'm sure .. but the dollars for Penticton would be gone. I think Penticton will make a better business decision in the end and little will change .... but indeed we'll see. I hate to say this, but most of us could care less what pros come to any race ... except Kona.

I think this could really revitalize the race and move it back to the grassroots 'community' type race that gave it such charm. I feel like that's been lost a little. Not to be too offensive to anyone, but maybe losing those participants for whom it's more about the brand than the experience... will improve the experience for everyone else.
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Re: IMC rumor [fasterisbetter] [ In reply to ]
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fasterisbetter wrote:
The city can issue or not issue permits to anyone for a race. If Penticton thinks the WTC is a bunch of greedy weasels, and they don't want to work with them, then they won't permit them. If Penticton likes the WTC and thinks that they can turn the race into a huge deal and bring in big revenue for the city, then they will probably work with them and issue the permits. If Challenge and Felix are their choice, they will permit a race that way.

Finally, Though Graham has been the RD for IMC for a long time, that doesn't mean that he necessarily owned the event. He may be relinquishing the rights to the IMC name, and relinquishing any rights to hold a race named IMC to WTC, but that doesn't necessarily mean he owns the race and is relinquishing that to WTC.

It will be interesting to see. I think WTC is charging too much for their races, but that's a consensus of 1...

I'd make that at least 2, and judging from all the other WTC bitch threads there's many more...
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Re: IMC rumor [Ultra-tri-guy] [ In reply to ]
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BTW - I won't make it up there this year. First time in 7 years I haven't done a Penticton visit. So bummed I won't get a chance to see you and the other cool people.

I'm glad I got IMC in when I did. It would suck if the race went away for some reason.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jen - @ultragrrl

"In order to keep a true perspective on one's importance, everyone should have a dog that worships him and a cat that will ignore him." - Dereke Bruce
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Re: IMC rumor [RandyS] [ In reply to ]
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Don't mean to hijack this thread :)

I also did Copenhagen and will do Sweden next year. Can you tell your impressions of the two? Which bike course is faster? Which swim is colder? Differences in the run?

Thanks :)


__________________________________________________________________________
My marathon PR is "under three, high twos. I had a two hour and fifty-something."
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Re: IMC rumor [bobloblaw] [ In reply to ]
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bobloblaw wrote:
dcsxtri10 wrote:

Nick, I respect your opinion , but the triathlon world does indeed revolve a lot around the bloody MDOT. ST always gets the WTC haters out .... but they don't enter their races anyway ... those of us who do are fine with the VALUE we get from WTC even though we pay more. I wouldn't come back to Penticton for a replacement race (I've been there many times) ... and I suspect many of us who travel outside of Canada would be absent. Penticton would lose a lot and it would become much more of a local flavor race .... many would like that I'm sure .. but the dollars for Penticton would be gone. I think Penticton will make a better business decision in the end and little will change .... but indeed we'll see. I hate to say this, but most of us could care less what pros come to any race ... except Kona.


I think this could really revitalize the race and move it back to the grassroots 'community' type race that gave it such charm. I feel like that's been lost a little. Not to be too offensive to anyone, but maybe losing those participants for whom it's more about the brand than the experience... will improve the experience for everyone else.

Indeed. I loved IMC, but pretty much written off ever doing it again due to the cost and crowding. If those were cut back significantly, that'd be a huge improvement IMO.
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Re: IMC rumor [OneGoodLeg] [ In reply to ]
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OneGoodLeg wrote:
bobloblaw wrote:
dcsxtri10 wrote:

Nick, I respect your opinion , but the triathlon world does indeed revolve a lot around the bloody MDOT. ST always gets the WTC haters out .... but they don't enter their races anyway ... those of us who do are fine with the VALUE we get from WTC even though we pay more. I wouldn't come back to Penticton for a replacement race (I've been there many times) ... and I suspect many of us who travel outside of Canada would be absent. Penticton would lose a lot and it would become much more of a local flavor race .... many would like that I'm sure .. but the dollars for Penticton would be gone. I think Penticton will make a better business decision in the end and little will change .... but indeed we'll see. I hate to say this, but most of us could care less what pros come to any race ... except Kona.


I think this could really revitalize the race and move it back to the grassroots 'community' type race that gave it such charm. I feel like that's been lost a little. Not to be too offensive to anyone, but maybe losing those participants for whom it's more about the brand than the experience... will improve the experience for everyone else.


Indeed. I loved IMC, but pretty much written off ever doing it again due to the cost and crowding. If those were cut back significantly, that'd be a huge improvement IMO.

I did IMC 6x and after 2008 wrote it off due to crowding/peletons down to Richter...I kind of joked that they magically created Ironman Florida replica from Penticton to Osoyoos and that I would not go back until they had waves to create better separation. I think if Challenge comes on board, we can have that.

Dev
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Re: IMC rumor [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
...darn...and I just signed up for IM Tremblant 2013. I am assuming if it goes the Challenge route, we'll get wave starts like in Roth. Then I'd be totally into Challenge Penticton (why did they not just register it as "Challenge Canada"). I also wonder what the race date would be? Same traditional weekend?

So now there will be a Challenge Penticton, and potentially an IMC in Kelowna?


I just did the same thing...I think it is a good way to hedge the bet though. If you didn't register for IMMT though you could be screwed and have to take a charity spot to do an iron distance next summer. If the challenge thing works out at a much lower fee ( than IM) then you could pull the plug on IMMT and do Penticton for a total cost still less than a WTC chartiy spot. If they move the date of penticton could get the best of both...
If IMC goes to Kelowna, might want to take a pass for a year and see how it goes.
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Re: IMC rumor [NJSteve] [ In reply to ]
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NJSteve wrote:
I just hope Tickleberrys is involved.

X2 lol, and the Big Bear just past Keremeos (I've drunk a lot of water from their water pump on training rides)
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Re: IMC rumor [Writerguy] [ In reply to ]
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where to start on this?

I will go straight to the finish line. A good idea.

I am back for my 5th IMC because I love this race for its course, the town and its residents, the wineries, the scenery, the weather. Taking away the radioactive glow of the M-dot will add to the experience.

@rhyspencer
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Re: IMC rumor [rhys] [ In reply to ]
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rhys wrote:
I am back for my 5th IMC because I love this race for its course, the town and its residents, the wineries, the scenery, the weather. Taking away the radioactive glow of the M-dot will add to the experience.

It's been a decade since I did my 4th but I'd also be pretty likely do a 5th if it really went mdot-less and therefore got less crowded, perhaps a bit less expensive, and retained the other attributes you mentioned. I like the idea of nobody fretting, whether legitimately or wishfully, about kona slots, and eliminating any spurious attraction to the logo (which of course attracted me at one time too, or so I thought, and I certainly don't begrudge anyone who is still enthralled by that specific aspect, but trust me, you'll get over it.)
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Re: IMC rumor [Mr X] [ In reply to ]
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Mr X wrote:
Unfortunate if true - IMC is IMC to me. To compare, MotoGP and World Superbike may race at the same tracks...

My 2 cents...

Pretty bad analogy. So much differences between MGP and Superbike: bikes, riders, rules, race schedule and -some could argue- rider ability.

Changing who organises a race changes nothing.
Same people can race, on the same bikes, on the same course. Only difference is who takes their money and what tattoo some of the participants wil get afterwards.


#######
My Blog
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Re: IMC rumor [skip] [ In reply to ]
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I also wonder if the elimination of the Kona slots would reduce the drafting. Right now, when Kona slots are at stake, otherwise honest guys see their Kona slots riding up the ride in a peleton and decide that those are the parameters for so called "success" and dive in.

With no Kona slots, I'd imagine that there would be a reduction in this type of behaviour, hopefully resulting in a better experience for everyone.
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Re: IMC rumor [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Don't buy that one. Only a very small percentage of the participants are legitimately going for Kona slots. Given that the race is so late in the year it's likely even a smaller percentage than it is at earlier races. Just look at how many people get slots on rolldown every year.
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Re: IMC rumor [Writerguy] [ In reply to ]
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Someone please crack this case before I drive 5.5 hrs to sign up for next year for no reason. I am not ashamed to admit it, I just want to KQ 1x and I can be done with WTC races. I stick mostly to local / smaller races etc..., but they don't offer spots to Kona. I don't believe anyone who says that if given the chance, they would not love to race Kona, $700 or not.
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Re: IMC rumor [jhouckwsu] [ In reply to ]
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Apparently there will be an official announcement made tomorrow. If I'm told anything earlier that won't be betraying any confidences, I'll report back.
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Re: IMC rumor [Ultra-tri-guy] [ In reply to ]
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C'mon guys I thought that there would be some awesome,over-the-top rumours abounding here by now.You guys are letting me down...;-)

Beautiful sunny day here right now which is about the only thing that we can be sure of.

--
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Re: IMC rumor [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Has anyone asked how the local Penticton tattoo parlors feel about this? The loss of M-dot branding has got to be a huge dip in annual revenues for them.

"The runner-up John Dunbar, a US Navy Seal, led after the second transition and had a chance to win but ran out of water on the marathon course; his support crew resorted to giving him beer instead." -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ironman_Triathlon
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [otto] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
otto wrote:
Has anyone asked how the local Penticton tattoo parlors feel about this? The loss of M-dot branding has got to be a huge dip in annual revenues for them.

Exactly! What the heck does a "Challenge Penticton" tattoo look like? ;)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Today is the second day of the rest of your life if you started keeping track yesterday
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [RyanDay] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
RyanDay wrote:
I'm a little worried about what this means for registration, as I'm driving out there on Sunday to sign up for 2013. I want to race the venue, whatever it is next year.



post of the month

___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [bobloblaw] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
bobloblaw wrote:
Don't buy that one. Only a very small percentage of the participants are legitimately going for Kona slots. Given that the race is so late in the year it's likely even a smaller percentage than it is at earlier races. Just look at how many people get slots on rolldown every year.


Doesn't your fourth sentence contradict your second one? If it rolls down so far, then more people by definition have a legitimate shot. Further, I think it would be difficult to overestimate the number of people who THINK they have a shot even though any rational analysis of the available data about them and/or the race would say otherwise. Anyway, I suspect Dev might be right, or maybe I just hope so. Sure, there are non-qualifying races that have plenty of drafting as well, but eliminating one of the triggers that might start packs forming in the first place can't hurt.
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [realAlbertan] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
realAlbertan wrote:
post of the month

I'm hoping no pink text missing. :-)
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [Cannonball] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Cannonball wrote:
otto wrote:
Has anyone asked how the local Penticton tattoo parlors feel about this? The loss of M-dot branding has got to be a huge dip in annual revenues for them.


Exactly! What the heck does a "Challenge Penticton" tattoo look like? ;)

I'd venture to say the maple leaf is by far the more important part of the existing design. But maybe I'm just saying that because the little ironman in mine looks kinda deformed, having been rendered by a stoned apprentice rather than the shop owner :-)
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [Writerguy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
And the domain registrant is:

Administrative Contact:
City of Penticton
Kristin Wilkes (kristin.wilkes@penticton.ca)
+1.2504902499
Fax: +1.2504902402
171 Main St
Penticton, BC V2A5A9
CA


Could this be the very same Kristin Wilkes, IT Manager for the City of Penticton!

Farewell IMC, long live Challenge Penticton.

That said, I am never right!






Writerguy wrote:
For the tech geeks amongst us - you can draw your own conclusions:


http://who.godaddy.com/...&prog_id=GoDaddy

http://who.godaddy.com/...&prog_id=GoDaddy


https://www.pbandjcoaching.com
https://www.thisbigroadtrip.com
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Kona slots have nothing to do with it. 2800 on course do with a hundreds if not close to 1,000 racers all coming out of water within 10 minutes of each other.

Kona race itself is brutal as half the race is exiting the water at same time. 1:00 to 1:10.

Best way to avoid the train is to swim faster; or much slower.

I will report back how it is Sunday next week but my experience over the years based on swimming 56-58min is the train comes by on hwy 97 into Oliver. Let it roll by, get on the back of it legally, ride past all of them on Richter's, have them pass on descent then never see them again once going by them on the rollers into the wind. Same every year I have done it. It has zero impact on my race if riding it in this way. By the time I have reached the out and back what was 30 riders is 5 or 6 tops.

I will say, one year an exception was a Japanese racer who won/maybe 2nd in AG rode right on back wheels all the way to Yellow Lake once the train came. Literally. Jumping from wheel to wheel. He was riding a Pinarello road bike so well prepared for his Indurain impersonation. After Yellow Lake the next time I saw him after laying into him for 60KMs with very well spoken F bombs was at 20KM into the run. Um, he ran by me like I was standing still on route to a sub 3hr marathon; second fastest I believe on the day! Next time I see him (BAM!) was when he sat next to me at the awards banquet after being on stage by complete fluke. The look on his face when getting photos taken with family said enough to me. I need not say another word to him. Priceless.

Anyway, looking forward to IMC 30th anniversary race whether last IMC or not. Love this race.

Whatever is announced, Challenge or another 5 year term (my bet) this town really gives it everything for us and I know for sure we all agree on that. Thank you Penticton.

@rhyspencer
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [sub-3-dad] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
sub-3-dad wrote:
Mr X wrote:
Unfortunate if true - IMC is IMC to me. To compare, MotoGP and World Superbike may race at the same tracks...

My 2 cents...


Pretty bad analogy. So much differences between MGP and Superbike: bikes, riders, rules, race schedule and -some could argue- rider ability.

Changing who organises a race changes nothing.
Same people can race, on the same bikes, on the same course. Only difference is who takes their money and what tattoo some of the participants wil get afterwards.

I really meant to say what Dev alluded to - the lack of Kona spots. While not obtainable by most it is still a challenge that exists and drives me to train harder. That said, I imagine Roth is the Kona of the Challenge world?

ItsAGoodLifeIfYouTriIt
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [Cannonball] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Cannonball wrote:
otto wrote:
Has anyone asked how the local Penticton tattoo parlors feel about this? The loss of M-dot branding has got to be a huge dip in annual revenues for them.


Exactly! What the heck does a "Challenge Penticton" tattoo look like? ;)

damn, this is what i was going to post/ask?



---------------------------------------
Fruit snacks are for winners
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [Jaymz] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
this one I assume:

http://www.linkedin.com/...in-wilkes/2b/903/a74


Jaymz wrote:
And the domain registrant is:

Administrative Contact:
City of Penticton
Kristin Wilkes (kristin.wilkes@penticton.ca)
+1.2504902499
Fax: +1.2504902402
171 Main St
Penticton, BC V2A5A9
CA


Could this be the very same Kristin Wilkes, IT Manager for the City of Penticton!

Farewell IMC, long live Challenge Penticton.

That said, I am never right!






Writerguy wrote:
For the tech geeks amongst us - you can draw your own conclusions:


http://who.godaddy.com/...&prog_id=GoDaddy

http://who.godaddy.com/...&prog_id=GoDaddy

ItsAGoodLifeIfYouTriIt
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [Writerguy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Updated 8/22...... still shows registration for next year open thurs / fri / mon..........................................................??????


Edit: 2 hrs later and there is now no registration on THurs and fri. Now its on Monday only.........

http://www.ironman.ca/schedule.php
Last edited by: jhouckwsu: Aug 22, 12 23:08
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [bmeer] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
so if you spectate/sherpa next year you plan on getting one of those, eh

_____________________________________________________________________
34 kona qualifiers 2006-'18 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
Foras Maps: Race Discovery made easy | Garmin Glycogen Use App | Garmin Fat Use App
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [jhouckwsu] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
If the rumours are true that will be registration for the 'new IMC on another course rumoured to be in Kelowna which is north of Pendicton.

___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [skip] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
skip wrote:
bobloblaw wrote:
Don't buy that one. Only a very small percentage of the participants are legitimately going for Kona slots. Given that the race is so late in the year it's likely even a smaller percentage than it is at earlier races. Just look at how many people get slots on rolldown every year.



Doesn't your fourth sentence contradict your second one? If it rolls down so far, then more people by definition have a legitimate shot. Further, I think it would be difficult to overestimate the number of people who THINK they have a shot even though any rational analysis of the available data about them and/or the race would say otherwise. Anyway, I suspect Dev might be right, or maybe I just hope so. Sure, there are non-qualifying races that have plenty of drafting as well, but eliminating one of the triggers that might start packs forming in the first place can't hurt.

The point he was making was that the competition for kona slots was a part of the problem with draft packs. I guess it COULD work both ways - slower guys think they've got a shot at rolldown so they stick with a peloton where their conscience would kick in otherwise. But it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Most people have life commitments that make dropping everything and going to Kona so quickly after IMC problematic at the very least. If you really want to KQ you're picking CDA or another 'early' season race, so you can at least reset your training and have a proper build/peak.
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [realAlbertan] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
As a local Kelowna athlete, I am curious where they could possibly set up a good bike course.????
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [piece] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
If you've been in the sport long enough, you should know they don't need a good bike course ;-)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://fmtricoaching.wordpress.com
3 slots open for 2020 season - PM or email
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [piece] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
piece wrote:
As a local Kelowna athlete, I am curious where they could possibly set up a good bike course.????

I've ridden a really nice bike ride north from Kelowna to Coldstream, via Predator Ridge. Much of the route runs along Lake Okanagan. Make it a return trip (along Kalamalka?) and you're pretty close to 180km. Not as beautiful as the current IMC bike course but still pretty nice. Or maybe they go the other way towards Kettle Valley. There's so much nice cycling in the area. I don't see this as a problem.

Will be interested to follow this thread. I'm going up to volunteer this weekend, and was planning to sign up for IMC 2013. If IMC is in Kelowna and Challenge is in Penticton, really not sure what I'll do.

Graham Barron Design: Custom west coast house design http://www.grahambarron.com/
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [rhet0ric] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
....".I think this could really revitalize the race and move it back to the grassroots 'community' type race that gave it such charm. I feel like that's been lost a little. Not to be too offensive to anyone, but maybe losing those participants for whom it's more about the brand than the experience... will improve the experience for everyone else."

I proposed to NAS a few years ago that the increase the entry price by 200 odd and cap the number of entries to 2000 - sounds i'll get my wish of a reduced number and the bonus of a reduce entry fee under challenge
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [Ultra-tri-guy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Ultra-tri-guy wrote:
Zulu wrote:
no debating that at all - as i said as a semi local (vancouver based who spends about a month a year in Penticton - i'd love to see Challenge here - it would be a great re fresher for the race

--

Yes,I agree but we have to convince the City of Penticton that the triathlonworld does not revolve around the bloody M-Dot.A vocal approval of another event from triathletes on forums like this will help them realise that a different event in Penticton will still bring in the numbers to benefit the local economy...All that is in progress right now.

---


Has anyone given thought to how many people will have to have laser treatment to remove the MDot tattoo they had scorched to their skin as a sign of loyalty???


________________
Adrian in Vancouver
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [rhet0ric] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Given how fast all of this seems to have come down the stream, I've got to wonder if it's probable that the WTC would have found another site this quickly?
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [realAlbertan] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
realAlbertan wrote:
If the rumours are true that will be registration for the 'new IMC on another course rumoured to be in Kelowna which is north of Pendicton.

--
Kelowna struggled to get the 600 volunteers needed to run the Apple Tri last weekend,where are they going to find volunteers for an Ironman....It will never be in Kelowna....There is so much info that is not known here on ST and can not be said here right now...You will all find out very soon.

---
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [Ultra-tri-guy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
You are so right! This town gets up on arms over minor delays during the Apple, there is no way we would get the support for ironman. I also think the logistics of setting up a bike course would be very challenging.
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [Writerguy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Challenge Family (facebook):
You asked for Challenge in North America and now we're very excited to honour your requests! Question is, where will Challenge Family announce it's next race?? Stay tuned for a live announcement today at 7.00pm CET, 10.00am PDT!


--------------------------------------------------------

http://vistica.wordpress.com
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [Writerguy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Just posted on the Challenge Family's facebook page https://www.facebook.com/ChallengeFamily

Quote:
You asked for Challenge in North America and now we're very excited to honour your requests! Question is, where will Challenge Family announce it's next race?? Stay tuned for a live announcement today at 7.00pm CET, 10.00am PDT!
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [Ultra-tri-guy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Maybe... the WTC does run on slave labour. At least other races here pay donations for volunteer groups (swim clubs, socccer clubs, TriCops to name a few).

___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [doug_steel] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Just really have to wonder if this means more Challenge races in NA. If so, do they catch on? And if they do, who does it hurt more...WTC or Rev? Let's face it, the universe of potential iron distance competitors is rather finite and we are just about at the point where demand is being fully met.
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [sinkinswimmer] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Maybe. But might we start seeing real competition in some regional markets?

___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [realAlbertan] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
realAlbertan wrote:
Maybe... the WTC does run on slave labour. At least other races here pay donations for volunteer groups (swim clubs, socccer clubs, TriCops to name a few).

Are you saying that WTC doesn't pay volunteer groups? Have you ever heard of the Ironman Foundation? I'll give you a hint, guess where the extra money for all those Foundation entries goes.
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [realAlbertan] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
seems like felix just confirm it is penticton for the next challenge...... if true, that is unreal..... WTC leaving a race that is healthy and selling out? there oldest ironman and probably there best course right now.

A little sad but on the other hand, challenge could potentially bring lots to the table and get the professional field back if they invest in it...

Jonathan Caron

Jonnyo Coaching
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [realAlbertan] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Not sure if this has been seen before. Is this page a placeholder perhaps? http://www.pentictonironman.com/index.html
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [Hot Tamales] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
pure speculation but someone recently reversed IronmanWhistler and paid for the privacy blocker on Go Daddy:

http://who.godaddy.com/...&prog_id=GoDaddy

Maybe WTC is following in the footsteps of Mont Tremblant and going to winter resort towns...lots of hotels and scenic location - just not sure how the bike course (and run course for that matter) would work.

ItsAGoodLifeIfYouTriIt
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [Hot Tamales] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hot Tamales wrote:
Not sure if this has been seen before. Is this page a placeholder perhaps?http://www.pentictonironman.com/index.html

Interesting. The page says that the race costs $700 U.S, which is the same as any WTC races. One of the pro of doing Challenge races, at least in Europe, is that they cost less than WTC races. I know the page is only a page holder, but I hope they follow their European price model.


__________________________________________________________________________
My marathon PR is "under three, high twos. I had a two hour and fifty-something."
Last edited by: zoom: Aug 23, 12 6:39
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [Mr X] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
What would the swim be like at Whistler?
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Re: IMC rumor [Tri Bread] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Tri Bread wrote:
What would the swim be like at Whistler?

Alta Lake - same as the Xterra Whistler course (or Green Lake which is larger and colder).

ItsAGoodLifeIfYouTriIt
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [Hot Tamales] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Found that last night...

___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [Writerguy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Challenge press conference 10am ET

Hmmm

@rhyspencer
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [jonnyo] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Having volunteered for years and racing 2 years, I can honestly say that a change would be nice. This is one of the most amazing Ironmans there is even if it is not an M-Dot race and there are no Kona slots. I said after 2000 that I would never race an ironman again but if it does change to Challenge Pentiction and they have the 140.6 race and a 70.3 race, then I would go back and start training for a half ironman on that course. I loved that race and a half up there would be great and a smaller field would be amazing as well. With all my back issues lately this would for sure give me the drive to get back up to a 70.3 distance race shape.

I think this would be great for the City of Penticton especially if the prize money is significantly bigger than what IMC is offering now and maybe just maybe attract some different international athlete. Hey that would mean that next year LA could race. YES! Sorry but I had to.

AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
one other awesome point is, the Challenge series would have 1 real legit full distance ironman where athlete dont always pb just by showing up ;)

Jonathan Caron

Jonnyo Coaching
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [rhys] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Looks like the rumours are true...

http://www.challenge-family.com/...en/2012-08-23-1.html
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Re: IMC rumor [Writerguy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
If they include camping in the cost of the race I might have to come out of retirement and figure out how to swim again...
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Re: IMC rumor [dcameron999] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
$675CA. So much for the discounted rate. Looks like Challenge beat WTC to the punch on that one.

Whistler could be interesting to say the least, another ski village aka IMMT, IMTAHOE...

2016:
IMFL #12
http://www.bestbikesplit.com
Last edited by: DFWTri: Aug 23, 12 7:05
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [dcameron999] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Very cool to see Peter Reid will be involved with the race.
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [Writerguy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Good to see your "fairly reliable source" getting back involved with the sport!
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [dcameron999] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Don't think you were supposed to find that page. it has been pulled (until the announcement).

------------------------
Cornwall (Ontario) Triathlon
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [dcameron999] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Link isn't working for me. So, what did it say?
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [dcameron999] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Sorry, looks like they pulled the page I found.
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Re: IMC rumor [Tri Bread] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I don't like having teams in the race. That would be demoralizing on the run.

The family stuff and wave starts are a good idea though.
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [dcameron999] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Well, tell us what it said!!!

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [Tri Bread] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
The basics are:
City will run the race.
Peter Reid is involved.
Relays
Wave starts
$675 including all fees.

------------------------
Cornwall (Ontario) Triathlon
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [DFWTri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
What did the link say??? Its down now. My car is running, as I am about to leave to Penticton so I can sign up for next yr. ( I am serious, I came in for one last ST hit).
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [dcameron999] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Would it be in bad form for me to post what the page said? Don't want to get kicked off the forum. :)
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [RobAllen] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
RobAllen wrote:
The basics are:
City will run the race.


But it is a Challenge race?

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [jhouckwsu] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Closed my page, but i thought it said Aug 25th 2013, $675CA registration. It was a full IM course. No details of course. Mentioned Peter Reid involved in some capacity.

2016:
IMFL #12
http://www.bestbikesplit.com
Quote Reply
Post deleted by jhouckwsu [ In reply to ]
Re: IMC rumor [zoom] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Sweden is colder in the water and faster (flatter and less technical) on the bike.
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [japarker24] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
japarker24 wrote:
RobAllen wrote:
The basics are:
City will run the race.


But it is a Challenge race?

Challenge races often have local organizations that are the directors of the race (except for Roth). The organization pays a fee to Challenge for advertising and expertise. Really no different than NASports putting on the Ironman North American events.

------------------------
Cornwall (Ontario) Triathlon
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [AJHull] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
AJHull wrote:

Has anyone given thought to how many people will have to have laser treatment to remove the MDot tattoo they had scorched to their skin as a sign of loyalty???

Hmmmm... You mean if you did a Swim-Bike-Run caricature instead of a corporate logo you might not have to do anything when you get disenfranchised? Funny how that happens
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [MarkyV] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
MarkyV wrote:
so if you spectate/sherpa next year you plan on getting one of those, eh

i love that you wrote that out in canadian.
i think i'll get multiple tats out of that.



---------------------------------------
Fruit snacks are for winners
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [ShawnF] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I just did the Kelowna Apple Triathlon. I do not think there would be enough room to host the Ironman. Space is tight in the downtown core where they would have to put it. Just saying.
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [jhouckwsu] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jhouckwsu wrote:
What did the link say??? Its down now. My car is running, as I am about to leave to Penticton so I can sign up for next yr. ( I am serious, I came in for one last ST hit).

Fwiw, in an updated IMC event schedule emailed to racers today, the times for early registration for 2013 are no longer listed for today and tomorrow.
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [loomster] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
loomster wrote:
Sweden is colder in the water and faster (flatter and less technical) on the bike.

Thanks :)


__________________________________________________________________________
My marathon PR is "under three, high twos. I had a two hour and fifty-something."
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [bt] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Saw that last night. In a span of 2 hrs the early reg times disappeared out of the on line schedule!!!
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Re: IMC rumor [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
to dcameron999 and those who commented to it:

that arm of this thread has been hidden from view. you did nothing wrong. just do me a favor and play along here. in a couple of hours all will be made known.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Slowman wrote:
to dcameron999 and those who commented to it:

that arm of this thread has been hidden from view. you did nothing wrong. just do me a favor and play along here. in a couple of hours all will be made known.

If nothing wrong was done, why hide it?


Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [rbuike] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
because the folks behind the announcement asked me to, and it seemed a reasonable request, since they're being very forthcoming in providing us with a lot of background info so that we can write a properly researched story for you all.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: IMC rumor [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Understood. I'll try to be patient. :)
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Re: IMC rumor [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Alright, can't see why we can't have both, it is an Internet forum after all with most of these threads being rumor but right now I am just bitter that we are losing one of the originals.

It's like the Boston Marathon ending and a new Massachusetts marathon replacing it. The same, but not the same.


Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [rbuike] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
i'm just asking that we not have any press release up right now. you can talk about whatever you want. but, just, not the press release. any posts that got pulled were fruit of the press release that was posted. that's the only reason they were pulled. you can feel free to talk about this on this thread starting now. no need to wait.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [dcameron999] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
See this ad on Triathlete magazine web page, though the link does not work yet.

Last edited by: Enduralete: Aug 23, 12 8:49
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Got it, that makes sense.


Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Slowman wrote:
to dcameron999 and those who commented to it:

that arm of this thread has been hidden from view. you did nothing wrong. just do me a favor and play along here. in a couple of hours all will be made known.


Oh sure, hide my inflammatory pro Steve King comments...


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Re: IMC rumor [dcameron999] [ In reply to ]
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just google 'challenge penticton'
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Re: IMC rumor [Enduralete] [ In reply to ]
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It still has a crappy date. If they want to bring in big name Pros it will be a tough sell with a late August date.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: IMC rumor [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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Well, the problem is Roth is in July, so they can't compete with that. The only option would be mid June to get a stacked Pro field.
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Post deleted by dukyle [ In reply to ]
Re: IMC rumor [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
Well, the problem is Roth is in July, so they can't compete with that. The only option would be mid June to get a stacked Pro field.

That's fine, but it doesn't change the fact that the date still sucks. Most big name pros will be getting ready for Kona. If (maybe they don't care all that much) they want a bigger pro field, the date needs to change.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Post deleted by Sandbagging [ In reply to ]
Re: IMC rumor [Ultra-tri-guy] [ In reply to ]
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Ultra-tri-guy wrote:
C'mon guys I thought that there would be some awesome,over-the-top rumours abounding here by now.You guys are letting me down...;-)


--

You mean like WTC being sold to Lifetime Fitness? ;)

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Re: IMC rumor [Sandbagging] [ In reply to ]
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Sandbagging wrote:
http://www.trimes.org/...tting-back-his-race/

It's official...

That press release has been posted twice already and Dan has asked people to hold off until 1PM when the official announcement happens...
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Re: IMC rumor [Writerguy] [ In reply to ]
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I still plan on volunteering, but I'm not sure what race I'll be signing up for??? I'm guessing Challenge won't have an early sign up for IMC volunteers.
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Re: IMC rumor [FatteLatte] [ In reply to ]
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FatteLatte wrote:
Sandbagging wrote:

It's official...


That press release has been posted twice already and Dan has asked people to hold off until 1PM when the official announcement happens...


Opps... sorry! I will try to delete it...
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Re: IMC rumor [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Dan when should I check back to read your story?
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Re: IMC rumor [FatteLatte] [ In reply to ]
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FatteLatte wrote:
Sandbagging wrote:
http://www.trimes.org/...tting-back-his-race/

It's official...


That press release has been posted twice already and Dan has asked people to hold off until 1PM when the official announcement happens...

It is 1 PM somewhere. . .
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Re: IMC rumor [FatteLatte] [ In reply to ]
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Dan's last post also says that it's ok to start talking about this. Am I the only one that is confused?

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: IMC rumor [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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BLeP wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
Well, the problem is Roth is in July, so they can't compete with that. The only option would be mid June to get a stacked Pro field.


That's fine, but it doesn't change the fact that the date still sucks. Most big name pros will be getting ready for Kona. If (maybe they don't care all that much) they want a bigger pro field, the date needs to change.

----

Changing dates is pretty much out of the question as there is just too much other shit going on in Penticton during the summer..Contrary to popular opinion triathlon isn't everything in this town.

--
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Re: IMC rumor [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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The Challenge people made a mistake and posted their press release online before making the official 10am PT announcement. That's all.

Graham Barron Design: Custom west coast house design http://www.grahambarron.com/
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Re: IMC rumor [Trick] [ In reply to ]
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It looks like the http://www.challenge-penticton.com thread is up, including registration link, but you need a code to register. Hopefully this saves me ~15 hours of driving this weekend. :-)
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Re: IMC rumor [Ultra-tri-guy] [ In reply to ]
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Ultra-tri-guy wrote:

Changing dates is pretty much out of the question as there is just too much other shit going on in Penticton during the summer..Contrary to popular opinion triathlon isn't everything in this town.

--

That is also fine. But any further talk of trying to get a better pro field should be squashed then. It isn't going to happen with a late August date. That's all I am saying.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: IMC rumor [rhet0ric] [ In reply to ]
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rhet0ric wrote:
The Challenge people made a mistake and posted their press release online before making the official 10am PT announcement. That's all.

Macca just retweeted a link. This horse is definitely out of the barn now...

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: IMC rumor [RyanDay] [ In reply to ]
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Will be interesting to see how you get a coupon code to register. I wonder if this year's volunteers will get a code? I hope so as I am volunteering this year.
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Re: IMC rumor [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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BLeP wrote:
rhet0ric wrote:
The Challenge people made a mistake and posted their press release online before making the official 10am PT announcement. That's all.


Macca just retweeted a link. This horse is definitely out of the barn now...

--

Everyone needs to go to the lake at 10am to check out the display.........


It is on like Donkey Kong........

I wonder which ST'er predicted this quite some time ago?

----
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Re: IMC rumor [Ultra-tri-guy] [ In reply to ]
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Ultra-tri-guy wrote:
BLeP wrote:
rhet0ric wrote:
The Challenge people made a mistake and posted their press release online before making the official 10am PT announcement. That's all.


Macca just retweeted a link. This horse is definitely out of the barn now...


--

Everyone needs to go to the lake at 10am to check out the display.........


It is on like Donkey Kong........

I wonder which ST'er predicted this quite some time ago?

----

Are they advertising the Challenge race at an IM event? Awesome. I need a picture of this.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: IMC rumor [dcameron999] [ In reply to ]
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dcameron999 wrote:
Will be interesting to see how you get a coupon code to register. I wonder if this year's volunteers will get a code? I hope so as I am volunteering this year.

Yeah, I'm in the same situation. Volunteering this weekend and was planning to sign up for IMC 2013.

I have no attachment to the Ironman brand. If anything I dislike it - the name, the bravado, the tattoos. I love the course in Penticton though and would be happy enter a well-organized race in a smaller field.

The only downside for me is that KQing was a goal for me - probably a longshot, but a goal nonetheless. Maybe I try for that at another IM event. Not sure yet. The WTC has a very clever setup with Kona qualification. It gives every competitive age grouper something to go for.

It would be nice if volunteering for IMC helped with either of those registrations.

Graham Barron Design: Custom west coast house design http://www.grahambarron.com/
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Re: IMC rumor [dcameron999] [ In reply to ]
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dcameron999 wrote:
Will be interesting to see how you get a coupon code to register. I wonder if this year's volunteers will get a code? I hope so as I am volunteering this year.

How/why would you get a code from this year's organizers for next year's race under different ownership?

Seems a bit like McD's handing out coupons for BK...
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Re: IMC rumor [dcameron999] [ In reply to ]
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Try "fuckwtc2013" for the code ;)

===============
#ITMFA
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Re: IMC rumor [OneGoodLeg] [ In reply to ]
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It would be a good courtesy for those who travelled with the hope to register for next year. Helps keep volunteering up for next year as well. Similar gesture to what HITS did with their NY race after the sewage thing...

I hope volunteering won't take a hit this weekend or next year, with some feeling like there "isn't anything in it for them" without next day registration!
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Re: IMC rumor [OneGoodLeg] [ In reply to ]
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I never said I was expecting WTC to give out codes. I was hoping that Challenge would be there and maybe make codes available to volunteers if they wanted to race in Challenge next year. I think that would be a good gesture from Challenge to get people to move from Ironman to Challenge.

It would be like a BK rep handing out BK coupons outside of a McD's. ;)
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Re: IMC rumor [OneGoodLeg] [ In reply to ]
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OneGoodLeg wrote:
dcameron999 wrote:
Will be interesting to see how you get a coupon code to register. I wonder if this year's volunteers will get a code? I hope so as I am volunteering this year.


How/why would you get a code from this year's organizers for next year's race under different ownership?

Seems a bit like McD's handing out coupons for BK...

I'd imagine the Challenge people would have a tent setup at the Bike Barn or another hotel close to the start and spread word to all the volunteers to head there after the race to register. Lock in as much revenue/participants as you can.

Brett Miller
Cydesdale Triathlon
M2 Revolution
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Re: IMC rumor [deacon42] [ In reply to ]
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They're streaming the announcement on their website at the top of the hour: 10AM Pacific Time.

http://www.challenge-family.com/
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Re: IMC rumor [FatteLatte] [ In reply to ]
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wave starts? Humm...
Last edited by: Sandbagging: Aug 23, 12 10:08
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Re: IMC rumor [FatteLatte] [ In reply to ]
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I'm having trouble getting this to activate.....others?
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Re: IMC rumor [GreatScott] [ In reply to ]
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Just politicians so far. Felix from Challenge is up now.

Brett Miller
Cydesdale Triathlon
M2 Revolution
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Re: IMC rumor [Ultra-tri-guy] [ In reply to ]
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Please for the love of everyone everywhere BRING BACK STEVE KING! Felix if you are reading this I will pay for his time all day long.

AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

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Re: IMC rumor [Sandbagging] [ In reply to ]
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Sandbagging wrote:
wave starts? Humm...

I know - they work so poorly at every other event distance.


float , hammer , and jog

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Re: IMC rumor [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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listening to this now. Very cool.

AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

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Re: IMC rumor [deacon42] [ In reply to ]
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Here is our story:

http://www.slowtwitch.com/..._announced_3011.html

To be updated.
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Re: IMC rumor [Herbert] [ In reply to ]
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Herbert wrote:
Here is our story:

http://www.slowtwitch.com/..._announced_3011.html

To be updated.

I'd be interested to know what happened? Did WTC give up? Did Penticton look elsewhere? Did Challenge scoop WTC while they tried to extend? Losing Ironman Canada is a big deal in my opinion. You can put a race on the same course but it won't be the same thing.


Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca
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Re: IMC rumor [Writerguy] [ In reply to ]
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LOVE IT!!!! see you next year.
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Re: IMC rumor [GreatScott] [ In reply to ]
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GreatScott wrote:
I'm having trouble getting this to activate.....others?

Windoze Media Player? You don't say. Who are the primitives at City of Penticton that chose this program? Sheesh!

"The runner-up John Dunbar, a US Navy Seal, led after the second transition and had a chance to win but ran out of water on the marathon course; his support crew resorted to giving him beer instead." -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ironman_Triathlon
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Re: IMC rumor [Herbert] [ In reply to ]
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And the official race site:

http://www.challenge-penticton.com/
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Re: IMC rumor [rbuike] [ In reply to ]
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I'm guessing Penticton were facing a massive increase in fees to WTC and couldnt afford to pay it. I think I read they were paying Graham Fraser $50k this year. Biggest question for me is how many folks will race this? The draw of Kona is material to a maybe 20% of AGs so perhaps we see 2000 toe the line in 2013??

Swim - ( x ) All good ( ) In the shop
Bike - ( x ) All good ( ) In the shop
Run - ( ) All good ( x ) In the shop
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Re: IMC rumor [rbuike] [ In reply to ]
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+1. Is this a red flag for WTC? Will this change their focus in any way? Challenge touts "for the athletes." I don't know what this means.
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Re: IMC rumor [CaptainCanada] [ In reply to ]
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CaptainCanada wrote:
Try "fuckwtc2013" for the code ;)
BOOM there it is!
Registration opens Monday!
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Re: IMC rumor [Alex M] [ In reply to ]
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"Challenge Penticton is pleased to announce that the course Canadian athletes have grown to know and love will remain the same."
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Re: IMC rumor [Ultra-tri-guy] [ In reply to ]
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Any word on the rumor of IMC moving to Kelowna?
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Re: IMC rumor [Alex M] [ In reply to ]
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Alex M wrote:
+1. Is this a red flag for WTC? Will this change their focus in any way? Challenge touts "for the athletes." I don't know what this means.

It honestly should be a huge red flag. Venerable races like IMC switching over will be the tip of the iceberg. Companies like Challenge and Rev will swoop in and capitalize on all the missteps that WTC has had over the past few years. If you are not looking for a Kona slot (which is realistically 90% of the field) why would you care about branding. Do people really stand around the water cooler and not call themselves 'ironman' just because they raced a non mdot race. That's crazy. I have given WTC a lot of my money in the past and have had some amazing experiences but their recent stumbling makes me want to do more independent races.

I think this is a great development for Penticton, the race itself, and triathlon in general.

===============
#ITMFA
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Re: IMC rumor [Herbert] [ In reply to ]
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WTC got scooped at one of their classic races. I'm sure many other cities will now look at WTC with some skepticism. Can they get a better deal from someone else? Will Madison, Lake Placid, and Tempe look to court Challenge, HITS, and REV3? Time will tell I guess. Will be interesting for sure.
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Re: IMC rumor [Alex M] [ In reply to ]
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Alex M wrote:
+1. Is this a red flag for WTC? Will this change their focus in any way? Challenge touts "for the athletes." I don't know what this means.

Between this, the IMNYC fiasco, 70.3 Rhode Island going away, and all the other issues with some WTC-related races, things must be getting quite interesting over at WTC. I wonder what this is all going to mean going forward??
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Re: IMC rumor [CaptainCanada] [ In reply to ]
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Are you going to put in a few extra bouts of "training" to celebrate? ;-)


OK - this struck me as somewhat ironic - the front page (what? there's a front page?) article about this, has a related article listed about how Challenge Cairns became IM Cairns.

It's almost like IMC was the "player to be named later" in a trade...


float , hammer , and jog

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Re: IMC rumor [oceanswimmer] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting that there's no press release from WTC on this yet?

Swim - ( x ) All good ( ) In the shop
Bike - ( x ) All good ( ) In the shop
Run - ( ) All good ( x ) In the shop
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Re: IMC rumor [GreatScott] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Any word on the rumor of IMC moving to Kelowna?

x2

I assume there was something in writing saying Challenge could make their announcement first before WTC would be allowed to say where they were going to hold IMC 2013. Registration for 2013 is still on the schedule for this year's IMC line of events.
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Re: IMC rumor [Writerguy] [ In reply to ]
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Once everything settles down, I think we'll look back and say this was a MAJOR turning point for the sport of triathlon (or at least long distance triathlon).
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Re: IMC rumor [TriZag] [ In reply to ]
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A friend who is in Penticton right now says IMC is going to Montreal. I have no proof but that is the word on the street.


Peter Solymosi
The Tri Bike Fit Studio
Vernon, BC
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Re: IMC rumor [CaptainCanada] [ In reply to ]
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If I only did one 'iron distance' race and it was Challenge, I would definitely still call myself an Ironman. WTC can own the brand all they want but they can't stop me from calling myself an Ironman.

I still wouldn't get a tattoo though because, well I think they look gross.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: IMC rumor [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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BLeP wrote:
If I only did one 'iron distance' race and it was Challenge, I would definitely still call myself an Ironman. WTC can own the brand all they want but they can't stop me from calling myself an Ironman.

I still wouldn't get a tattoo though because, well I think they look gross.

There are plenty of folks on ST that if you have not done a WTC race, then they will state you cannot call yourself an Ironman!!

.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: IMC rumor [solymosi] [ In reply to ]
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Isn't IMMT about 90 minutes from Montreal?

Swim - ( x ) All good ( ) In the shop
Bike - ( x ) All good ( ) In the shop
Run - ( ) All good ( x ) In the shop
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Re: IMC rumor [solymosi] [ In reply to ]
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Montreal and its potholes welcome Ironman!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://fmtricoaching.wordpress.com
3 slots open for 2020 season - PM or email
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Re: IMC rumor [GrahamK] [ In reply to ]
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Yes indeed. So that's a very unlikely rumor. Race IM Montreal over crap roads and potholes, instead of IMMT? Nah...

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3 slots open for 2020 season - PM or email
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Re: IMC rumor [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:

There are plenty of folks on ST that if you have not done a WTC race, then they will state you cannot call yourself an Ironman!!

And they are idiots.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: IMC rumor [mgalluzz] [ In reply to ]
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Why? Seriuos question, I've only done 1 IM race and 3 independant one. the independants were every bit as nice as far as course and organization, but cheaper and smaller. Other than the size and cost of WTC races i had no issue with them.

So Challenge Canada will be about 700 and likely just as big (heck Roth is gigantic). What does Challenge bring to the table that WTC didn't (and I have nothing against Challenge what so ever, I just don't expect them to hand out Miatas instead of medals and have steak and caviar at the finish line.

Styrrell
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Re: IMC rumor [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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exactly, Lake Placid is only another couple hours away from Montreal, and New York is "close" as well(if they still have an race...)
Plus there is the Esprit "Iron Distance" race in September that is fairly well established.
Highly unlikely that there is a Ironman Habs (Montreal) in the near future

Ewan

-------------------------

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Re: IMC rumor [GrahamK] [ In reply to ]
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GrahamK wrote:
Interesting that there's no press release from WTC on this yet?

I think a good rule of thumb in PR is to never make an announcement unless you have good news. I am betting on IMWhistler at the moment given that intrawest owns Tremblant and as far as I know still owns part of Whistler Blackcomb.

===============
#ITMFA
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Re: IMC rumor [ttmonkey] [ In reply to ]
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To you and Captain Canada and other WTC haters..... Just curious here. Why the hate? is it because the WTC is the big kid on the block? You seem to love Challenge races, they aren't exactly a small company. Have you ever done a challenge race to know they are superior to WTC races? If so, I am curious on what makes them superior to a WTC race? Are wave starts really that important to you? Is it the cost? The price between difference is only $34 dollars between this and last year, with several WTC races cheaper than the $675 for next year. All the races in Europe are around $600 as well so... Is it the crowded WTC fields? because according to the Challenge website many of their races have 3000 competitors. Is it the SWAG bags? Are they that much better? Because if that is the main issue, give me $350, I will follow you around for 140.6 miles giving you nutrition, mechanic work on your bike etc.. and you will have $325 to spend on T shirts visors etc.. I just dont get all the hate. WTC sponsored IM races give thousands of dollars to communities they are in through the charity foundations, does Challenge do that? ( i really dont know I am just curious) I expect there will be several snarky answers back to this, but it is a serious question.
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Re: IMC rumor [styrrell] [ In reply to ]
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styrrell wrote:
Why? Seriuos question, I've only done 1 IM race and 3 independant one. the independants were every bit as nice as far as course and organization, but cheaper and smaller. Other than the size and cost of WTC races i had no issue with them.

So Challenge Canada will be about 700 and likely just as big (heck Roth is gigantic). What does Challenge bring to the table that WTC didn't (and I have nothing against Challenge what so ever, I just don't expect them to hand out Miatas instead of medals and have steak and caviar at the finish line.

I hear that the finishers swag is much nicer at Challenge events if anyone cares about that.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: IMC rumor [CaptainCanada] [ In reply to ]
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CaptainCanada wrote:
I think a good rule of thumb in PR is to never make an announcement unless you have good news. I am betting on IMWhistler at the moment given that intrawest owns Tremblant and as far as I know still owns part of Whistler Blackcomb.


That would be my bet as well. I vote for the ride to include the Mt Currie section.

edit: Just plotting it out roughly, Whistler to Pemberton to Squamish, and back to Whistler is ~183kms. (http://www.gmap-pedometer.com?r=5627682)

"The runner-up John Dunbar, a US Navy Seal, led after the second transition and had a chance to win but ran out of water on the marathon course; his support crew resorted to giving him beer instead." -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ironman_Triathlon
Last edited by: otto: Aug 23, 12 14:04
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Re: IMC rumor [ttmonkey] [ In reply to ]
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ttmonkey wrote:
CaptainCanada wrote:
Try "fuckwtc2013" for the code ;)

BOOM there it is!
Registration opens Monday!

Registration opens Monday? What time? 12:00 p.m. PDT??? Anybody got one of the coupon codes and don't want to use? If so, please PM me!

;o)

Carlos
-----------------------------------------------------------
After 3 years, time to go long again. IM Canada 2013
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Re: IMC rumor [RobAllen] [ In reply to ]
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RobAllen wrote:
The basics are:
...
Wave starts


Challenge Roth has a 15 hour time limit right? I assume CP will be the same...or maybe not. In Germany, how specifically do they integrate that with wave starts? Does every competitor get at least 15 hours? Last year at IMC there were 462 people over 15 hours but under 17. I'm fine with the tighter time limit if it turns out that way, but wondering how it is implemented.
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Re: IMC rumor [dcameron999] [ In reply to ]
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I am also interested to see what this means for volunteers. I'm in town to race this weekend. Do you think there is a chance some volunteers will bail? If the reason they were volunteering was to secure a spot? I volunteered last year to sign up for this year. I'm sure I wouldn't have gone back on my commitment, and I'm sure most folks won't. But maybe some?
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Re: IMC rumor [sammie] [ In reply to ]
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sammie wrote:
I am also interested to see what this means for volunteers. I'm in town to race this weekend. Do you think there is a chance some volunteers will bail? If the reason they were volunteering was to secure a spot? I volunteered last year to sign up for this year. I'm sure I wouldn't have gone back on my commitment, and I'm sure most folks won't. But maybe some?

Hopefully nobody will bail. In olden times, most of the volunteers were locals or family members of participants, and there were plenty of them (for those field sizes anyway) - I wonder if the demographic has really shifted significantly to athletes seeking registration priority.
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Re: IMC rumor [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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T shirt and a medal at the WTC race I did. Honstly unless they give out something really nice like a bike jersey it'll likely just sit in a drawer.

Still even if they gave out a beer stein and a jersey, is that enough for people to hate WTC and Love Challenge, plus all the predictions that this will do in WTC.

This reminds me of every thread that pops up when a new powermeter is realsed. We quickly hear comments of, Boy if this is more accurate and has a better interface, plus costs 2-300 dollars it will corner the market. Then the pice is released and its in line with every other PM.

Styrrell
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [jhouckwsu] [ In reply to ]
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jhouckwsu wrote:
To you and Captain Canada and other WTC haters..... Just curious here. Why the hate? is it because the WTC is the big kid on the block? You seem to love Challenge races, they aren't exactly a small company. Have you ever done a challenge race to know they are superior to WTC races? If so, I am curious on what makes them superior to a WTC race? Are wave starts really that important to you? Is it the cost? The price between difference is only $34 dollars between this and last year, with several WTC races cheaper than the $675 for next year. All the races in Europe are around $600 as well so... Is it the crowded WTC fields? because according to the Challenge website many of their races have 3000 competitors. Is it the SWAG bags? Are they that much better? Because if that is the main issue, give me $350, I will follow you around for 140.6 miles giving you nutrition, mechanic work on your bike etc.. and you will have $325 to spend on T shirts visors etc.. I just dont get all the hate. WTC sponsored IM races give thousands of dollars to communities they are in through the charity foundations, does Challenge do that? ( i really dont know I am just curious) I expect there will be several snarky answers back to this, but it is a serious question.

Wait, I am a WTC hater? How so? I do a couple of their races every year. I have spent thousands of dollars on them. If I have some criticisms that does not make me a hater, that makes me a consumer. I want them to be better.. Competition is healthy, I welcome independent races.

===============
#ITMFA
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Re: IMC rumor [otto] [ In reply to ]
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otto wrote:
CaptainCanada wrote:
I think a good rule of thumb in PR is to never make an announcement unless you have good news. I am betting on IMWhistler at the moment given that intrawest owns Tremblant and as far as I know still owns part of Whistler Blackcomb.


That would be my bet as well. I vote for the ride to include the Mt Currie section.

Point-to-point-to-point? There's absolutely no way in hell I'd want to descent Mt Currie Southbound anywhere near most IM athletes...


<If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough>
Get Fitter!
Proud member of the Smartasscrew, MONSTER CLUB
Get your FIX today?
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Re: IMC rumor [CaptainCanada] [ In reply to ]
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i know its a minor point, but Intrawest got totally out of Whistler a few years ago. i just checked their site as well and they don't mention Whistler or Blackcomb.

carry on!

BB
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Re: IMC rumor [Sandbagging] [ In reply to ]
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Did you use the fuckwtc2013 code to sign up for Vegas ??
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Re: IMC rumor [Khai] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Khai wrote:
Point-to-point-to-point? There's absolutely no way in hell I'd want to descent Mt Currie Southbound anywhere near most IM athletes...

Come on, Khai, its not that bad. http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=5627655

Just because we were dumb enough to ride up it one year.

"The runner-up John Dunbar, a US Navy Seal, led after the second transition and had a chance to win but ran out of water on the marathon course; his support crew resorted to giving him beer instead." -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ironman_Triathlon
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Re: IMC rumor [styrrell] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
To be honest, the quality of the events WTC puts on is probably the best out there, but I'm talking big picture here.

Ironman is (well maybe now, "used to be") the only full distance race series to span the globe. There were other small players (Rev 3, Challenge, etc) but they were only in certain areas, not worldwide. Now you see Challenge coming to North America, Rev 3 has a race in Costa Rica, etc. If the trend continues, there will be races from different series all over the world.

I would say the only leg up that WTC now has on the competition is the name "Ironman" and the rights to Kona. We just saw Pentincton decide to switch over from WTC (obviously not sure, just speculating here). But what's to stop the town of Kona from doing the same thing? And what's to stop Challenge and Rev 3 getting together and putting on a championship Ironman race of their own? Sure, right away it wouldn't mean much, but over time I'm sure it would build momentum. If this happens, the only leg up that WTC has is the name "Ironman" and I think people are finding (especially with today's announcement) that the name means less and less every day. More competition in the industry is good for everybody, except maybe WTC.
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Re: IMC rumor [Khai] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
So true, Khai. So true.


Peter Solymosi
The Tri Bike Fit Studio
Vernon, BC
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Re: IMC rumor [jhouckwsu] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hahaha! No, I don't think they would have sent me that code. I have nothing against WTC. Did/will do many of their races, just really want to race in Penticton next year.

Carlos
-----------------------------------------------------------
After 3 years, time to go long again. IM Canada 2013
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Re: IMC rumor [CaptainCanada] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
My bad I guess this was a term of endearment. Don't get me wrong everyone is entitled to their opinion, I am just curious on what I missed that makes people hate the WTC.




CaptainCanada

Aug 23, 12 9:41

Post #155 of 207 (1116 views)
Re: IMC rumor [dcameron999] [In reply to]Quote | Reply

Try "fuckwtc2013" for the code ;)
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Re: IMC rumor [Sandbagging] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
have a good race in all of em...
Last edited by: jhouckwsu: Aug 23, 12 11:15
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Re: IMC rumor [jhouckwsu] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Now it is official, challenge Penticton coming.

http://www.trimes.org/...tting-back-his-race/
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Re: IMC rumor [buddhabelly] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I think Intrawest was in receivership several years back... they may have lost Whistler in the process.


- Mike | @mikeapted
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Re: IMC rumor [skip] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
skip wrote:
RobAllen wrote:
The basics are:
...
Wave starts



Challenge Roth has a 15 hour time limit right? I assume CP will be the same...or maybe not. In Germany, how specifically do they integrate that with wave starts? Does every competitor get at least 15 hours? Last year at IMC there were 462 people over 15 hours but under 17. I'm fine with the tighter time limit if it turns out that way, but wondering how it is implemented.


If memory serves, in 2009 I was in the second AG wave leaving at 7:06. End of the race was at 10:30pm. So 15 hours was probably from the last wave start. There is a lengthy pause and then the relays go in waves - they have 13.5 hours. I think the finishing time has to do with noise rather than a European limit. Frankfurt has come down twice form the 17 hour limit because of noise complaints.

------------------------
Cornwall (Ontario) Triathlon
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [jhouckwsu] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jhouckwsu wrote:
I just dont get all the hate. WTC sponsored IM races give thousands of dollars to communities they are in through the charity foundations, does Challenge do that? ( i really dont know I am just curious) I expect there will be several snarky answers back to this, but it is a serious question.

Actually WTC community fund program is supported by the participants who pay double the price for a community fund spot. Half of that money is for the race fee and the other half for the WTC community donation. WTC itself does make a community donation.

The big difference here is the city of Penticton is taking ownership of the race. Challenge is a hired gun to help promote and execute the race. There is a set fee for that. This will be partially offset by any monies they had to pay WTC to host the race in Penticton. Any profits above that (removing other race expenses) are for the city. If all goes well, they will make the race profit instead of the WTC.

------------------------
Cornwall (Ontario) Triathlon
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Re: IMC rumor [Kiwi03] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Now it is official, challenge Penticton coming.

http://www.trimes.org/...tting-back-his-race/


I know it seems like this forum is the be all to end all, but there is a front page for this site, this story has been up for awhile now;


http://www.slowtwitch.com/News/Challenge_Penticton_announced_3011.html
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Re: IMC rumor [CaptainCanada] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
CaptainCanada wrote:
Alex M wrote:
+1. Is this a red flag for WTC? Will this change their focus in any way? Challenge touts "for the athletes." I don't know what this means.


It honestly should be a huge red flag. Venerable races like IMC switching over will be the tip of the iceberg. Companies like Challenge and Rev will swoop in and capitalize on all the missteps that WTC has had over the past few years.

I've been wondering about Rev3 Williamburg and IM Raleigh 70.3 for a while now. It sounds to me like IM was going after something in the area and were turned down by Williamsburg, VA. A few months later, IM Raleigh 70.3 was announced.

Janyne
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Re: IMC rumor [styrrell] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
styrrell wrote:
Why? Seriuos question, I've only done 1 IM race and 3 independant one. the independants were every bit as nice as far as course and organization, but cheaper and smaller. Other than the size and cost of WTC races i had no issue with them.

So Challenge Canada will be about 700 and likely just as big (heck Roth is gigantic). What does Challenge bring to the table that WTC didn't (and I have nothing against Challenge what so ever, I just don't expect them to hand out Miatas instead of medals and have steak and caviar at the finish line.

I just did Challenge Copenhagen. I've done 3 WTC IMs. I love them both ... not a hater at all. Here are some of the things on the top of my head that Challenge does better

1. More timing matts, so you get more splits

2. Wave start, so less fighting involved

3. Their free phone tracking apps is very good. If your family is following you, they will be able to track you a lot better than WTC races.

4. more transition support. They have free pumps laying around all over the place in transition. They offer free mechanic support. I had my derellieur adjusted for free the day before. People had other services provided for free in transition also.

5. Redbull at every single aid station :)


__________________________________________________________________________
My marathon PR is "under three, high twos. I had a two hour and fifty-something."
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Re: IMC rumor [jhouckwsu] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jhouckwsu wrote:
My bad I guess this was a term of endearment. Don't get me wrong everyone is entitled to their opinion, I am just curious on what I missed that makes people hate the WTC.



This is an emotional thread and you are bringing up facts?? :) At the end of the day it will be the same for many of us. WTC made so many mistakes on the way they interact with the athletes and are somewhat paying for it now. Some is just the way the ironman business is.

Canada just became the playground of some heavyweight competition, curious to hear of the new location for WTC in Canada. I'll go with Whistler as well as it just fit their new business model and make a lot of sense. But who knows.




Try "fuckwtc2013" for the code ;)
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [zoom] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
Their free phone tracking apps is very good. If your family is following you, they will be able to track you a lot better than WTC races.

Well I wonder if WTC has plans for their own. The Pele app that works quite well was pulled from the App Store awhile back...perhaps it was bought?
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Re: IMC rumor [mgalluzz] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
mgalluzz wrote:
To be honest, the quality of the events WTC puts on is probably the best out there, but I'm talking big picture here.

Frankly, Challenge (at least Roth) puts on a better race. By far in my opinion.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://fmtricoaching.wordpress.com
3 slots open for 2020 season - PM or email
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Re: IMC rumor [zoom] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
zoom wrote:

5. Redbull at every single aid station :)

that's all i care about.



---------------------------------------
Fruit snacks are for winners
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Re: IMC rumor [Uncle Phil] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Here is something from WTC in response to this:

http://www.slowtwitch.com/..._Penticton_3013.html
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Re: IMC rumor [Herbert] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
As I said in another thread....This could get interesting!

David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [david] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Interesting that during press conference they said it was be cheaper - yet the press release now shows it's basically same price ($675).


-
My tiny little slice of the internets: dcrainmaker.com
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [RobAllen] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
RobAllen wrote:
skip wrote:
RobAllen wrote:
The basics are:
...
Wave starts



Challenge Roth has a 15 hour time limit right? I assume CP will be the same...or maybe not. In Germany, how specifically do they integrate that with wave starts? Does every competitor get at least 15 hours? Last year at IMC there were 462 people over 15 hours but under 17. I'm fine with the tighter time limit if it turns out that way, but wondering how it is implemented.



If memory serves, in 2009 I was in the second AG wave leaving at 7:06. End of the race was at 10:30pm. So 15 hours was probably from the last wave start. There is a lengthy pause and then the relays go in waves - they have 13.5 hours. I think the finishing time has to do with noise rather than a European limit. Frankfurt has come down twice form the 17 hour limit because of noise complaints.

I looked at the Roth results from 2011 and 2012 - in both cases there were a handful of finishers listed over 15 hours (6 last year, 15 the year before, the last two were both M70, at 15:36 and 16:23). The number of finishers really drops off after 13 and especially 14 hours when compared to any of the north american races. Anyway...it will be interesting to see what the time limit is. If they leave it at 17, then it will be effectively even higher than that for any earlier waves, as it's not like they're going to pull people off the course when there are others still running behind them.
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [Herbert] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Herbert wrote:
Here is something from WTC in response to this:

http://www.slowtwitch.com/..._Penticton_3013.html

Wow.

WTC would do their reputation well to stay a long way away from the actions in that article. Giving back the rights to Fraser, thereby "winning back" IMC would be extremely foolhardy. Penticton would make it very hard on them.

===============
#ITMFA
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [CaptainCanada] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
CaptainCanada wrote:
Herbert wrote:
Here is something from WTC in response to this:

http://www.slowtwitch.com/..._Penticton_3013.html


Wow.

WTC would do their reputation well to stay a long way away from the actions in that article. Giving back the rights to Fraser, thereby "winning back" IMC would be extremely foolhardy. Penticton would make it very hard on them.

I am in no way familiar of the dealings here, but from a far I would say, it is pretty arrogant to even think someone you bought all the properties from would in 90 days, want one of those properties given back. But I always say, follow the $$. Nothing like selling something, then getting paid again to take it back ('cause nothing is free).

Great press for WTC the past 2 weeks. ouch.

@rhyspencer
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [rhys] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Will the Challenge team 'shorten' the course?
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Re: IMC rumor [Tri Bread] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Tri Bread,

the press conference was very clear that the course will remain the same and the course is in fact, one the best parts of the race itself.

Edit addition: Challenge proof point #1 of race improvements is comparing 2012 to 2013 on race fees and pro pay purse. 2012 $650 entry before taxes (13% for me in Ontario) and pro prize purse of $25,000USD

"With an opening registration fee of CA$675 including taxes, Challenge Penticton will offer value to athletes of all abilities and backgrounds with an enhanced experience and the race field will be restructured to include wave starts, which will allow the addition of relay teams for the first time in Penticton. In addition, professional triathletes will benefit from a 50,000 Euro (CA$61,500) prize purse paying down to 10th place."

@rhyspencer
Last edited by: rhys: Aug 23, 12 13:41
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [Herbert] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Herbert wrote:
Here is something from WTC in response to this:

http://www.slowtwitch.com/..._Penticton_3013.html

Grab the popcorn kids, this is gonna get ugly!
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [rhys] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I should have used pink font for the question about the race distance, althoughfor some reason Roth seems to be generally accepted as being a 'short' course.

This race is still on the bucket list.
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Re: IMC rumor [CaptainCanada] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I doubt Penticon could or would do much. Its not that big of a place and once you get involved in multi million dollar deals you, do everything you legally can, then leave it at that.

Everyone here seems to think Fraser is a stand up guy, so maybe he'll just turn down the giveback of the race, then this all goes away.

Styrrell
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [Hot Tamales] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Here I was all primed to pull the trigger on Canada; now what?
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [CaptainCanada] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
CaptainCanada wrote:
Herbert wrote:
Here is something from WTC in response to this:

http://www.slowtwitch.com/..._Penticton_3013.html


Wow.

WTC would do their reputation well to stay a long way away from the actions in that article. Giving back the rights to Fraser, thereby "winning back" IMC would be extremely foolhardy. Penticton would make it very hard on them.

Penticton City Council: "Sure, you can have your race back, but we're giving you Thanksgiving weekend to run it. Good luck! I hear Yellow Lake is lovely that time of year."

"The runner-up John Dunbar, a US Navy Seal, led after the second transition and had a chance to win but ran out of water on the marathon course; his support crew resorted to giving him beer instead." -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ironman_Triathlon
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [otto] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Graham Fraser is out with Ironman
Wednesday, 01 August 2012 02:00 DAVID CROMPTON

Ironman Canada provides a huge economic spinoff for the community and special events such as this press conference with former champ Jordan Rapp (extreme left) but what does the future hold for Penticton?

Graham Fraser confirmed he will no longer be affiliated with the Subaru Ironman Canada Triathlon, while his letter to city council this week also re-affirmed his commitment to the Penticton Vees Junior-A Hockey Club.
Fraser, who purchased the Penticton race in 1996, had to relinquish his licence to IC as part of an agreement with the World Triathlon Corporation, a for-profit organization that bought Fraser's North American Sports races in 2009.
"Graham negotiated to keep Ironman Canada a few years longer than his other races," said Coun. Judy Sentes.
Fraser discussed his imminent departure from IC with Sentes and the city's chief administrative officer Annette Antoniak in recent weeks, Sentes said.
"We only formally received confirmation from Graham this week," said Sentes. "It wasn't a voluntary departure on his part."
Ironman Canada Race Society president Frank Darin, a close friend of Fraser who serves as president and a minority owner of the Vees, agreed with the assessment.
"He wasn't ready to give it up," said Darin, adding Fraser is "100 per cent behind the Vees" as they embark on defending their national championship.
Council will be discussing the Ironman situation at an in-camera meeting on Tuesday and is expected to make an announcement later in the week.
Antoniak said she will be compiling a full report ready for members of council to consider. A key question is how Fraser's departure will impact the five-year contract the city has with Fraser to keep the race in Penticton.
The city is currently paying an annual 'marketing' fee to keep the race in Penticton. This year's fee is $60,000 and the fee tops out at $75,000 in the final year of the deal in 2014.
"We're at a crossroads, but at a good crossroads," said Mayor Dan Ashton. "This allows council the option to look at the race and the contract in its entirety."
When the deal with Fraser was originally struck, the ICRS took on the task of raising the marketing fee through the sale of IronClub memberships. However, there will not be an IronClub this year, which would appear to leave the city on the hook for the marketing fee.
Sentes said it's possible an IronClub or something similar could be re-launched in the near future.
"We've worked well with the society and the city has always been there as a backstop," Ashton said. "We'll certainly be discussing all the issues … we're very fiscally oriented and responsible to the taxpayers of Penticton."
Ashton said the city will make sure it abides by the terms of the contract.
"The criteria also had to be matched by Ironman," said Ashton.
Sentes said the change in strategy for the WTC started when Providence Equity Partners purchased it from Dr. James P. Gillis in 2008 and bought the NA Sports races a year later.
"We're waiting for more information and options on what happens from here, when this year's race is over," said Sentes.
Sentes said she doesn't believe the WTC has plans to move the race.
"They haven't moved any of the other races in North America," said Sentes. "The strategy has been aimed more at expanding its number of races. There was a time when this race and Hawaii were the only two Ironmans in North American"
Ashton said the city does have a strong interest in negotiating with WTC to ensure the long-term future of IC in Penticton.
"It's a huge benefit to the entire region and brings worldwide attention to Penticton and the Okanagan-Similkameen," said Ashton. "Tourism isn't what it once was. This is a very important event for us right at the start of our shoulder season for tourism."
Sentes said nobody wants to see the "transition in the Ironman world" deter from the 30th anniversary IC race on Sunday, Aug. 26.
Sentes said Fraser is "passionate and committed" to the community and wants to make this year's event the best it can possibly be.
"Graham has a residence here, he owns the hockey team and he comes here quite frequently," said Sentes. "He wants to leave a legacy to the city from this year's race."
She noted Fraser has always put an emphasis on giving back to the city, pointing to the rubberized track at the King's Park indoor facility that was a legacy from the 25th anniversary race. Sentes also alluded to the fact he created the Ironman Canada Community Fund, which the ICRS had "governance" of.
In assessing the Ironman in general, Sentes said there is still a strong market for it, noting people are now getting involved at a much younger age thanks to the success of grassroots events such as Penticton's own Boston Pizza Junior Triathlon.
"At one time, the race would sell out in an hour; last year it was seven hours," said Sentes. "Despite the number of races, it keeps growing in popularity."
Still, an event that was promoted as a full-week festival has contracted into something considerably smaller in Penticton. Sentes said there are now more than 50 Ironmans in the world, which has changed the dynamics of the event considerably.
"As the WTC grows the opportunities, people have more choices," said Sentes. "With the tradition, popularity and infrastructure of this race, we will always draw well.
"(But) expanding (Ironman Canada) as a festival does have some challenges."
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [CaptainCanada] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
CaptainCanada wrote:
Herbert wrote:
Here is something from WTC in response to this:

http://www.slowtwitch.com/..._Penticton_3013.html


Wow.

WTC would do their reputation well to stay a long way away from the actions in that article. Giving back the rights to Fraser, thereby "winning back" IMC would be extremely foolhardy. Penticton would make it very hard on them.
_______

What a mess !! I was planning on going back to Penticton next year .... but I'll definitely stay out of this mess .... who knows what may happen and I'm sure not putting my dollars into it.
I decided not to do the 30th anniversary because of the numbers that would be there .... what a pit for those there for the race to be caught in the middle of this. What a shame.

Dave
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [styrrell] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
styrrell wrote:
I doubt Penticon could or would do much. Its not that big of a place and once you get involved in multi million dollar deals you, do everything you legally can, then leave it at that.

Everyone here seems to think Fraser is a stand up guy, so maybe he'll just turn down the giveback of the race, then this all goes away.


Yeah, this is a sticky situation for all involved. It seems the community wants to do more with their race but they are limited by the WTC format and control. They also feel that Graham is "their local guy" and if he can't run it and represent them to the big corporation then they will align with anothe corporation that will give them more autonomy. WTC is basically stuck in a bind. In this power play scenario, WTC kind of needs Penticton more than Penticton needs WTC, which is the opposite of other communities where the community needs WTC more than WTC needs then....for example if the town of Tremblant did an Ironman and initially aligned with Challenge there is no way on this earth they'd have the smashing success they did being aligned with WTC. Challenge has no brand appeal in North America. However Penticton on its own has brand appeal to athlete through years of building their event.

Anyway at this point from the outside it appears there no way WTC can win and really get back into Penticton. Messick must be totally fried...the guy was at IMNYC, had to deal with the post event registration shut down/suspension, went back to Tampa, flew up to Tremblant, did an 11:40 Ironman, was on a flight the next morning at 5 am back to Tampa, then flies up to Penticton to deal with this fire. I would not have liked to spend the last 14 days in his shoes. Wow. Then again, that's what CEOs do at other corporations (minus cramming in an Ironman).
Last edited by: devashish_paul: Aug 23, 12 15:07
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Re: IMC rumor [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
FYI - Just spoke to the a Challenge CEO and the volunteer line up will be honored at registration.

ItsAGoodLifeIfYouTriIt
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Re: IMC rumor [Mr X] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Is there going to be a open public sign up?
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Re: IMC rumor [vguy2001] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Looks like it could be a busy race, 3000 single registrans and 500 relay teams.

http://triathlon.competitor.com/...enge-penticton_60105
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Re: IMC rumor [vguy2001] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
yes

vguy2001 wrote:
Is there going to be a open public sign up?

ItsAGoodLifeIfYouTriIt
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Re: IMC rumor [Mr X] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
This is why Slowtwitch rules. I'm in Penticton and I head to Slowtwitch for info.

******************
"it's also a personal choice to remain ignorant" - Slowman
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Re: IMC rumor [Mr X] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
There will be a discount to $599 for those ONSITE who sign up Monday. I was told this by the City's rep at the SS Sicamous display.
Sarge

******************
"it's also a personal choice to remain ignorant" - Slowman
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [sgttriathlon] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
this could be the special 'door prize' they told me about at the SS Sicamous...if not, there will be a door prize of some sorts.

sgttriathlon wrote:
There will be a discount to $599 for those ONSITE who sign up Monday. I was told this by the City's rep at the SS Sicamous display.
Sarge

ItsAGoodLifeIfYouTriIt
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [sgttriathlon] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
sgttriathlon wrote:
There will be a discount to $599 for those ONSITE who sign up Monday. I was told this by the City's rep at the SS Sicamous display.
Sarge


This is correct. The registration for the Challenge Penticton Race will be at the SOEC.
Directions to the SOEC can be found here....

http://www.soec.ca/...ions/directions.html
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [rhys] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
rhys wrote:
Tri Bread,


the press conference was very clear that the course will remain the same and the course is in fact, one the best parts of the race itself.

Edit addition: Challenge proof point #1 of race improvements is comparing 2012 to 2013 on race fees and pro pay purse. 2012 $650 entry before taxes (13% for me in Ontario) and pro prize purse of $25,000USD

"With an opening registration fee of CA$675 including taxes, Challenge Penticton will offer value to athletes of all abilities and backgrounds with an enhanced experience and the race field will be restructured to include wave starts, which will allow the addition of relay teams for the first time in Penticton. In addition, professional triathletes will benefit from a 50,000 Euro (CA$61,500) prize purse paying down to 10th place."


$675 is not a value (for me at least). Just as I said that $700 is not a value for IMMT.
Maybe I am just getting old and want prices back to where they were when I started. ;)



https://www.miles4matt.run/
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [Mr X] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
If the "argument" with WTC is not resolved by Monday, will they still proceed with registration? They probably don't want to get into a situation where they have to cancel registration halfway and refund money to those already registered ...
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [CaptainCanada] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I'm guessing the voice of Ironman Canada, Steve King will become the voice of Challange Penticton...which will be like coming home again to race a great event. Can't wait to sign up.
Last edited by: Reparto Corse: Aug 23, 12 17:10
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [Old_Rambler] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Old_Rambler wrote:
If the "argument" with WTC is not resolved by Monday, will they still proceed with registration? They probably don't want to get into a situation where they have to cancel registration halfway and refund money to those already registered ...

Yes, the registration at the SOEC will begin at 9 am Monday morning. There will also be a special line for the volunteers.
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [Pentictonite] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
What is the signup time?
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [M~] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
$700+tax vs. $675 including tax is a difference of $116 if like me you live in Ontario.

But I hear you. $675 all in is still a lot of money.

@rhyspencer
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [mopey] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
mopey wrote:
What is the signup time?

It will start at 9am.
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [Pentictonite] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Pentictonite wrote:
Old_Rambler wrote:
If the "argument" with WTC is not resolved by Monday, will they still proceed with registration? They probably don't want to get into a situation where they have to cancel registration halfway and refund money to those already registered ...

Yes, the registration at the SOEC will begin at 9 am Monday morning. There will also be a special line for the volunteers.

Has anyone seen info about online registration? The CP page has an inactive link. When does it go live?
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [GreatScott] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
GreatScott wrote:

Has anyone seen info about online registration? The CP page has an inactive link. When does it go live?

The online registration will go live on Tuesday.
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I wonder if Messick drove up the road to Kelowna to see if they wanted to host the IMC race next year. I don't doubt they will try to launch a race within a week or 2 of the Challenge race date. Same thing they did to try and kill The Great Floridian and moving IM Germany down the road from Roth


I also wonder if Rev3 tried to get in on the action
Last edited by: Jackb: Aug 23, 12 17:57
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Re: IMC rumor [Jackb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
What about Vancouver Island? Great destination spot, decent airport, triathlete hotspot.
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Re: IMC rumor [Tri Bread] [ In reply to ]
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I think they would likely look at Whistler. It has comparable infrastructure as IMMT being a big ski hill resort area
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Re: IMC rumor [Pentictonite] [ In reply to ]
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So I also wonder if Challenge will hire Fraser the day after the race on Monday to be the race director.....

That would be interesting as WTC forced NA sports to sell all the events to them, that would be good payback
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Re: IMC rumor [Jackb] [ In reply to ]
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Ironman Calgary? Full distance? Discuss.... ;-) Good to have a western regional race - international airport - loads of room??? Some great roads to ride?....Just don't know about the swim?....

_____________________________________________
"It's a line you have to cross to understand."
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Re: IMC rumor [Jackb] [ In reply to ]
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Jackb wrote:
So I also wonder if Challenge will hire Fraser the day after the race on Monday to be the race director.....

That would be interesting as WTC forced NA sports to sell all the events to them, that would be good payback

I suspect Graham will be focusing his energies on the latest venture, Centurion Cycling ...

http://centurioncycling.com/
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Re: IMC rumor [Pentictonite] [ In reply to ]
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Is there a remote chance for WTC to prevent Challenge from taken over and for the race to go on next year under the challenge label?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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3 slots open for 2020 season - PM or email
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Re: IMC rumor [GreatScott] [ In reply to ]
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What is the link for online sign up?
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Re: IMC rumor [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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Francois wrote:
Is there a remote chance for WTC to prevent Challenge from taken over and for the race to go on next year under the challenge label?

That would depend on what lawyer you ask and I am happy to discuss this further however based on the legal advice I am aware of, from my perspective the Challenge Penticton Race will occur and I suspect it will be a best ever.

There is a lot of excitement locally to put on a race that focuses more on the athletes and the overall race experience. It is also important that we not forget about this year’s race, and given that it is the 30th anniversary race I am hopeful that is also a great one for all involved.
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Re: IMC rumor [Pentictonite] [ In reply to ]
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I sure hope it does. Roth in Penticton sounds like a perfect way to spend a few days in Canada at the end of August :-)

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3 slots open for 2020 season - PM or email
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Re: IMC rumor [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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Francois wrote:
I sure hope it does. Roth in Penticton sounds like a perfect way to spend a few days in Canada at the end of August :-)


We would love to have you and hope you can make it to the first ever Challenge Penticton Race.
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Re: IMC rumor [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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Just a thought. Chrissie book signing in Toronto on 22nd. Book signing in Oregon on 28th. What's in the middle?

She's a big fan of Challenge events. Vocal supporter of Challenge Roth. Peter Reid namedropping Chrissie a few times in his article on ST homepage.

Will Chrissie be in Penticton this weekend? As PR?

One things for sure ... the atmosphere in Penticton will be dialled to eleven this weekend. I am heading down there tomorrow. Can not wait.

https://www.pbandjcoaching.com
https://www.thisbigroadtrip.com
Last edited by: Jaymz: Aug 23, 12 20:09
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Re: IMC rumor [Pentictonite] [ In reply to ]
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I wish that they would have included a half iron as well but that might be asking a lot. Ironman days are over but half days could be in the future. That being said, I would come up to volunteer just to check out the owners and how they are doing things.

AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

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Re: IMC rumor [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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BMANX wrote:
I wish that they would have included a half iron as well but that might be asking a lot. Ironman days are over but half days could be in the future. That being said, I would come up to volunteer just to check out the owners and how they are doing things.


Please do come up next year to volunteer – as a fellow volunteer it is an awesome experience. There will also be a volunteer sign up specifically for volunteers should you choose to race afterwards (there will be this year as well).

Thanks for the feedback on a half distance course offering, I will ensure that it is passed on to Challenge Penticton. Feedback is very important for this race to all involved and any other suggestions are very much welcome
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Re: IMC rumor [Pentictonite] [ In reply to ]
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I have volunteered 6 times and raced 2 at Ironman Canada. Always loved wetsuit stripping and transition. Will not make it up this year but I would love to see how things pan out next year with new organization. What I would love to see is more than just a half iron or even an olympic distance race go on but running races, kids running race and a way to invite more to enjoy the experience.

Please, please tell me that Steve King has been contacted to do the announcing for next year. This would be a huge step forward in the right direction as he is the true voice of triathlon in Penticton, in BC and in Canada as far as I am concerned. His knowledge is second to none.

AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

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Re: IMC rumor [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the feedback Bmanx! - much appreciated and keep it coming....
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Re: IMC rumor [jar70] [ In reply to ]
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IM Calgary

Swim in Ghost Lake ... Ride from there to Bragg, out and back on hwy 60, then down the back way to Millarville across 549 and up the hills to 37th or Road to Nepal and to South Glenmore. Run down to Fish Creek by Canyon Meadows, across the park to 37th, up to the reservoir and around. Finish on 90th in Oakridge. Voila!
Last edited by: spirogeek: Aug 23, 12 20:47
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Re: IMC rumor [vguy2001] [ In reply to ]
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Re: IMC rumor [GreatScott] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks, I'll be hovering over the keyboard Tuesday
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Re: IMC rumor [spirogeek] [ In reply to ]
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spirogeek wrote:
IM Calgary

Swim in Ghost Lake ... Ride from there to Bragg, out and back on hwy 60, then down the back way to Millarville across 549 and up the hills to 37th or Road to Nepal and to South Glenmore. Run down to Fish Creek by Canyon Meadows, across the park to 37th, up to the reservoir and around. Finish on 90th in Oakridge. Voila!

Oh friggin lovely, Road to Nepal after cycling 150 Km or so. THAT would be something to look forward to. Plus, that 10% climb heading out to Forget me not would space out folks more.

BC Don
Pain is temporary, not giving it your all lasts all Winter.
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Re: IMC rumor [BCDon] [ In reply to ]
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If it was easy it would be called football
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Re: IMC rumor [Writerguy] [ In reply to ]
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I was going to go hard on Sunday and go for a great time... Now I am thinking of 16:59 and be the last ironman in penticton!
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Re: IMC rumor [sgttriathlon] [ In reply to ]
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sgttriathlon wrote:
This is why Slowtwitch rules. I'm in Penticton and I head to Slowtwitch for info.

---

yes but that doesn't mean you are getting the whole story..


--
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Re: IMC rumor [rhayden] [ In reply to ]
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rhayden wrote:
I was going to go hard on Sunday and go for a great time... Now I am thinking of 16:59 and be the last ironman in penticton!
--
You are not the only one..a few people have mentioned this idea today.

--
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Re: IMC rumor [Pentictonite] [ In reply to ]
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Pentictonite wrote:
Francois wrote:
Is there a remote chance for WTC to prevent Challenge from taken over and for the race to go on next year under the challenge label?


That would depend on what lawyer you ask and I am happy to discuss this further however based on the legal advice I am aware of, from my perspective the Challenge Penticton Race will occur and I suspect it will be a best ever.

There is a lot of excitement locally to put on a race that focuses more on the athletes and the overall race experience. It is also important that we not forget about this year’s race, and given that it is the 30th anniversary race I am hopeful that is also a great one for all involved.
==

I would suggest that if you are going to post here on ST and talk as if you are somehow in the "inner circle" of what is going on then you should no longer post anonymously..Full disclosure is the right way to go at the moment.

==
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Re: IMC rumor [Ultra-tri-guy] [ In reply to ]
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Agree. Who are you "Pentictonite"?
I've lived in Penticton since 2006. My first IM was IMC 1990. My last one was IMC 2007. I grew tired of the "same old same old" and turned to bike racing as a nice change. I've seen a fair amount of negativity over the last 5 years and a general decline in enthusiasm. Maybe this was the fault of WTC, I'm not sure.
I can say I'm looking forward to the change. I'm also looking forward to hearing "You are an Ironman!" at the finish line for the last time (I grew REALLY tired of that.)
Not everyone likes change but I hope the people of this city will embrace it so I hope our councel does a good job convincing us (selling it to the locals) that it was the right decision.
Deeper pro fields and maybe bigger AG fields are a plus. The price could be cheaper if it's truly "for the athletes". Glad to hear its the same course though.
Anyways, Challenge puts on quality events so I'm sure they won't f-it up. Looking forward to being a part of it. I'm volunteering at the aid station at the bottom of Richter pass on Sunday, handing out bottles/food. Maybe I'll be there next year too.
Marty
Penticton.
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Re: IMC rumor [martman] [ In reply to ]
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martman wrote:
Agree. Who are you "Pentictonite"?
I've lived in Penticton since 2006. My first IM was IMC 1990. My last one was IMC 2007. I grew tired of the "same old same old" and turned to bike racing as a nice change. I've seen a fair amount of negativity over the last 5 years and a general decline in enthusiasm. Maybe this was the fault of WTC, I'm not sure.
I can say I'm looking forward to the change. I'm also looking forward to hearing "You are an Ironman!" at the finish line for the last time (I grew REALLY tired of that.)
Not everyone likes change but I hope the people of this city will embrace it so I hope our councel does a good job convincing us (selling it to the locals) that it was the right decision.
Deeper pro fields and maybe bigger AG fields are a plus. The price could be cheaper if it's truly "for the athletes". Glad to hear its the same course though.
Anyways, Challenge puts on quality events so I'm sure they won't f-it up. Looking forward to being a part of it. I'm volunteering at the aid station at the bottom of Richter pass on Sunday, handing out bottles/food. Maybe I'll be there next year too.
Marty
Penticton.

Challenge doesn't have its own phrase? "You have beaten the CHALLENGE?" You have met the CHALLENGE?" "Your IRON WILL has bested the CHALLENGE" <-- oooh, that one's a good one
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Re: IMC rumor [cowardlydragon] [ In reply to ]
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Oh god I hope not.
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Re: IMC rumor [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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If they can hand back to Fraser, then it becomes tricky... Given the WTC is all about money, Fraser should say... "Sure... I'll run the race for one more year... but I need a $5 Million consulting fee"



Outside of Fraser accepting the race back, the WTC is SOL. Now if the shoe was on the other foot... the WTC would not even hand Fraser a jar of Vasaline
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Re: IMC rumor [Maui5150] [ In reply to ]
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Maui5150 wrote:
If they can hand back to Fraser, then it becomes tricky... Given the WTC is all about money, Fraser should say... "Sure... I'll run the race for one more year... but I need a $5 Million consulting fee"



Outside of Fraser accepting the race back, the WTC is SOL. Now if the shoe was on the other foot... the WTC would not even hand Fraser a jar of Vasaline

I just can't imagine that's possible. I'd be pretty shocked if the 30-day window for curing the breach didn't start until Graham told the council he sold the race. Try this hypothetical: Graham never informs the council about the sale. WTC takes over the race and puts it on in 2012. Quality suffers a bit. WTC puts it on again in 2013. Race quality is down some more. Council turns to Graham with a "WTF?" Graham responds, "Oh yeah, I sold the race to WTC 2 years ago. But since you know now, I'll take it back from them. We're good, right?" The principle WTC is trying to claim is the same: the window for curing the breach doesn't start until the other party is aware or informed of the breach. The city is getting shafted if that interpretation is possible.

On a different note, I wonder if WTC can or will go after Graham over this. Graham knew or should have known about the transfer approval clause with the city. Seems clear he sold the race to WTC without getting that approval.
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Re: IMC rumor [rhayden] [ In reply to ]
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rhayden wrote:
I was going to go hard on Sunday and go for a great time... Now I am thinking of 16:59 and be the last ironman in penticton!

I was out doing my tuneup ride yesterday and had the same thought. I went so far as to think about the legalities of stepping off the course during the run to wait out the clock and where I'd do it. Starbucks on Main would be a good spot. Grab a latte and sit outside and cheer on others for awhile.

------------------------------
"Unless you have a ... GF who might put out that night and that night only ... skip it and race." - AndyPants 3-15-2007
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Re: IMC rumor [Maui5150] [ In reply to ]
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So why did WTC take the race from Fraser in the first place this spring?

Is it not WTC fault for not reading the contract Fraser had with Penticton about transferring the race to a third party?
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Re: IMC rumor [martman] [ In reply to ]
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martman wrote:
I'm also looking forward to hearing "You are an Ironman!" at the finish line for the last time (I grew REALLY tired of that.)

x2
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Re: IMC rumor [Jackb] [ In reply to ]
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Oh. I agree with you.

I think the WTC was in some was shafting Fraser... From my reading of the original releases, his moving on was really not "his decision"

I also agree that the WTC took a serious misstep and either did not understand the contract, or did not think they were at risk (i.e. the only game in town)

I would also not be surprised if Fraser did not get Felix involved and basically placed a call and said the race could be swooped out if a better deal was made to the Council and there was an out in the contract.

Interesting point on the breech and when it occured. I could see both sides of the argument, so I could see in some ways were it is done, and all issues are moot, I also could see that there potentially could be a remedy of the breech would Fraser get the race back, but that I think is a long shot even if it happened, and if it did, I would have a little scheudenfreud having the WTC's feet held to the fire.

Now I don't know if the WTC really forced Fraser out or not, but if that is what happened, very ironic the end results
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Re: IMC rumor [FatteLatte] [ In reply to ]
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STEVE KING STEVE KING STEVE KING. He at least did research on most of the racers and would try to say something unique at the finish. I was so happy that I did not get the "You are an Ironman" when I crossed the line. I was happy to hear Steve talk about me and not just make me feel like a number.

AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

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Re: IMC rumor [Ultra-tri-guy] [ In reply to ]
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Ultra-tri-guy wrote:
Pentictonite wrote:
Francois wrote:
Is there a remote chance for WTC to prevent Challenge from taken over and for the race to go on next year under the challenge label?


That would depend on what lawyer you ask and I am happy to discuss this further however based on the legal advice I am aware of, from my perspective the Challenge Penticton Race will occur and I suspect it will be a best ever.

There is a lot of excitement locally to put on a race that focuses more on the athletes and the overall race experience. It is also important that we not forget about this year’s race, and given that it is the 30th anniversary race I am hopeful that is also a great one for all involved.

==

I would suggest that if you are going to post here on ST and talk as if you are somehow in the "inner circle" of what is going on then you should no longer post anonymously..Full disclosure is the right way to go at the moment.

==


funny nick...you are the number one person on ST that like to make people think you are ''in the know'' but '' you cant say anything''.

People are free to post anonymously here. nothing wrong with this, we are just discussing.... nothing will come out of this. and the inner circle is pretty dam big in penticton....

Jonathan Caron

Jonnyo Coaching
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Re: IMC rumor [jonnyo] [ In reply to ]
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jonnyo wrote:
Ultra-tri-guy wrote:
Pentictonite wrote:
Francois wrote:
Is there a remote chance for WTC to prevent Challenge from taken over and for the race to go on next year under the challenge label?


That would depend on what lawyer you ask and I am happy to discuss this further however based on the legal advice I am aware of, from my perspective the Challenge Penticton Race will occur and I suspect it will be a best ever.

There is a lot of excitement locally to put on a race that focuses more on the athletes and the overall race experience. It is also important that we not forget about this year’s race, and given that it is the 30th anniversary race I am hopeful that is also a great one for all involved.

==

I would suggest that if you are going to post here on ST and talk as if you are somehow in the "inner circle" of what is going on then you should no longer post anonymously..Full disclosure is the right way to go at the moment.

==


.


funny nick...you are the number one person on ST that like to make people think you are ''in the know'' but '' you cant say anything''.

People are free to post anonymously here. nothing wrong with this, we are just discussing.... nothing will come out of this. and the inner circle is pretty dam big in penticton....


For the record I am only a volunteer who is interested in seeing the race succeed and wanted to try and answer questions that people had about the race. I am not affiliated with WTC or Challenge and I have no financial relations with the race in any way. Like most of the volunteers who give our time for this race in different ways, we do so for the amazing experience that this event has created.
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Re: IMC rumor [Jackb] [ In reply to ]
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Jackb wrote:
So why did WTC take the race from Fraser in the first place this spring?

Is it not WTC fault for not reading the contract Fraser had with Penticton about transferring the race to a third party?



WTC indicated that they “purchased” the license back from Graham Fraser (Graham may have a different version of events on that point) and were aware that the terms included a provision that the City of Penticton could refuse the transfer.

The problem is that for whatever reason (I could speculate of course) WTC did not formerly approach Penticton with a proposal going forward until late last week. In fact WTC officials only flew into Penticton to meet with the City and the evaluation task force on Monday of this week for the first time ever.

From my perspective once Mr. Messick seemed to comprehend the potential consequences of having waited so long to formerly approach Penticton in person, he flew in on Wednesday and presented a substantially revised offer.

The Mayor and Council, in part based on a recommendation from the Task Force committee, made the decision to go with what they felt was a better direction for the race, for the competitors, and for Penticton taxpayers. I can’t get into the terms of either agreement but ultimately I would submit and I am certain City council all agree (many have said so) why on earth WTC waited so long to attempt to secure the future of this race is beyond any of us and only Mr. Messick can answer the reason for the delay on the part of WTC.

That is the ultimately how this played out, although there are of course the usual legal threats going on behind the scenes at the moment and clearly a few people on here have a solid grasp at what direction that is coming from.
Last edited by: Pentictonite: Aug 24, 12 7:32
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Re: IMC rumor [Pentictonite] [ In reply to ]
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Hmm I got an email this morning from Subaru Canada directing me to a survey where I can choose whether I prefer Challenge or IMC operated by Fraser for Penticton 2013. The email said it is urgent I reply by noon. So does that mean it isn't settled yet?
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Re: IMC rumor [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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Agreed, I remember the years that Steve K did NOT announce at the finish line and it just wasn't the same. Steve's presence adds a sense of professionalism and class and SUBSTANCE that Mike Riley (as nice a guy as he is) and his generic catch-phrase lacks.

http://www.fitspeek.com the Fraser Valley's fitness, wellness, and endurance sports podcast
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Re: IMC rumor [sammie] [ In reply to ]
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Now! this is getting ugly.
Hoping that Challenge prevails!
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Re: IMC rumor [sammie] [ In reply to ]
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I think all participants did. I let them have it. To be honest I think it is settled. They are clutching at straws.

Why they didn't communicate with Penticton earlier is beyond me. They said nothing when the race was handed back to them. Nothing when asked by Penticton to come by for a meeting and only flew in last minute when they realised the crap was hitting the fan.

WTC either thought they were invincible or their organisation is so screwed up they can't even sort out a meeting with their host town. Local news reports are another good example .... interviews on camera with Challenge and a 'Didn't return our calls' from WTC.

Do I want WTC to fail? No. I hope they learn some valuable lessons and make a concerted effort to improve their races for athletes all over the world. Maybe this new guy they have will help move that forward. Until then, good on Challenge for taking one of the worlds greatest triathlons out of the hands of triathlons 'Big Boys'. Let's see what they do with it.


sammie wrote:
Hmm I got an email this morning from Subaru Canada directing me to a survey where I can choose whether I prefer Challenge or IMC operated by Fraser for Penticton 2013. The email said it is urgent I reply by noon. So does that mean it isn't settled yet?

https://www.pbandjcoaching.com
https://www.thisbigroadtrip.com
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Re: IMC rumor [rhys] [ In reply to ]
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rhys wrote:
$700+tax vs. $675 including tax is a difference of $116 if like me you live in Ontario.

But I hear you. $675 all in is still a lot of money.

Agreed, not much of a value. Most triathletes have blown more than $100 on useless gear already anyway.


Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca
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Re: IMC rumor [Pentictonite] [ In reply to ]
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This reply is to the thread and not Pentictonite in particular.

I am really torn in two directions on this.

From the business point of view, I believe (no inside knowledge, just have followed this story on ST over the years) Graham Fraser has done a great job of building up and running the north american continental IM's over the years and has been squeezed out by a hardball playing WTC. YOu have to suspect that the reason WTC delayed informing Penticton about this latest change was WTC's desire to not leave Penticton much time before this year's race to consider alternatives like Challenge to run the race. (that timing would have been important because of the number of people in town this week looking to sign up for next year.) Again, WTC hardball. From that point of view, I am happy to see Penticton giving WTC a taste of its own medicine by not just accepting WTC and instead going with Challenge.

From a personal racing point of view, I do not like the change. I may not like WTC's tactics but I love their races, I love IMC (Challenge Canada or whatever means nothing to me) and I love the prospect of getting lucky at the rolldowns and getting a spot to Kona. Much as I love going to penticton and racing there, much as i love that race course, much as I love the atmosphere at penticton during race week, I will likely not return for a Challenge race but will instead look at one of the other IMs that WTC operates.

I wish the town of Penticton well, and good for them that they have pushed back hard at WTC. But man! I hope they work it out so the Town is happy and the race stays IMC.

Grant

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Re: IMC rumor [rbuike] [ In reply to ]
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like barefoot shoes?


seriously though, Challenge is bringing prices down (isn't that what we want?) while WTC is taking costs up. You can argue $100 is not much, but it is more than 10% and it is still $100.

re: previous post regarding the Ironman Canada survey received in email today. I received that as well and wish I was able to copy my comments added. Suffice to say, I outlined:

- all roads lead to Kona is true, except when the course, the town, the race history dictates they don't need that road, then all roads lead within. Penticton does not NEED WTC unlike, say Lake Placid.
- having a 12 year history with this race and this town, I have watched in recent years a serious decline in the race quality and WTC commitment to Penticton.
- While I like some of the steps Messink is taking as CEO, the past 12 months show that a private equity firms drive for margin is hurting our sport. 70.3 launched, then cancelled; races taken over then closed within 2 years; in my own back yard the Muskoka 5150 fiasco vs. Toronto Tri Festival; Challenge Cairns; IMNYC; and then there is the LA "thing".
- Challenge business model affords more profit funds to flow to Penticton vs. to WTC. When WTC do a race all they bring a community is tourist money for a fee. Challenge brings a fee yes, but also leaves funds behind. Their model is better for communities. Effectively Penticton owns the race now.
- in conclusion, as a long time WTC customer I don't feel appreciated or that I get value for what I pay. This is a deadly business model. If I won't refer friends to your business, you are in trouble.

The Challenge Family and Penticton have a HUGE opportunity before them. Much larger an opportunity than with WTC as the partner. I wish them luck and I will come back.

All this said, I am racing on Sunday and it will be, I suspect, pretty emotional experience as my 5th race here. This is it. 30th and final IM race in Penticton. Looking forward to Steve King calling me in!

@rhyspencer
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Re: IMC rumor [rhys] [ In reply to ]
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How is spending $100 on Five Fingers which have solved the foot problems I had a waste? I was thinking more along the lines of transition mats and Freak of Nature wetsuits ;)

WTC is a mess, no doubt about it. I hope them losing one of their classic races is an eye opener to them and forces a good hard long look at themselves and fix things. Messink could be a good thing for WTC but he could also be too late to the party.


Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca
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Re: IMC rumor [rbuike] [ In reply to ]
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dude, it was in pink. relax.

@rhyspencer
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Re: IMC rumor [rbuike] [ In reply to ]
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IMC vrs Challenge Penticton? While I have an emotional attachment to IM and IMC I came to the conclusion that it is about the course (volunteers and community) versus the brand. That said, any 'brand' improvements are always welcomed. It just so happens (legalities aside) to be Challenges opportunity to showcase its brands. Thus, I'll be definitely signing up for C-P!

Kona is always a long shot for most that still drives the competitor. I recommend the Kona lottery and should you be lucky to be chosen then find a IM 70.3 to validate your draw.

If I were WTC I would be looking to quickly established a 70.3 in BC- Oliver? Osoyoos? It would be a step to show commitment to Western Canada. IMO, the Oliver Half is an unbelievable half.

Finally, I find it odd that Rappstar hasn't responded to this thread! I can only imagine that he has some comments to add but for some reason he is being quiet.

ItsAGoodLifeIfYouTriIt
Last edited by: Mr X: Aug 24, 12 9:10
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Re: IMC rumor [Forsler] [ In reply to ]
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Forsler wrote:
This reply is to the thread and not Pentictonite in particular.

I am really torn in two directions on this.

From the business point of view, I believe (no inside knowledge, just have followed this story on ST over the years) Graham Fraser has done a great job of building up and running the north american continental IM's over the years and has been squeezed out by a hardball playing WTC. YOu have to suspect that the reason WTC delayed informing Penticton about this latest change was WTC's desire to not leave Penticton much time before this year's race to consider alternatives like Challenge to run the race. (that timing would have been important because of the number of people in town this week looking to sign up for next year.) Again, WTC hardball. From that point of view, I am happy to see Penticton giving WTC a taste of its own medicine by not just accepting WTC and instead going with Challenge.

Those are very astute observations......
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Re: IMC rumor [rhys] [ In reply to ]
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LOL technically it was in red ;) Seriously though, have a great race this weekend!


Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca
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Re: IMC rumor [Pentictonite] [ In reply to ]
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General comments on the topic - even if WTC were to win the legal battle that appears to be going on behind the scenes here with the City of Penticton - how would it be possible with the animosity that will clearly be involved with both parties for WTC to put on a race next year in Penticton??
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Re: IMC rumor [Zulu] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Zulu wrote:
General comments on the topic - even if WTC were to win the legal battle that appears to be going on behind the scenes here with the City of Penticton - how would it be possible with the animosity that will clearly be involved with both parties for WTC to put on a race next year in Penticton??

Another very astute observation.
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [Forsler] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Forsler wrote:
From the business point of view, I believe (no inside knowledge, just have followed this story on ST over the years) Graham Fraser has done a great job of building up and running the north american continental IM's over the years and has been squeezed out by a hardball playing WTC. YOu have to suspect that the reason WTC delayed informing Penticton about this latest change was WTC's desire to not leave Penticton much time before this year's race to consider alternatives like Challenge to run the race. (that timing would have been important because of the number of people in town this week looking to sign up for next year.) Again, WTC hardball. From that point of view, I am happy to see Penticton giving WTC a taste of its own medicine by not just accepting WTC and instead going with Challenge.

WTC definitely needed to get a taste of its own medicine by one of these towns that they have truthfully taken advantage of over the years. Hopefully, this can cause them to rethink their usual actions and play nicer with towns, which would ultimately benefit everyone (WTC, locals, racers etc.) more.
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [Pentictonite] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Pentictonite wrote:
Zulu wrote:
General comments on the topic - even if WTC were to win the legal battle that appears to be going on behind the scenes here with the City of Penticton - how would it be possible with the animosity that will clearly be involved with both parties for WTC to put on a race next year in Penticton??


Another very astute observation.
_____

Actually not so astute .... both parties want to make money ... if WTC prevails legally, Penticton won't be making money either or bringing in tourism dollars for its businesses. They would work it out like lots of businesses do. We'll see what happens.

Dave
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [dcsxtri10] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
dcsxtri10 wrote:
Actually not so astute ....

It is to a degree. I think he was intimating that for WTC is could be a lost cause trying to win and that they won't persue it to that level. Rather than go for it and both parties suffer the consequence.

It sounds like WTC have to do three things. Force the guy with the licence to take back the Ironman rights that he forfeited to them. Force him to want to hold the event. And force Penticton to okay the licence back to the same guy despite the fact that they annulled when he said he had passed the race back to WTC.

That sounds like a whole bunch of US Corporation attempting to legally force a Canadian City and well respected member of the Penticton community to do something they don't want to do. Even if it was a 50/50 argument, which I don't think it is, I can't see any judge coming down on their side (complete guesswork on my part). My money is on Challenge.

With their email this morning (Do you want Challenge or WTC) WTC seem to be trying to overcome the 'We did it for the athletes' argument put forward by Penticton. Good luck with that!

I think WTC will fold on this and go about their business selling mattresses, scales and hitch plates.

https://www.pbandjcoaching.com
https://www.thisbigroadtrip.com
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [Jaymz] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Jaymz wrote:
dcsxtri10 wrote:
Actually not so astute ....


It is to a degree. I think he was intimating that for WTC is could be a lost cause trying to win and that they won't persue it to that level. Rather than go for it and both parties suffer the consequence.

It sounds like WTC have to do three things. Force the guy with the licence to take back the Ironman rights that he forfeited to them. Force him to want to hold the event. And force Penticton to okay the licence back to the same guy despite the fact that they annulled when he said he had passed the race back to WTC.

That sounds like a whole bunch of US Corporation attempting to legally force a Canadian City and well respected member of the Penticton community to do something they don't want to do. Even if it was a 50/50 argument, which I don't think it is, I can't see any judge coming down on their side (complete guesswork on my part). My money is on Challenge.

With their email this morning (Do you want Challenge or WTC) WTC seem to be trying to overcome the 'We did it for the athletes' argument put forward by Penticton. Good luck with that!

I think WTC will fold on this and go about their business selling mattresses, scales and hitch plates.
____

We don't know any of the legal details ..... but just supposing there wasn't a disclosure of a certain detail by a seller to WTC .... that seller might figure he would take it back since he had a problem otherwise .... I don't know ... just conjecture ;-)

Dave
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [Jaymz] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Jaymz wrote:
dcsxtri10 wrote:
Actually not so astute ....


It is to a degree. I think he was intimating that for WTC is could be a lost cause trying to win and that they won't persue it to that level. Rather than go for it and both parties suffer the consequence.

It sounds like WTC have to do three things. Force the guy with the licence to take back the Ironman rights that he forfeited to them. Force him to want to hold the event. And force Penticton to okay the licence back to the same guy despite the fact that they annulled when he said he had passed the race back to WTC.

That sounds like a whole bunch of US Corporation attempting to legally force a Canadian City and well respected member of the Penticton community to do something they don't want to do. Even if it was a 50/50 argument, which I don't think it is, I can't see any judge coming down on their side (complete guesswork on my part). My money is on Challenge.

With their email this morning (Do you want Challenge or WTC) WTC seem to be trying to overcome the 'We did it for the athletes' argument put forward by Penticton. Good luck with that!

I think WTC will fold on this and go about their business selling mattresses, scales and hitch plates.


Jaymz has a very solid understanding of this issue.

There is no agreement between WTC and the City of Penticton. When WTC “purchased” (again this is a term that Graham Fraser may or may not agree with) the license back from Graham there was no legal requirement for the City of Penticton to agree to a transfer of the agreement between the City and Graham Fraser to WTC. This point is not in dispute


The last minute legal maneuver that it appears WTC is pursuing is to “return” the license back to Graham and then argue that City and Graham have an agreement that they expect to be honored. Obviously this would require another agreement between Graham and WTC and one that I will not speculate on.

However Graham had already previously notified to the City that he had “lost” the license to WTC and that this would be his final year running IC. WTC did not dispute this point as obviously they were here in Penticton this week confirming that they had “purchased” the agreement from Graham (again “purchased” is a point that Graham may have a different view on) and of course WTC did finally at the last minute present a proposal for a new agreement.

It was only when the City of Penticton late Wednesday afternoon rejected the proposal and went with the Challenge Family instead that WTC is now asserting a potentially different position.

Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [Jaymz] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Jaymz wrote:
dcsxtri10 wrote:
Actually not so astute ....


It is to a degree. I think he was intimating that for WTC is could be a lost cause trying to win and that they won't persue it to that level. Rather than go for it and both parties suffer the consequence.

It sounds like WTC have to do three things. Force the guy with the licence to take back the Ironman rights that he forfeited to them. Force him to want to hold the event. And force Penticton to okay the licence back to the same guy despite the fact that they annulled when he said he had passed the race back to WTC.

That sounds like a whole bunch of US Corporation attempting to legally force a Canadian City and well respected member of the Penticton community to do something they don't want to do. Even if it was a 50/50 argument, which I don't think it is, I can't see any judge coming down on their side (complete guesswork on my part). My money is on Challenge.

With their email this morning (Do you want Challenge or WTC) WTC seem to be trying to overcome the 'We did it for the athletes' argument put forward by Penticton. Good luck with that!

I think WTC will fold on this and go about their business selling mattresses, scales and hitch plates.

Got a link to that Email?

.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
h2ofun wrote:

Got a link to that Email?

The Email:

Dear Mike,

Based on yesterday's events regarding the future of a triathlon race in Penticton, we wanted to send this email to you.

We care about this race and its 30-year history in Penticton. And, we care what you think.

This is your race and this is your opportunity to voice an opinion on what you'd like to see happen.

Please click this link below to share your opinion.

**Please note that there is urgency to this, and needs to be completed by noon today. Feel free to share this link.**


The Survey:


I. Subaru Ironman Canada Future

Your opinion on the future of a race in Penticton
*
1. Which event would you like to be held in Penticton in 2013 and beyond?
Which event would you like to be held in Penticton in 2013 and beyond? Challenge Penticton, operated by the Challenge Family
Subaru Ironman Canada, operated by Graham Fraser and team
*
2. Please share your thoughts about your answer above:
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [Kamala] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Kamala wrote:
h2ofun wrote:


Got a link to that Email?


The Email:

Dear Mike,

Based on yesterday's events regarding the future of a triathlon race in Penticton, we wanted to send this email to you.

We care about this race and its 30-year history in Penticton. And, we care what you think.

This is your race and this is your opportunity to voice an opinion on what you'd like to see happen.

Please click this link below to share your opinion.

**Please note that there is urgency to this, and needs to be completed by noon today. Feel free to share this link.**


The Survey:


I. Subaru Ironman Canada Future

Your opinion on the future of a race in Penticton
*
1. Which event would you like to be held in Penticton in 2013 and beyond?
Which event would you like to be held in Penticton in 2013 and beyond? Challenge Penticton, operated by the Challenge Family
Subaru Ironman Canada, operated by Graham Fraser and team
*
2. Please share your thoughts about your answer above:

I thought Fraser was done after 2012 with IMC?

.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [Old_Rambler] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I'm going to be one of the few who will come on here and admit to the ST mafia that I find this news very, very disappointing. As someone who has done IMC twice and was getting ready to sign up for 2013, I will no longer be doing so. I have a friend who I've talked to this morning who feels exactly the same way. If there is a choice between doing Challenge Penticton and Ironman Canada (in a different location) next year I'll be much more likely to do the latter.


It may be cool to bash WTC and the IM brand but it's an iconic brand that's become synonymous with this race distance. The other problem is losing 'Canada' from the event. How would people feel if the Boston Marathon became the 'Struggle Massachusetts'?


There is a tendency to think that the grass is always greener and I suspect that's one of the reasons the City of Penticton has gone this route. But at the end of the day they've shot themselves in the foot, IMO. Cities and towns all over Canada will be tripping over themselves to become the new host town of 'Ironman Canada' and then Penticton will have to compete with that race. But at least there will be more pumps in transition :)







Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [sharkGu] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
sharkGu wrote:
I'm going to be one of the few who will come on here and admit to the ST mafia that I find this news very, very disappointing. As someone who has done IMC twice and was getting ready to sign up for 2013, I will no longer be doing so. I have a friend who I've talked to this morning who feels exactly the same way. If there is a choice between doing Challenge Penticton and Ironman Canada (in a different location) next year I'll be much more likely to do the latter.


It may be cool to bash WTC and the IM brand but it's an iconic brand that's become synonymous with this race distance. The other problem is losing 'Canada' from the event. How would people feel if the Boston Marathon became the 'Struggle Massachusetts'?


There is a tendency to think that the grass is always greener and I suspect that's one of the reasons the City of Penticton has gone this route. But at the end of the day they've shot themselves in the foot, IMO. Cities and towns all over Canada will be tripping over themselves to become the new host town of 'Ironman Canada' and then Penticton will have to compete with that race. But at least there will be more pumps in transition :)
_____

I agree completely ..... I would have signed up(again) for IMC next year .... but I won't be doing "challenge penticton" .... despite more pumps ;-)

Dave






Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [sharkGu] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Give Challenge a try. You will be very surprised that there is life outside of the IM brand. I have done 3 IM, IMLP, IMFL and IM European Championship as well as Challenge Roth. They were all good but Roth was by far they best experience. Just a different vibe, a real triathlon and not a show but a huge party at the same time.

------------------------
Cornwall (Ontario) Triathlon
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [sharkGu] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
sharkGu wrote:
I'm going to be one of the few who will come on here and admit to the ST mafia that I find this news very, very disappointing. As someone who has done IMC twice and was getting ready to sign up for 2013, I will no longer be doing so. I have a friend who I've talked to this morning who feels exactly the same way. If there is a choice between doing Challenge Penticton and Ironman Canada (in a different location) next year I'll be much more likely to do the latter.


It may be cool to bash WTC and the IM brand but it's an iconic brand that's become synonymous with this race distance. The other problem is losing 'Canada' from the event. How would people feel if the Boston Marathon became the 'Struggle Massachusetts'?


There is a tendency to think that the grass is always greener and I suspect that's one of the reasons the City of Penticton has gone this route. But at the end of the day they've shot themselves in the foot, IMO. Cities and towns all over Canada will be tripping over themselves to become the new host town of 'Ironman Canada' and then Penticton will have to compete with that race. But at least there will be more pumps in transition :)






\

Man, try something different in life. Doing the same thing over and over again can get pretty boring. But, you are exactly the kind of person WTC wants. For some reason you think there is no triathlon outside of WTC.

.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [sharkGu] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
sharkGu wrote:
If there is a choice between doing Challenge Penticton and Ironman Canada (in a different location) next year I'll be much more likely to do the latter.

So, regardless of location you will want to do the WTC Ironman because of the logo? So you can say to people 'I am doing Ironman'.

Even though the IMC course is stellar, the crowd fantastic and Challenge likely to be able to build on what is already there? You would choose whatever location M Dot went to?

How big is your M Dot tattoo? ;)

https://www.pbandjcoaching.com
https://www.thisbigroadtrip.com
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
That's actually what I said in my required comment to participate in the survey. Also, given the lack of water last year, I'm not as smitten with Fraser as others.
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [RobAllen] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
RobAllen wrote:
Give Challenge a try. You will be very surprised that there is life outside of the IM brand. I have done 3 IM, IMLP, IMFL and IM European Championship as well as Challenge Roth. They were all good but Roth was by far they best experience. Just a different vibe, a real triathlon and not a show but a huge party at the same time.

You won't sway them all. Whether its about Kona, or otherwise, they are seemingly glued to the brand. So much so, that they may even get the corporate logo etched permanently in their skin. For those that won't do the race next year because it is not an M-dot, that's your decision. Good luck at Ironman Whistler, or wherever the race may take you. I for one am very excited about the new race. I did IMC in 2009, and happy that I did so. Had no interest in every doing it again, until now. As Rob stated, give it a shot. What have you got to lose?

"The runner-up John Dunbar, a US Navy Seal, led after the second transition and had a chance to win but ran out of water on the marathon course; his support crew resorted to giving him beer instead." -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ironman_Triathlon
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [sharkGu] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I bet you drive a Mercedes just so you can impress the neighbors too....am I right?

Next paycheck says you're drinking out of an M-dot coffee mug as you read this.

Ironman distance is an ironman no matter who puts it on or where its at. Let go of the hype.
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [sharkGu] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
sharkGu wrote:
I'm going to be one of the few who will come on here and admit to the ST mafia that I find this news very, very disappointing. As someone who has done IMC twice and was getting ready to sign up for 2013, I will no longer be doing so. I have a friend who I've talked to this morning who feels exactly the same way. If there is a choice between doing Challenge Penticton and Ironman Canada (in a different location) next year I'll be much more likely to do the latter.


It may be cool to bash WTC and the IM brand but it's an iconic brand that's become synonymous with this race distance. The other problem is losing 'Canada' from the event. How would people feel if the Boston Marathon became the 'Struggle Massachusetts'?


There is a tendency to think that the grass is always greener and I suspect that's one of the reasons the City of Penticton has gone this route. But at the end of the day they've shot themselves in the foot, IMO. Cities and towns all over Canada will be tripping over themselves to become the new host town of 'Ironman Canada' and then Penticton will have to compete with that race. But at least there will be more pumps in transition :)


+1 Challenge Penticton will be a great race but it will never be Ironman Canada. Challenge Penticton will be like a Massachusetts Marathon or a Rev3 Kona. Everything that makes it special has been lost.








Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca
Last edited by: rbuike: Aug 24, 12 11:57
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [Writerguy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I am not sure if anyone has posted something about this, but what happens to Subaru? Do they get to sponsor the Challenge Penticton or do they just walk away? Might they sponsor the next IMC city? Just curious. Perhaps they are just as confused as everyone else is.
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [sharkGu] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
sharkGu wrote:
I'm going to be one of the few who will come on here and admit to the ST mafia that I find this news very, very disappointing. As someone who has done IMC twice and was getting ready to sign up for 2013, I will no longer be doing so. I have a friend who I've talked to this morning who feels exactly the same way. If there is a choice between doing Challenge Penticton and Ironman Canada (in a different location) next year I'll be much more likely to do the latter.


It may be cool to bash WTC and the IM brand but it's an iconic brand that's become synonymous with this race distance. The other problem is losing 'Canada' from the event. How would people feel if the Boston Marathon became the 'Struggle Massachusetts'?


There is a tendency to think that the grass is always greener and I suspect that's one of the reasons the City of Penticton has gone this route. But at the end of the day they've shot themselves in the foot, IMO. Cities and towns all over Canada will be tripping over themselves to become the new host town of 'Ironman Canada' and then Penticton will have to compete with that race. But at least there will be more pumps in transition :)

Well put.

Tom










Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
I thought Fraser was done after 2012 with IMC?


He led out the kids fun run last night. Not sure what else he's doing but I've seen him riding around on his bike quite a bit this week.

------------------------------
"Unless you have a ... GF who might put out that night and that night only ... skip it and race." - AndyPants 3-15-2007
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [sharkGu] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
sharkGu wrote:
I'm going to be one of the few who will come on here and admit to the ST mafia that I find this news very, very disappointing. As someone who has done IMC twice and was getting ready to sign up for 2013, I will no longer be doing so. I have a friend who I've talked to this morning who feels exactly the same way. If there is a choice between doing Challenge Penticton and Ironman Canada (in a different location) next year I'll be much more likely to do the latter.

I'm with you to an extent. I'm a bit sad that the Penticton race will no longer be an Ironman race. I'm doing IMC for my second time this year and more likely than not will be back in the future when it's a Challenge race. Not next year - too expensive a trip from Texas - but probably in 2-3 years. For me I'm disappointed because of the loss of a Kona connection. I'm no where close to qualifying or getting a roll down. But, with the new legacy program I've got a chance and I'm getting closer and closer - this will make number 6 for me. This means that when I come back to do the Challenge race it won't count towards my legacy count.

p.s. I doubt I'll go to another race just because it's called Ironman Canada. I might go if it looks like an interesting course/destination but not simply because it's called IMC.

------------------------------
"Unless you have a ... GF who might put out that night and that night only ... skip it and race." - AndyPants 3-15-2007
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [rbuike] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
[/quote]

+1 Challenge Penticton will be a great race but it will never be Ironman Canada. Challenge Penticton will be like a Massachusetts Marathon or a Rev3 Kona. Everything that makes it special has been lost.





[/quote]
Was it special before WTC?
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [sharkGu] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
sharkGu wrote:
I'm going to be one of the few who will come on here and admit to the ST mafia that I find this news very, very disappointing. As someone who has done IMC twice and was getting ready to sign up for 2013, I will no longer be doing so. I have a friend who I've talked to this morning who feels exactly the same way. If there is a choice between doing Challenge Penticton and Ironman Canada (in a different location) next year I'll be much more likely to do the latter.


It may be cool to bash WTC and the IM brand but it's an iconic brand that's become synonymous with this race distance. The other problem is losing 'Canada' from the event. How would people feel if the Boston Marathon became the 'Struggle Massachusetts'?


There is a tendency to think that the grass is always greener and I suspect that's one of the reasons the City of Penticton has gone this route. But at the end of the day they've shot themselves in the foot, IMO. Cities and towns all over Canada will be tripping over themselves to become the new host town of 'Ironman Canada' and then Penticton will have to compete with that race. But at least there will be more pumps in transition :)


And none will have this iconic and classic course. I think a lot of people don't realize that nothing is really changing from the average athlete's perspective. Aside from slightly lower entry fees and wave starts, 2013 will be exactly the same race. The course is not changing, the town is not changing, and I'm willing to bet most of the great volunteers (who are really the core of the race) will not change either.
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [GreatScott] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Yes, IMC was special before WTC!
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
That was my point. How can someone say "all that was special is lost", when WTC is the only thing that is gone.

Scott
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [GreatScott] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
GreatScott wrote:
That was my point. How can someone say "all that was special is lost", when WTC is the only thing that is gone.

Scott

When one has become a lemming, logic is out the door.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
devashish_paul wrote:
Yes, IMC was special before WTC!


----

...and it will be special after WTC..It is not the name of the race but the community in which it is raced that makes it special..WTC alienated the very community that made IMC so special in the first place.


-----
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [Ultra-tri-guy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I've already got my relay team in place if it goes through. :-)

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jen - @ultragrrl

"In order to keep a true perspective on one's importance, everyone should have a dog that worships him and a cat that will ignore him." - Dereke Bruce
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [rbuike] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
rbuike wrote:

+1 Challenge Penticton will be a great race but it will never be Ironman Canada. Challenge Penticton will be like a Massachusetts Marathon or a Rev3 Kona. Everything that makes it special has been lost.

FTFY
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [jonnyo] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jonnyo wrote:
Ultra-tri-guy wrote:
Pentictonite wrote:
Francois wrote:
Is there a remote chance for WTC to prevent Challenge from taken over and for the race to go on next year under the challenge label?


That would depend on what lawyer you ask and I am happy to discuss this further however based on the legal advice I am aware of, from my perspective the Challenge Penticton Race will occur and I suspect it will be a best ever.

There is a lot of excitement locally to put on a race that focuses more on the athletes and the overall race experience. It is also important that we not forget about this year’s race, and given that it is the 30th anniversary race I am hopeful that is also a great one for all involved.

==

I would suggest that if you are going to post here on ST and talk as if you are somehow in the "inner circle" of what is going on then you should no longer post anonymously..Full disclosure is the right way to go at the moment.

==



funny nick...you are the number one person on ST that like to make people think you are ''in the know'' but '' you cant say anything''.

People are free to post anonymously here. nothing wrong with this, we are just discussing.... nothing will come out of this. and the inner circle is pretty dam big in penticton....
--

Jonnyo,why would I say things that were said to me in confidence by people from both sides of this battle...Everything I have been able to say on this subject over the last few years has come true but people here don't actually want to look back in time and check that out..It is what it is and I couldn't be happier.

---
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Not replying directly to your post Dev, just the last post in the topic as I'm beginning to wonder about the fallout from this decision:

So if some of the conjecture is true from this discussion, it would seem that WTC has been somewhat blindsided by this turn of events. So where does WTC go with Ironman Canada from here? Do they:

- Take a 'high road' and re-name IMMT as IMC and let go of Western Canada?
- Fire a shot right back at Challange and host an IMC in the same 'region' on the same date next year?
- Wait a year and come back to the same region to compete?
- Hold on to the name and wait for Penticton to become available again down the road?
- Go somewhere else with IMC?
- Other?

And how quickly do they respond?

If this is the first shot of many by Challenge at 'scooping' these events, WTC may decide to take a forceful competitive response to ensure that it doesn't happen again somewhere else. Challenge may think twice if they keep 'scooping' events only to find WTC open up shop next door and compete for the same market.

All in all, the competition is good for us consumers, but I am very interested to see WTC's response as a business to this change once all of the legal response shakes out and they're left on the outside looking in at Penticton.

Interesting times indeed... I'll be down to cheer on Sunday! Good luck to those racing!
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [Jaymz] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
No, I wouldn't choose any course just because it's an IM brand. But it would be a tie breaker for sure. Kelowna would be able to put together a very nice course, as would countless other communities in Canada. As a Canadian, the name Ironman Canada means something to me. But I wouldn't do a crappy course.

And no, I don't have a tattoo. But am I proud to wear my shirt sometimes? Of course I am. I'd call BS on anyone who says otherwise.
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [sharkGu] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
sharkGu wrote:

It may be cool to bash WTC and the IM brand but it's an iconic brand that's become synonymous with this race distance. The other problem is losing 'Canada' from the event. How would people feel if the Boston Marathon became the 'Struggle Massachusetts'?


What crack have you been smoking.

The WTC is a corporate entity. It is owned by Providence Equity... The WTC that exists today is a HEDGE fund, running for profit races to eventually be sold for a large profit.

It is VERY much different that the WTC that started the races, etc.

Whether you like it or not this can be like the Yawkey family and trust finally selling the Red Sox to the Henry Group.

If there was a "big change" it was Graham Fraser getting tossed out on his a$$ by the WTC. He is the one who built up the race. He is the one that has been keeping it running. Fertig and Messick may put a corporate M-DOT on the race, but that is no different than when the naming rights to the Fleet Center passed to TD Bank North. Same Building. Same people inside. Different name on the outside.

The ouster of Fraser is the bigger issue, but so many people are part of the MDot cult, all they care about is whether there is a red M and really care less about the people behind the scene who make the race.

The same can be said for IM Mont Tremblant. It may have a Red M Dot next to the name, etc., but what made the race was Marc Roy and the people of Tremblant who bought into the race. The individual RDs have a lot more impact than the Franchise in the end
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Re: IMC rumor [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I'll put my life experiences up against yours any day.

I've chosen IMC because it's the best course and happens to be my 'home' race. Why would I travel somewhere else to do an inferior race? That said, any race in western Canada would be equally as convenient and I'd look hard at that if the course was good.

And btw, the vast majority of triathlons I've done aren't M-dot branded.
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Re: IMC rumor [sharkGu] [ In reply to ]
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sharkgu, my thoughts are very similar to yours.

Its too bad a person can't express an opinion here about what they prefer for themselves without others suggesting you are foolish for not agreeing with their personal preferences.

Grant

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Re: IMC rumor [sharkGu] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
sharkGu wrote:
I'll put my life experiences up against yours any day.

I've chosen IMC because it's the best course and happens to be my 'home' race. Why would I travel somewhere else to do an inferior race? That said, any race in western Canada would be equally as convenient and I'd look hard at that if the course was good.

And btw, the vast majority of triathlons I've done aren't M-dot branded.

So why does it make any difference if it is the same course, in the same town and it your home race whether it was WTC, or XYZ as the owner. As others have posted, WTC hires RD's to do the races. Would you
not be more concerned about who is running the race? WTC has had a number of races that were just terrible. Was it WTC or the RD they hired?

Now for me, I care if a race is USAT or not, so I am a lemming to them I guess. I wear my TeamUSA gear with pride. And we know what some think about USAT on ST. :o)

No idea where life experiences got into this issue, but you win.

.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [sharkGu] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
sharkGu wrote:
I'll put my life experiences up against yours any day.

I've chosen IMC because it's the best course and happens to be my 'home' race. Why would I travel somewhere else to do an inferior race? That said, any race in western Canada would be equally as convenient and I'd look hard at that if the course was good.

And btw, the vast majority of triathlons I've done aren't M-dot branded.

May want to check your previous post, where you said this; "I'm going to be one of the few who will come on here and admit to the ST mafia that I find this news very, very disappointing. As someone who has done IMC twice and was getting ready to sign up for 2013, I will no longer be doing so."

Since it is the same course, in the same town, with the same volunteers, then why wouldn't you do it? If this is your 'home' race, then why do you care what it is called, or who owns the rights to the event? Give it a chance. Does it have to be called Challenge Canada to get you interested?

"The runner-up John Dunbar, a US Navy Seal, led after the second transition and had a chance to win but ran out of water on the marathon course; his support crew resorted to giving him beer instead." -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ironman_Triathlon
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Re: IMC rumor [Pentictonite] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for posting the information you have posted this week. You seem to be the best source here for the details of what is going on.

Grant

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Re: IMC rumor [dgunthert] [ In reply to ]
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dgunthert wrote:
rbuike wrote:


+1 Challenge Penticton will be a great race but it will never be Ironman Canada. Challenge Penticton will be like a Massachusetts Marathon or a Rev3 Kona. Everything that makes it special has been lost.


FTFY

No you didn't


Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca
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Re: IMC rumor [Forsler] [ In reply to ]
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Forsler wrote:
Thanks for posting the information you have posted this week. You seem to be the best source here for the details of what is going on.


Thanks Forsler, I really appreciate that.

I am a huge believer in the importance of sharing information and people having a right to know what is going on (as much as is possible given the unfortunate currently escalating legal situation occurring behind the scenes. Let us all hope cooler heads will prevail for the benefit of the sport)

As mentioned earlier I am only a volunteer and hope that Sunday’s race will be a successful one as much as next year’s race will be.
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Re: IMC rumor [Ultra-tri-guy] [ In reply to ]
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Ultra-tri-guy wrote:


----

...and it will be special after WTC..It is not the name of the race but the community in which it is raced that makes it special..WTC alienated the very community that made IMC so special in the first place.


-----

Exactly! I have done the IMC race twice and out of the ten 140.6 races I have done it is my favorite. I really enjoyed my week in Penticton much more than LP. I enjoyed the pre race vibe, the course is epic and the post race lazy river and wine tours. I didn't go there b/c of Kona slots, I could care less.
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Re: IMC rumor [RobAllen] [ In reply to ]
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Part of the experience is the people ( spectators) at the event. Challenge / WTC doesent have anything to do with those people. I did Germany 70.3 in Wieisbaden last year it was AMAZING becasue of the people in the villages / along the course. People in full costume running next to you up the climbs like in the tour.... amazing. So far the only thing I have heard about Challenge being better is more pumps in transition
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Re: IMC rumor [Ultra-tri-guy] [ In reply to ]
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Ultra-tri-guy wrote:
...and it will be special after WTC..It is not the name of the race but the community in which it is raced that makes it special..WTC alienated the very community that made IMC so special in the first place.

And the course itself, don't forget the course. I agree that the community of people is the foundation, but remember how pissed we all were when the course was in danger of going to loops to save money? I'm not talking about the fire year run course...before that, there was a move to shrink it down to loops. Frankly I don't remember if that was during the period of WTC control - I think not. In fact I think the reason it didn't happen is Graham et al listened to the outcry and backed off. The seemingly simple facts that you aren't doing two half ironman swims back to back with a stroll on the beach and a sip of water in between, and the bike ride actually goes somewhere, and the view on the run never repeats (granted, it does reverse) are important. Maybe not to everybody, but certainly more important to me than the logo on the t-shirt.
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Re: IMC rumor [Tri Bread] [ In reply to ]
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Tri Bread wrote:
Looks like it could be a busy race, 3000 single registrans and 500 relay teams.

http://triathlon.competitor.com/...enge-penticton_60105


Yeah that's the one thing that has me more than a little uneasy. Start waves will help somewhat, but 4500 athletes - that's a lot. Swimming in the lake or riding the run course the week before is not going to be as relaxing as it was when there were only 1500 people, never mind trying to find a meal. Pasta dinner with "wave starts" of its own I assume?
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Re: IMC rumor [skip] [ In reply to ]
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I think the relays could be a lot of fun. It could get quite competitive over the years if it was family vs. family thing. I know some people would stack their team with 'specialists' , hunt down the best of the best from across the world, but I guess thats all part of the race. I am not however a huge fan of wave starts. After doing the Kelowna Triathlon last weekend, I had to sit around for three hours and wait for my wave. I don't think the female 60-65 year old age division should get to start bright and early at 7 am while every other male category has to run into them on the swim and bike. How about a pro wave, male wave, female wave and then the relay wave? Make it simple. Start everyone by 7:30. None of this 8 or 9 am bs.
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Re: IMC rumor [tri_kid] [ In reply to ]
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Guess you have better never do Wildflower. Have always had waves, and yep, takes like over 3 hours for us all to go off. No big deal, I just adjust things.

.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [Forsler] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Forsler wrote:
Its too bad a person can't express an opinion here about what they prefer for themselves without others suggesting you are foolish for not agreeing with their personal preferences.

Welcome to a forum. If you place your opinion on a site dedicated to people discussing what had gone before you do have to expect both agreement and disagreement. No?

Am in Penticton now, looking forward to the race meal and presentation this evening. Speeches should be a blast!

https://www.pbandjcoaching.com
https://www.thisbigroadtrip.com
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Re: IMC rumor [tri_kid] [ In reply to ]
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Kelowna has a pro wave that goes after the ag is done in the afternoon.

___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [Ultra-tri-guy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I agree in many ways as someone who competed in Ironman Canada 18 times starting back in 1989 long before WTC owned the race, but the name Ironman Canada was always a special name to me, I was proud to say yes I have been to Ironman Canada. Over the years I had many chances to go to other races but as my wife and I fell in love with Penticton and the surrounding area it was the place we loved to go to each summer, doing the race was great but so was the vacation we had after the race, traveling around the area. I was lucky enough to go to Kona 8 times but to me Penticton will always be the special place.
I guess I am sad to see the name Ironman Canada go away regardless who owned the name, if it had not been for my darn illness this year I would have returned to participate in this year’s 30th race as I wanted to reach number 20 but the last couple of years the old body has not been too kind to me so I have not been back to Penticton since 2008, but who knows maybe next year.
So for people who never made it to Ironman Canada and you want a great race in a wonderful area I don’ t think you can go wrong by trying this challenge if it is the Ironman distance race you want to do in a great area. Gosh I sound like a spokesperson for the Penticton but over the years when anyone has asked me about the race I have always said go you will not regret it. I hope that doesn't change... Cheers LA Rob
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Re: IMC rumor [Ultra-tri-guy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
WTC alienated the very community that made IMC so special in the first place.


I'm not trying to be argumentative. I honestly want to know. What has WTC done to alienate the community here. I did the race in 2010 and am back this year. Things seem the same to me. I'll likely be back at some point in the future as a Challenge race. We love it up here.

The one thing I've read here is how WTC waited so long to get with the city about the race. Only coming to town this week I think I read. Are there other things that have gone on that I don't know about?

Thanks

------------------------------
"Unless you have a ... GF who might put out that night and that night only ... skip it and race." - AndyPants 3-15-2007
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Re: IMC rumor [hercules] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
hercules wrote:
I agree in many ways as someone who competed in Ironman Canada 18 times starting back in 1989 long before WTC owned the race, but the name Ironman Canada was always a special name to me, I was proud to say yes I have been to Ironman Canada. Over the years I had many chances to go to other races but as my wife and I fell in love with Penticton and the surrounding area it was the place we loved to go to each summer, doing the race was great but so was the vacation we had after the race, traveling around the area. I was lucky enough to go to Kona 8 times but to me Penticton will always be the special place.
I guess I am sad to see the name Ironman Canada go away regardless who owned the name, if it had not been for my darn illness this year I would have returned to participate in this year’s 30th race as I wanted to reach number 20 but the last couple of years the old body has not been too kind to me so I have not been back to Penticton since 2008, but who knows maybe next year.
So for people who never made it to Ironman Canada and you want a great race in a wonderful area I don’ t think you can go wrong by trying this challenge if it is the Ironman distance race you want to do in a great area. Gosh I sound like a spokesperson for the Penticton but over the years when anyone has asked me about the race I have always said go you will not regret it. I hope that doesn't change... Cheers LA Rob

Thanks for your kind words Rob, as a volunteer and local Penticton resident it is people like you that make our job helping out that much more rewarding. I sure hope you get well and are back again next year. As volunteers we also get pretty attached to all of our out of town athletes as well.
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Re: IMC rumor [Mr X] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
By the time I was allowed to say what I'd known for a bit, the thread was already too long and crazy...


"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp | Game Designer @ Zwift

Ask me about: 1st Endurance | Normatec - $100 off RAPP2019 | Zipp | Quarq | SRAM
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [logella] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
logella wrote:
Quote:
WTC alienated the very community that made IMC so special in the first place.


I'm not trying to be argumentative. I honestly want to know. What has WTC done to alienate the community here. I did the race in 2010 and am back this year. Things seem the same to me. I'll likely be back at some point in the future as a Challenge race. We love it up here.

The one thing I've read here is how WTC waited so long to get with the city about the race. Only coming to town this week I think I read. Are there other things that have gone on that I don't know about?

Thanks


---

I will happily tell you personally or chat with you wife about it on the breakfast cruise but there is no real point speaking any further about it here as this place tend to throw reason out the window.I'm am sure you are not wanting to start an argument about it but I suspect there are others here who will and quite frankly I can't be bothered to deal with them.

As for full discolsure,anyone who wants to speak to me about it can come and visit with me at Peach City Runners tomorrow and ask me face to face.

---
Last edited by: Ultra-tri-guy: Aug 24, 12 19:22
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [hercules] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
hercules wrote:
I agree in many ways as someone who competed in Ironman Canada 18 times starting back in 1989 long before WTC owned the race, but the name Ironman Canada was always a special name to me, I was proud to say yes I have been to Ironman Canada. Over the years I had many chances to go to other races but as my wife and I fell in love with Penticton and the surrounding area it was the place we loved to go to each summer, doing the race was great but so was the vacation we had after the race, traveling around the area. I was lucky enough to go to Kona 8 times but to me Penticton will always be the special place.
I guess I am sad to see the name Ironman Canada go away regardless who owned the name, if it had not been for my darn illness this year I would have returned to participate in this year’s 30th race as I wanted to reach number 20 but the last couple of years the old body has not been too kind to me so I have not been back to Penticton since 2008, but who knows maybe next year.
So for people who never made it to Ironman Canada and you want a great race in a wonderful area I don’ t think you can go wrong by trying this challenge if it is the Ironman distance race you want to do in a great area. Gosh I sound like a spokesperson for the Penticton but over the years when anyone has asked me about the race I have always said go you will not regret it. I hope that doesn't change... Cheers LA Rob

Thanks for your post.

x2 on the parts in bold.
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Re: IMC rumor [hercules] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Best post of the 360, imo in that it brings a solid perspective to this tempest in a teapot. It also reminds us to think of people who would do anything to be healthy enough to contemplate doing this race under any banner.

Things change, shit happens and it ain't over 'til the fat lady sings. This is early days in this dispute and there will be a lot of uncertainty in the weeks and months ahead as the issue resolves. One thing that appears to be consistent is what a colossal f/u the responsible parties have made of this and thanks to them, we have a truly entertaining drama in the Okanagan! The future is always uncertain, but one thing is for sure...Sunday's race is going to be AWESOME!!!!!! No matter what kind of distracting hooey goes on, the athletes, the volunteers and the spectators always show the true essence of this fantastic event. Can't wait.
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [Ultra-tri-guy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
I will happily tell you personally or chat with you wife about it on the breakfast cruise but there is no real point speaking any further about it here as this place tend to throw reason out the window.I'm am sure you are not wanting to start an argument about it but I suspect there are others here who will and quite frankly I can't be bothered to deal with them.


I understand completely.

Maybe I'll swim over to the boat and we can't chat for a bit on Sunday. :-) The family is looking forward to the cruise.

------------------------------
"Unless you have a ... GF who might put out that night and that night only ... skip it and race." - AndyPants 3-15-2007
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Sigh, I have to agree with you Dev and hercules et.al. - this is one of the best full-distances races around. It is sad to hear that "Ironman Canada" will no longer be in Penticton. It had a certain... je ne sais quoi about it. When I travel and race, I love wearing my IMC schwag - it's some of the only Canadian stuff I have for racing. However, after IMNZ in 2011 and seeing the WTC schmaltz/schtick/ai-yi-yi/crap going on - including but not exclusive to:

- less value for $ (don't tell me about insurance/permits etc. - I don't want to hear that lame-ass excuse again - now all you get is a cotton t-shirt and a weak-ass medal - in 2005 I had 2 nice shirts + awesome event-branded towel + wicket hat - now it's virtually nada plus a gang-rape in the merch tent);
- a whole lot of "how awesome are we.... go WTC!!! whee!!!" followed up by the WORST pre-race meal offered for that price point (I felt truly bad for those who bought extra tix for family);
- four gabagillion people on course with rampant drafting and little to no officiating...
- I can go on and on here folks...

Yes, the race that finally turned me off WTC events was IMNZ and not IMC but I know that's how it would have gone once Graham was out of the picture. Having done IMC in 2009, even then I could see how things were degrading. I VOWED I would never do another WTC race after IMNZ, so I was really happy to hear about Challenge taking things over in Penticton.

I am very ready for a change. And if WTC ain't gonna change, then I am happy that the full-distance race in Penticton will.

AP

------------------------
"How bad could it be?" - SimpleS
Last edited by: AndyPants: Aug 24, 12 20:37
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Re: IMC rumor [AndyPants] [ In reply to ]
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Oh and BTW, I am the ultimate thread-killer on ST (in case you didn't know - you might as well say "Nazis" I'm that good).

:-)

AP

------------------------
"How bad could it be?" - SimpleS
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [tri_kid] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
tri_kid wrote:
I am not sure if anyone has posted something about this, but what happens to Subaru? Do they get to sponsor the Challenge Penticton or do they just walk away? Might they sponsor the next IMC city? Just curious. Perhaps they are just as confused as everyone else is.


Finally someone is getting to the important issues. I was going to sign up for IMC 2013 but if Subaru is gone there is no way. I will wait until I know what Subaru decides to do.



http://www.frostyjunction.com/
https://twitter.com/FrostyJunction
Last edited by: FrostyJ: Aug 24, 12 22:01
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [FrostyJ] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
must have been important enough for you to respond to it after reading 13 pages of posts. I would think Penticton Challenge is looking for some sponsorships. Maybe you own a business and want to help out?
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Re: IMC rumor [tri_kid] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
tri_kid wrote:
must have been important enough for you to respond to it after reading 13 pages of posts. I would think Penticton Challenge is looking for some sponsorships. Maybe you own a business and want to help out?

---
Clearly this sort of thing will be sorted out after this years race has been run..

--
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Re: IMC rumor [realAlbertan] [ In reply to ]
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yeah, i know. i was there. but i talked to a girl in the elite wave and she said she did not like waiting all morning and starting in the heat. Do you think the pros at challenge should start after everyone else and be forced to pass everyone on the swim bike run? Olympic is a lot different from Ironman. What do they do in Roth?
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [tri_kid] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
tri_kid wrote:
must have been important enough for you to respond to it after reading 13 pages of posts. I would think Penticton Challenge is looking for some sponsorships. Maybe you own a business and want to help out?

They contacted me last week about being a title sponsor but I told them I won't make a decision until I know what Subaru is doing.



http://www.frostyjunction.com/
https://twitter.com/FrostyJunction
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [tri_kid] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
tri_kid wrote:
must have been important enough for you to respond to it after reading 13 pages of posts. I would think Penticton Challenge is looking for some sponsorships. Maybe you own a business and want to help out?

he does own a business. i think the "frosty junction challenge penticton" would be awesome. i'd sign up for that.
and sometimes people just skip to the end or make a joke.
so why did you think it was so important to chime in to his post?



---------------------------------------
Fruit snacks are for winners
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Re: IMC rumor [bmeer] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
sounds better than the Auquadrat Ironman US Championship.
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Re: IMC rumor [tri_kid] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
tri_kid wrote:
must have been important enough for you to respond to it after reading 13 pages of posts. I would think Penticton Challenge is looking for some sponsorships. Maybe you own a business and want to help out?

Good point ! The Challenge Penticton information pavilion will be set up in the SS Sicamous (old sternwheeler vessel at the west end of the beach near Salty’s Beach House restaurant) if you are looking for more information on the race or are interested in sponsorship opportunities and anything else feel free to drop by.
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [Pentictonite] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Pentictonite wrote:
tri_kid wrote:
must have been important enough for you to respond to it after reading 13 pages of posts. I would think Penticton Challenge is looking for some sponsorships. Maybe you own a business and want to help out?


Good point ! The Challenge Penticton information pavilion will be set up in the SS Sicamous (old sternwheeler vessel at the west end of the beach near Salty’s Beach House restaurant) if you are looking for more information on the race or are interested in sponsorship opportunities and anything else feel free to drop by.

i think someone forgot their pink font. (it wasn't you)



---------------------------------------
Fruit snacks are for winners
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [tri_kid] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Roth send the pro men, then the pro women, then the sub 9 group, then the elite, then waves not based on age group but finishing time. No logjams on the course at all and Roth probably has the highest number of participants in a race (bike is 2 loops as well).

Another thing is drafting penalties. Challenge Roth is 8 minutes for your first infraction. DQ for your second. Makes people think if it is worth it. I saw very little to no drafing with marshalls all over the course.

------------------------
Cornwall (Ontario) Triathlon
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [RobAllen] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Just use the TriCan rules.

___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [rbuike] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
rbuike wrote:
dgunthert wrote:
rbuike wrote:

+1 Challenge Penticton will be a great race but it will never be Ironman Canada. Challenge Penticton will be like a Massachusetts Marathon or a Rev3 Kona. Everything that makes it special has been lost.

FTFY


No you didn't

Yes, I know you meant it seriously. I was merely trying to point out to others that it's absurd. The fact that it's losing the name "Ironman" means nothing except for the brand conscious. It's certainly not what made this race special to people who rush to sign up it over venues like Louisville and The Woodlands. The fact that it's losing WTC means nothing at all. WTC had never run this race until this year. They simply let Graham organize and put it on while allowing him to use the name "Ironman". The race was losing Graham whether the it continued as Ironman Canada or not. Contrary to being a good thing, WTC taking direct control over the race did not bode well for the experience. There's plenty of evidence from the races that WTC has taken direct control over in the past. IMLP is a good example. Every year it seems there are a few more corners cut since WTC took over. Even more than the athlete's experience, the support for the volunteers is far inferior to the days when Graham ran that race. My parents would know. They've volunteered every year since 2005 and have been captains since 2006.

So are you really claiming that the name and the Kona slots are the only things that made Ironman Canada special?
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Re: IMC rumor [bobloblaw] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
bobloblaw wrote:

And none will have this iconic and classic course. I think a lot of people don't realize that nothing is really changing from the average athlete's perspective. Aside from slightly lower entry fees and wave starts, 2013 will be exactly the same race. The course is not changing, the town is not changing, and I'm willing to bet most of the great volunteers (who are really the core of the race) will not change either.


Perhaps it would be soothing (or not) to point out to those who are disturbed by the name change that for the first three years, during which the very legacy they value was in its formative phase, the race was't called Ironman anything, it was the "Canadian International Ultra Triathlon". I have as much nostalgia for the Ironman Canada moniker as the next person - all my schwag has those words on it, but it's really about the town, the people, the course and the surroundings, not the label. In a similar vein, Subaru is a great sponsor, but so was Timex, and before them so were the beer companies. The race transcends its name.
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [dgunthert] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
It is the history of that race and what it meant to Ironman before Ironman became the corporate brand that everyone loves/hates.

Ironman Canada was there from the start, in fact you might say it had a huge role in making ironman (the distance) what it is today because it was more accessible to the masses on continental North Americans before the sport exploded long before it became a brand exploited by the WTC.

Regardless of race experience Ironman will continue to be the pinnacle of the sport thanks to the brand and to Kona. Ironman the brand is to the sport what Boston is to marathons, what the Yankees are to baseball.

Losing any of those iconic institutions would have a long lasting impact on the sport as will the loss of Ironman Canada.


Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [rbuike] [ In reply to ]
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Hey Rodney, I respect your position on this. History is important. Legacy is important. This race has both under the Ironman brand. 30 years worth after tomorrow

I will say after spending some time earlier today with Felix and city staff at the Siccamous (spell?) I honestly could not be more excited for the community. there is a real empowered feeling I got from the members of council and a few of the resident staff that were there. If I was to place my finger on what I took back was, for the last few years they felt taken advantage of by WTC and without voice. They were also quite clear to distance Graham Fraser from that. Their respect for him was made very clear. And, from what I have read in the press leading into this week, Graham didn't exactly walk away. Sounds more forced away by WTC. What I sense going forward with the Challenge Family (BTW: that is their brand, "family") partnership in place is; as Felix said to me in our discussion, "they own the decisions. They keep the money. It is not a fly in, put on a production, fly out with the cash" arrangement. Penticton therefore feels they now have control over a key annual tourist venture. They now have voice. Of course with that is HUGE responsibility!

I think it is important to look to Roth as to what is possible. Roth used to be the Ironman European Championships before they went it alone. Look at the success of that race as a measuring stick. In 10 years it has created its own history, its own legacy. That won't happen next year for Penticton and I anticipate a reduction in participation in the first year, but I am excited for 'what's possible!'

Yes I will say in does sadden me that the brand of IMC is gone and that is final. IMC can only be this race. I get the history, the legacy, and I respect that as an athlete. I duly respect that this is a community decision for the betterment of their community, and I personally feel that takes greater importance. I hope it works for them because this community deserves that. It really is one of the best parts of Canada.

For now it is feet up and relax. I get to do the 30th, and final, Ironman Canada tomorrow!

BIB: 1124.

@rhyspencer
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Re: IMC rumor [rhys] [ In reply to ]
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Hey Rhys....just wanted to say good luck at IMC. Enjoy the day.
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Re: IMC rumor [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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What about this new ironman Canada that was announced with a flyer under the hotel door
Says they are 'changing course'. And offering a link to active.com for a preferred registration list available till aug 30.
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Re: IMC rumor [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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hey Dev,

thanks mate! I am pretty excited! I freaking love it here and everything it provides.

@rhyspencer
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Re: IMC rumor [ShawnF] [ In reply to ]
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In the BC Lower Mainland the rumour mill since early spring, was that IMC was moving to Whistler.....but Kelowna also came up.....no smoke without fire ?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>X
If you run long enough....something is bound to happen
Last edited by: TriTrev: Aug 25, 12 19:01
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Re: IMC rumor [rhys] [ In reply to ]
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Best wishes to everyone tomorrow who is racing for an incredible day. Environment Canada is forecasting a high tomorrow of 31 (close to 88 degrees for our American friends) Stay hydrated and stay fast ! Have a great race.!
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Re: IMC rumor [Pentictonite] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting email I just got:

"IRONMAN Volunteers and Athletes,

IRONMAN is saddened to confirm that Penticton, Canada, has chosen to not move forward as the host for the 2013 edition of IRONMAN® Canada. We hoped that IRONMAN Canada would continue in the City of Penticton, which has served as the host of the race for 30 years, and that the relationship between IRONMAN and the city would continue indefinitely.

As IRONMAN continues to finalize details, we would like to offer the following opportunity for 2012 IRONMAN Canada volunteers, as well as all athletes who have previously raced IRONMAN Canada:

IRONMAN is aggressively pursuing multiple options, as our goal is to have IRONMAN Canada in 2013. By clicking here, volunteers and athletes will be put on a preferred registration list for the new IRONMAN Canada, tentatively slated for late August/early September 2013. Please note: you must complete the entire process and click “submit” to confirm your place on the registration list. Access to this link is available for a limited period of time, between Aug. 25 at noon PT and Aug. 30 at midnight PT. The preferred list will give volunteers and athletes one week (in advance of general proposed registration) to sign up for the new IRONMAN Canada event. Additional race and registration details will be announced during the week of the 2012 IRONMAN World Championship, which takes place on Oct. 13.

IRONMAN is pursuing multiple unique venue options for the new IRONMAN Canada race and is excited to build upon the long-standing tradition of IRONMAN Canada as one of the most iconic races in the global IRONMAN Series. The new race, tentatively scheduled for late August/early September 2013, will feature double the amount of age group slots for the IRONMAN World Championship, an increase from 50 to 100 slots, as well as an increase in KPR points and prize money for professional athletes.

As an additional race option, general entry for IRONMAN Mont-Tremblant, IRONMAN Coeur d’Alene, and Memorial Hermann IRONMAN Texas is also still available. Visit www.ironman.com to register.

Thank you for your continued support of IRONMAN, and we hope to see you at another IRONMAN race soon! If you have any questions, please contact Canada@ironman.com.

-- The IRONMAN team"

****Note the increase in Kona slots, wow, right back to the original 100 IMC used to offer.****

I bet: Whistler, with Calgary as a close 2nd, and IMMT as a 3rd option.

Oh and back to tomorrow's race - I hope everyone has a FANTASTIC day out there! Enjoy your day and your accomplishments.

AP

------------------------
"How bad could it be?" - SimpleS
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Re: IMC rumor [rhayden] [ In reply to ]
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There's the link to Active.com in the email...

AP

------------------------
"How bad could it be?" - SimpleS
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Re: IMC rumor [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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After some thought, I've decided to sign up for Challenge Penticton 2013, my first iron distance tri. I had planned on signing up for IMC 2013, but was surprised by the change, so I had to take some time to think about it.

My reasons for signing up are: after racing Olys and Halfs for four years, I'm ready and want to do a full distance tri next year; the course and Penticton are more important to me than the organizer or brand; I'm hearing good things about Challenge and believe they'll run a good event; I don't have any attachment to Ironman/WTC, and in some respects dislike the brand.

The only downside is that there won't be Kona slots available, but for a first iron distance tri, it may be a blessing in disguise not to push myself that hard. If I have a good race next year and my wife hasn't divorced me after all the training, maybe I will sign up for an IM some other time and try to KQ.

None of this will change my attitude to volunteering tomorrow. I realize I don't need to volunteer to ensure registration. I rode the bike course today, and I'll be registering Monday, so I'm here anyway and want to help. I'll be wetsuit stripping. Should be interesting!

Good luck, everyone who's racing tomorrow.

Graham Barron Design: Custom west coast house design http://www.grahambarron.com/
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Re: IMC rumor [AndyPants] [ In reply to ]
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There was an earlier version of this email that I got (I got your version about 30 minutes later). The relevant difference is that they were going to offer preferred access to IM AZ, WI, and FL... but they removed that paragraph in the second email. Bummer.

IRONMAN Athletes,

IRONMAN is saddened to confirm that Penticton, Canada, has chosen to not move forward as the host for the 2013 edition of IRONMAN® Canada. We hoped that IRONMAN Canada would continue in the City of Penticton, which has served as the host of the race for 30 years, and that the relationship between IRONMAN and the city would continue indefinitely.

As IRONMAN continues to finalize details, we would like to offer the following opportunity for all athletes racing this weekend’s IRONMAN Canada:

IRONMAN is aggressively pursuing multiple options, as our goal is to have IRONMAN Canada in 2013. By clicking here, volunteers and athletes will be put on a preferred registration list for the new IRONMAN Canada, tentatively slated for late August/early September 2013. Please note: you must complete the entire process and click “submit” to confirm your place on the registration list. Access to this link is available for a limited period of time, between Aug. 25, 2012 at noon PT and Aug. 30 at midnight PT. The preferred list will give volunteers and athletes one week (in advance of general proposed registration) to sign up for the new IRONMAN Canada event. Additional race and registration details will be announced during the week of the 2012 IRONMAN World Championship, which takes place on Oct. 13.

IRONMAN is pursuing multiple unique venue options for the new IRONMAN Canada race and is excited to build upon the long-standing tradition of IRONMAN Canada as one of the most iconic races in the global IRONMAN Series. The new race, tentatively scheduled for late August/early September 2013, will feature double the amount of age group slots for the IRONMAN World Championship, an increase from 50 to 100 slots, as well as an increase in KPR points and prize money for professional athletes.

To ensure athletes have multiple race options to accomplish their IRONMAN goals, 2012 IRONMAN Canada athletes will be granted preferred access into 2013 IRONMAN Wisconsin, 2013 IRONMAN Arizona and 2013 IRONMAN Florida. Athletes will automatically be included on preferred lists for all three races and will be sent additional passwords and links 48 hours before each of these events open for registration. These races generally sell-out in less than 24 hours.

General entry for IRONMAN Mont-Tremblant, IRONMAN Coeur d’Alene, and Memorial Hermann IRONMAN Texas is also still available. Visit www.ironman.com to register.

Thank you for your continued support of IRONMAN, and we hope to see you at another IRONMAN race soon! If you have any questions, please contact Canada@ironman.com.

-- The IRONMAN team
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Re: IMC rumor [iamlindoro] [ In reply to ]
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Check the intro to your emails - One email was to current (2012) participants, one was to former participants
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Re: IMC rumor [AndyPants] [ In reply to ]
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"I bet: Whistler, with Calgary as a close 2nd, and IMMT as a 3rd option. "

Are you suggesting they would possible simply rebrand IMMT as IMC and we won't notice? .

Also kind of interesting that three of their five American/Canadian races that have opened for next year are still open for general entry and the other two (LP and LT) still have foundation slots. Too many races? Or are numbers finally dropping?
Last edited by: sinkinswimmer: Aug 26, 12 9:59
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Re: IMC rumor [sinkinswimmer] [ In reply to ]
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I think it has become an over supply and under demand. At some point there is a tipping point and I think we are there. Also just because certain races sell out does not mean that you should put on more races.

We will see how things go because I think Challenge Penticton will see more participant than the new IMC will every year even if they offer more at the new IMC.

AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

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Re: IMC rumor [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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BMANX wrote:
I think it has become an over supply and under demand. At some point there is a tipping point and I think we are there. Also just because certain races sell out does not mean that you should put on more races.

We will see how things go because I think Challenge Penticton will see more participant than the new IMC will every year even if they offer more at the new IMC.

I think you're overestimating Penticton and underestimating having Ironman in the name. Challenge Penticton will not outsell the new IMC unless they allow 5000 registrations like Roth - which I don't think is possible in Penticton due to a lack of accommodations. I know there's legacy and history at Penticton but most participants don't give a shit about that.

2020 Races:
Ironman 70.3 Musselman, Ironman 70.3 Panama, Ironman Chattanooga, Ironman Arizona

Favorite Gear: Dimond | TriRig | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
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Re: IMC rumor [GMAN19030] [ In reply to ]
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Many will agree with me and many will agree with you so we will see how it plays out. I think you are underestimating the power of 30 years of history vs some undisclosed new location. Whistler would be a fail as far as I am concerned as I have raced up there before and raced in Penticton. Penticton is a far better race site.

I think you are starting to see the power or Ironman and racing not selling out. Ironman is not the name it used to be.

AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

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Re: IMC rumor [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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BMANX wrote:
Many will agree with me and many will agree with you so we will see how it plays out. I think you are underestimating the power of 30 years of history vs some undisclosed new location. Whistler would be a fail as far as I am concerned as I have raced up there before and raced in Penticton. Penticton is a far better race site.

I think you are starting to see the power or Ironman and racing not selling out. Ironman is not the name it used to be.

Only here on Slowtwitch. Also on Slowtwitch everyone wants Lance hung. It is amazing that in my day to day life, most people that I have interacted with at work and in my community knowing that I am an endurance athlete have asked about Lance and pretty well everyone thinks it is a witch hunt. Just reporting back about the general population, not what "informed guys on ST think".

Likewise, the general population at work has no clue about Penticton but they know about Ironman. Lots of these first timers would rather sign up for an "official Ironman event". Call them Mdot lemmings, but they have no clue what Challenge is.

Last week we had this example at Mont Tremblant. It sold out. Massive success. The organizers of the Esprit in Montreal and Canadian in Ottawa have put on around 30 edits of their Iron distance races between them and barely gotten over 100 people in that time. Now granted that Penticton has 30 years of history of being "THE IRONMAN" in Canada, but for the new athlete (and each Mdot event usually has 1000), they have no clue of Penticton's history.

Personally I want both events to sell out in time. I don't need them to sell out instantly, I'd like to see both sell out by next April or so....that way organizers get their revenue and athletes have open choices that don't need to be made 1 year out...everyone wins. Instant sellouts are really bad for athletes.
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Re: IMC rumor [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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BMANX wrote:


I think you are starting to see the power or Ironman and racing not selling out. Ironman is not the name it used to be.


I'm not buying it.

IMAZ sold out in 9 minutes. IMFL sold out in 20 minutes. Races that normally sell out quickly still sell out quickly. Races that take awhile to sell (like CdA, Lou, TX) still take some time to sell out. They shitcanned IMSG for good reason. The AUS races sell out in minutes. Euro races sell out in minutes. So on and so forth.

I think everyone is putting too much stock into the IMNY debacle. That was a logistical nightmare from the get go. WTC definitely screwed the pooch on that one. They got a little full of themselves with that race for sure and it bit them in the ass in a big way. It sold out like it did for 2012 because people weren't aware of the complicated logistics at the time. If you need a 7 page document to explain how people get to transition and the race start then it's way too complicated. The price was also a factor but I think the logistics was a far bigger factor in the lack of repeat or first time customers. I think people can stomach the price because everything is going to be more expensive in NY. Nobody wants to wake up at 3am to catch seventeen ferries or shuttles or whatever before you can start the damn race. WTC asked way too much of their customers at IMNY and the customers said "Bite me!" That just hasn't been the case at other races.

2020 Races:
Ironman 70.3 Musselman, Ironman 70.3 Panama, Ironman Chattanooga, Ironman Arizona

Favorite Gear: Dimond | TriRig | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
Last edited by: GMAN19030: Aug 26, 12 14:00
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Re: IMC rumor [GMAN19030] [ In reply to ]
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x2

How many people have heard about an Iron distance race in Kalmar, Sweden before it became Ironman Sweden? I know I didn't. I'm going to do it next year because WTC had put on a map for me to consider as one of the races that I want to do in Europe. For the record, I've also done a non-WTC iron distance race.

I know Canadians love Penticton, but the rest of the world don't care. Are future Ironmans going to travel from the U.S, in large amount, for a race called Challenge Penticton? I don't think so. They will, however, do it for a race call Ironman Canada ... no matter where it is.

GMAN19030 wrote:
BMANX wrote:
I think it has become an over supply and under demand. At some point there is a tipping point and I think we are there. Also just because certain races sell out does not mean that you should put on more races.

We will see how things go because I think Challenge Penticton will see more participant than the new IMC will every year even if they offer more at the new IMC.


I think you're overestimating Penticton and underestimating having Ironman in the name. Challenge Penticton will not outsell the new IMC unless they allow 5000 registrations like Roth - which I don't think is possible in Penticton due to a lack of accommodations. I know there's legacy and history at Penticton but most participants don't give a shit about that.


__________________________________________________________________________
My marathon PR is "under three, high twos. I had a two hour and fifty-something."
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Re: IMC rumor [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
BMANX wrote:
I think you are starting to see the power or Ironman and racing not selling out. Ironman is not the name it used to be.


Only here on Slowtwitch. Also on Slowtwitch everyone wants Lance hung. It is amazing that in my day to day life, most people that I have interacted with at work and in my community knowing that I am an endurance athlete have asked about Lance and pretty well everyone thinks it is a witch hunt. Just reporting back about the general population, not what "informed guys on ST think".

Likewise, the general population at work has no clue about Penticton but they know about Ironman. Lots of these first timers would rather sign up for an "official Ironman event". Call them Mdot lemmings, but they have no clue what Challenge is.


Agree, within the US at least - for first-timer iron-distance racers, Ironman branded events are like those mosquito lights to mosquitos - people will flock to them (and there's nothing wrong about that, despite what folks here might argue).

The challenge (no pun intended) is that it's easy for us here to argue the difference between the different race brands - but outside of this very very very small circle - nobody knows about Challenge, Rev3 or Lifetime. Not ma and pa kettle that watch by the sidelines each year from in front of thier farm. All they know is the 'Ironman' name, they likely don't even know what the distance are. They know a bunch of cyclists or runners go bumbling by each year, they cheer and write 'Go Ironman!' on the sidewalk in chalk, potentially throw a few tacs out, and that's it. All the local/legacy stuff/politics honestly only matters to locals, and a extremely small sliver of folks here on ST. If you polled 100 follks crossing the finish line tonight at IMC, I'm guessing 90-95% of them would say they were overall happy with how the event went today.

From a accomadations standpoint - Penticton simply can't hold 5,000 athletes + family. Anybody who says that hasn't been there. It doesn't matter what brand we're talking about. They can barely hold the athletes today for IMC, at half those numbers - and that only because the concentration of local athletes driving in the area helps tremdendously. You're likely pretty close to maximizing the 'available local athletes' bucket out, so the difference between 2.5K and 5.0K will have to be out of towners. Try finding a hotel within an hour or two for that race week today - no luck except for a small handful of T-60 day cancellations (mostly through word of mouth).

I'm looking forward to both races succeding - but there has to be a dose of realism in there.


-
My tiny little slice of the internets: dcrainmaker.com
Last edited by: dcrainmaker: Aug 26, 12 14:25
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Re: IMC rumor [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Why do you think IMMT has not sold out yet?

.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
Quote Reply
Re: IMC rumor [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
Last week we had this example at Mont Tremblant. It sold out. Massive success. The organizers of the Esprit in Montreal and Canadian in Ottawa have put on around 30 edits of their Iron distance races between them and barely gotten over 100 people in that time. Now granted that Penticton has 30 years of history of being "THE IRONMAN" in Canada, but for the new athlete (and each Mdot event usually has 1000), they have no clue of Penticton's history.

You may be right. I'd be curious about the actual numbers though. How many of the participants for IMMT and Tahoe are previous IM finishers who are just jumping on the challenge and novelty of a brand new location? For that matter, how many are competing in their first IM but have been around triathlons for a few years? Do those two races, for this year, have the same number of "one and done' folks that the other races typically have? Those first two categories of participants are the ones that are more likely to know the history of IMC and/or want to support CP just to see WTC get some competition.

I'm definitely one of those. I had never really given IMC much thought before. I did IMLP to check my "do a challenging IM course" box. The IM experience wasn't enough to bring me to that particular location over another. By nearly all accounts, the Challenge races are fantastic, so it would be a very different, and possibly superior, experience to an IM race. For that reason and because I'd very much like to see another strong competitor to WTC, I'm seriously considering CP. One thing is pretty certain: my next 140.6 will be a Rev3, Challenge, or even HITS race.

Random thought: I think the biggest disservice that the RD's looking to compete with WTC ever did to themselves was not come up with a consistent name for the distance that everyone could use. All one did by using the name "Iron distance" was broadcast the fact that one was not an Ironman race. Rev3 is understandably and unfortunately doing the same thing with its Full Rev and Half Rev terminology.
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Re: IMC rumor [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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Dave,

IM Tremblant does not just fill out with athletes within 3-4 hours of driving distance. There just are not enough. Last year it took several weeks. There were International athletes from 47 countries. It takes time for all those guys to make plans, book summer vacation and book flights. It will sell out in time as it did last year. I'm not exactly sure where you are going with constantly pointing out that it is not sold out (not like I care, it's not like I have shares in the race ownership). But it DID eventually sell out because it was a WTC series race even though it was a first year event.

Penticton is not a first year event. It is 31 years old next year. It can sell out with a Challenge logo, but if IMC had never existed till now and some one came up with the idea of doing a full distance race there, it would not sell out. As such, WTC can drop an Mdot series race in Whistler or Calgary and have a very good chance of selling out, only because athletes trust that the company can put on a top notch race for 2000 athletes. For the 1000 first timers per race, they will generaly go do an Mdot race in Whistler or Calgary over a Challenge race in Penticton. It is imporant to them to have the Mdot logo. Many of you may not like that, but this is reality.

Frankly if Challenge chose to put on a new race in Mont Tremblant, I'd have sat it out for a year, and watched how things shook out. But wtih WTC putting it on, I had solid confidence. I am more than willing to roll the dice with $80-$150 for a local olympic or half Ironman.

For an Ironman, I have 1 shot in a year. I don't mind dropping $500-$800 on entry fees, but I want confidence that I will be taken care of and the little details will be addressed well. For that, I have confidence (in general) that WTC will do a good job in a totally new venue. In the case of Penticton I am pretty sure that Challenge will do an awesome job because they are using the same volunteers, but I'm a bit more in the know about how the tri industry works than your average 1st time participant.

Dev
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Re: IMC rumor [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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my own hope is that sometime in the next couple of years the Town of Penticton and WTC come to the conclusion that they are better off with each other than going their separate ways. Then IMC will once again be held in Penticton.

I live in western Canada. I've done IMC 5 times since 2005 and have been there every year since 2004 to watch and volunteer (and wear my costume and run with competitors up yellow lakes) when I was not racing. Penticton puts on a phenomenal IM. LUV it.

and I may return someday to do a challenge race, but not for sure. I would for sure return if IMC was there.

Call me selfish, but I am not happy about the change from IMC to Challenge in Penticton. And while WTC deserves the kick in the pants that Penticton has given it (really desrves it) the end result does not please me.

Grant

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Re: IMC rumor [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Dev, I do not understand your comments that if it is a WTC race, all the little details will be addressed. WTC does not have a staff of experts who going around the world setting up and running races. For most, if not all, they HIRE an RD to run the race. I remember a number of WTC races that did not go well and WTC gave entry into others races, etc. So, if WTC hires a RD that does not do the job, it will have issues just like any RD for any company who does not do the job. So far I am not aware who the RD for IMLT is going to be, but again, there are not a RD that is 100% WTC staff that does this. And if they hire a RD with a bad track record and their are issues, who or what will really be the fault?

So, if I really wanted a race that all the little details were handled, WHO is the RD of the race is much more important than what title is on it.

.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: IMC rumor [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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Dave, what I am saying is that I generally trust WTC over other race organizations to take care of details. They may not hit all, but they will generally hit most as they have the overal corporate experience and can pull from event organizers from all their successful events to assist a local RD to get it right on the first shot at a new venue. Sure, there is room for improvement ALWAYs but generally I will trust WTC to converge towards success. Sometimes they can screw it up when they take on an ambitious project like NYC, but when they put on a 70.3 or 140.6 in a resort community that fits the blueprint of their generally successful business model, I'll be expecting them to make things successful. I'm not the only one thinking that way. 1000 new Ironman athletes at every venue generally feel that if they sign up for an event that has an Mdot logo, this is what they will get.

Challenge is "up against" the branding that WTC has established in North America for 3 decades when it comes to selling to the 1000 new athletes that are generally needed to get every race to 2500 athletes. WTC has done a great job in "selling the dream" of becoming an Ironman to the "general" public (vs ST hard core athletes). That's what Challenge is up against. Fortunately they have the 30 year legacy of Penticton to accelerate things. If they were just dropping a race into Tahoe, Tremblant, Kelowna or Whistler, it would be a much harder uphill battle for them to gain sellouts than jumping into Penticton. Good on Challenge for scooping up Penticton. Competion is a good thing for the market. In the end, I think all of us triathletes will gain.
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Re: IMC rumor [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Dev, I agree with you that WTC with the money should have better odds to put on a better race. I have nothing against WTC or any race. I just go to where I can find the best competition, the closest and the least amount of money. After that, unless I have really been burned, I go. Even though I have yet to go to a race that was perfect, there is not a race I will not do.

.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: IMC rumor [GMAN19030] [ In reply to ]
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IMAZ sold out in 9 minutes. IMFL sold out in 20 minutes

________

I am editing my comment out. Upon reading it, clearly after gutting out an Ironman and chugging back two pints of Kilkenney I was writing more from heart there than my head and it came across rather harsh.

Today was great and congrats to all finishers.







@rhyspencer
Last edited by: rhys: Aug 27, 12 6:28
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Re: IMC rumor [rhys] [ In reply to ]
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rhys wrote:
"If consumers are that stupid to buy a $700 ticket to something without knowing where it is or when, well, good for them. Just hope they don't expect a dinner invite. I don't much like stupid people."

Today was great and congrats to all finishers.


How about those stupid people who assume that WTC was asking for $700 for an unknown race, and those that start labeling others as "stupid" because they cannot in fact read? Way to jump to conclusions.

WTC was asking for an expression of interest and offering a preference to sign up for the event, if and when announced. No payment was required.

"...volunteers and athletes will be put on a preferred registration list for the new IRONMAN Canada, tentatively slated for late August/early September 2013. Please note: you must complete the entire process and click “submit” to confirm your place on the registration list. Access to this link is available for a limited period of time, between Aug. 25 at noon PT and Aug. 30 at midnight PT. The preferred list will give volunteers and athletes one week (in advance of general proposed registration) to sign up for the new IRONMAN Canada event. "
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Re: IMC rumor [rhys] [ In reply to ]
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Rhys, congrats on your race and finishing the last "IMC" as we know it. Solid day out there! I think a guy like you will benefit more when this is Challenge series. With a strong swim and bike you're out ahead of the Tour de France train to Richter doing all the work by yourself. Once it is Challenge, there will be less of that. Less guys swimming 1:05-1:15 who will put down those blazing run splits (Just commenting on the current dynamic of the density on the bike in the race, not anyone in particular swimming in that range).

Anyway, well done, and yes, I did the advanced "expression of interest" sign up for the future WTC event....it still hurts to call it IMC though. I hope they call it something else like IM Whistler or IM Calgary. It would be a travesty to call this new one IMC.

Dev
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Re: IMC rumor [rhys] [ In reply to ]
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rhys wrote:
IMAZ sold out in 9 minutes. IMFL sold out in 20 minutes

________

because those courses are easy.

St. George on the other hand.....

this WTC email is quite frankly, embarrassingly amateur. If consumers are that stupid to buy a $700 ticket to something without knowing where it is or when, well, good for them. Just hope they don't expect a dinner invite. I don't much like stupid people.


Today was great and congrats to all finishers.


Way to cherry pick. How about IMWI & IMLP. Those races also sell out quickly. Are those easy?

StG suffered because of several factors: 1) it was hard, 2) it was early season, and 3) it's in the middle of nowhere. It would've struggled regardless of it being hard or easy. WTC made the right move canning that race. The announcement to shut it down was prescient given what happened the day of the race. Very few people would've registered for that race next year had it not been put in the grave.

Someone else pointed out the fallacy of the rest of your statement so I won't go there.

2020 Races:
Ironman 70.3 Musselman, Ironman 70.3 Panama, Ironman Chattanooga, Ironman Arizona

Favorite Gear: Dimond | TriRig | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
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Re: IMC rumor [lostinT2] [ In reply to ]
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I've edited my post upon reflection.

@rhyspencer
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Re: IMC rumor [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks Dev,

re: this WTC mess. Clearly I am on the side that they screwed this up and the email the eve of the race was just another tipping point for me, as a consumer, that in my opinion they've lost the plot. That is my opinion. Which ain't worth much.

Thanks again Penticton!

@rhyspencer
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Re: IMC rumor [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
Tour de France train to Richter

As an aside. I didn't see a single train this year when I saw a couple in years past. One dude was drafting so blatantly it was funny but no trains at all that I noticed.


"the trick is to keep losing weight until your friends and family ask you if you've been sick. then you know you're within 10 pounds. if they start whispering to each other, wondering if you've got cancer or aids, you're within 5. when they actually do an intervention, you're at race weight." - Slowman
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Re: IMC rumor [redtdi] [ In reply to ]
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redtdi wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
Tour de France train to Richter


As an aside. I didn't see a single train this year when I saw a couple in years past. One dude was drafting so blatantly it was funny but no trains at all that I noticed.

yes. actually to add comment to that. I was thinking riding all the way to Richter's that my swim must have been so shit that I lost the plot completely as I was completely solo. I passed maybe a dozen riders, again all solo, one by one. I only found a rather small pack on Richter's, then rode with 5 riders to the out and back (including Janelle Morrison which was amazing to see. What a great story), then that was it. Solo from there all the way to town.

I think the potential reason could be the expansion into the US of races and the timing of IMC to Kona as well as the 50 spots, quite a few fast guys pick other races to try and qualify.

@rhyspencer
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Re: IMC rumor [GMAN19030] [ In reply to ]
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Not sure if I buy it. I think it still comes down to a numbers game.

How many athletes want to do a full distance race, and how many races are there for them to do.

B2B and Vineman I think do pretty well, but think if there was another race or two in New England, IMLP would probably not sell out.

Did Sopranoman sell out because it was a "great" or "desirable" race, or was there a large population who thought it was convenient and they would not have to spend thousands traveling?

Conversely, look at the 70.3 series. Mooseman? Gone? Rhode Island? Gone? Timberman not selling out

WTC has two things going for them. The biggest is Kona, and there are still bucketlisters who are itching for this race, and pair that with limited stock of races, i.e. for the North American community, how many races are their and how many triathletes?

Challenge may not have the name here in the States, yet, but if they can create something like Roth and add a few more, then that will be some competition.

Rev 3 runs all their own races, and is focused on the athlete experience. They did well with Portland and turned that race around after a snafu with a town that pulled out, and I see them adding more races annually, and getting a full distance in New England I think would address a huge need. Could also see them in Cali and a few other locations.

I did Tremblant because of the venue and closeness. LP is technically closer, but think the roads are shot currently and did not want to deal with paying resort accomondation prices for Motel rooms. Looking at the IM Map, St George actually was an appealing race to me, just not crazy about the date given most of my training for such an event would be in the snow of New England. Have no interest in IMFL, IMAZ, IMKY, CDA

Wisconsin maybe, Texas maybe, Tahoe looks interesting, but like Canada, a lot of traveling for me, which I would rather save the money.

There are what, 10 WTC IM races in North America currently?

Would be very interesting to see if WTC puts another race in Western Canada with Challenge now there how the races sell.

One advantage WTC has compared to B2B and some other independent long distance races is awareness. Someone decides they want to do an Ironman, they look, see a bunch of races and select. It takes a little more effort to look outside. As Rev 3 grows, hopefully adds some more full races, they appear to be making a headway for people to start looking and seeing what other races they have to offer.

Would Mooseman still be around if Quassy was not there?

It is apparent to me that the WTC is very profit conscious and once a race starts loosing money, it is not long for the WTC. Think Poconos will survive a couple more years in its time slot? Poconos is only 70% full with 5 weeks left, and not sure how much of that was because of deep discount offerings. Forget the deal I saw on Active a while back, but the Half was steeply discounted.

WTC still has a stranglehold on the full distance in North America, but I think Challenge gives them a run for their money in Europe and if Felix can get one or two races in the US and Canada and get one of these to be like Roth, then those sell out numbers will get longer and longer to hit
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