The URL bombed for me.........

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</*I'm not slow, I'm a better than average Clydesdale*\>

[reply]The URL bombed for me.........[/reply]

Moi aussi.

Signed...

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

I signed - and I sent it to several friends to also sign.

thanks all! the more the better.

What do I win for signing in the top 10? ;)

I saw the petition and was signing it then it occurred to me:

• If WTC offers refunds then there may be an eneormous influx of people entering the races just to "hold a place" without being entirely commited to the race. This would likely create big issues for WTC and the sport in general. Even if there were a stipulation that a refund is only granted in an emergency I wager people would become pretty creative in manufacturing emergencies and the required documentation if they had a $450 motive to do so. What do you think about that issue? I apologize if this was already covered.
• I'm concerned about refund processing and the attendant costs driving up entry fees and making the entry process even more difficult and convoluted. I wonder if a refund option may cause that to happen.
• The removal of Kona qualifiying spots from Florida 1/2 (did they also pull them from St. Croix?) is a valid complaint, especially (and obviously) for athletes who were going to Florida 1/2 specifically to try to qualify for Kona. I wager that group is in the minority though. My point is, that seems like a seperate issue from the broader issue of a refund policy.

Again, I apologize if these topics were already covered. I was very busy over the last two days and couldn't devote much time to the forum. Any help on these matters is appreciated.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

 
Maybe your cause is just and its your right to petition, but don't you have a reputation for 'not showing up to events' that you have registered for?
You sited death in the family in your petition, but I've already seen IMNA transfer an event entry to someone that experienced a direct family member death. Not a refund, but a chance to compete in the event again the following year. That's a reasonable policy they already have.

Look at some of the signature lines of the people that have shown support of this petition. One guy openly hates the government which supports him. That guy's wearing his lack of character in his signature. Hatred is no good for anyone. You want to be associated with hatred?

Good luck with your petition. you'll need it. Did you try to enter your name twice in the petition? Isn't this a little self-serving?

I don't believe that Florida 70.3 ever had slots for Kona. Last JULY, when the whole 70.3 World Championship thing was announced, they made it very clear that there the Florida 70.3 would not have slots for Kona. Also, when they announced the races that would have Kona slots for 2006, Florida 70.3 was not one of them. St. Croix 70.3 always had slots and still has their slots, as does the California 70.3

Finally, for all the people talking about the need for new WTC and IMNA websites, I believe that WTC does have a new website in the works. I have no idea what is going to be different, but they have been touting it on the ironmanlive.com website.

Francois, I doubt Ironman "improvement" will be born out of a petition. IMNA's business model is working for them and 20,000 athletes a year. Myself included, even at the wopping $1,000 community spot price to be able enter an already closed race. (and a tax deductable contribution and the option to transfer if something goes wrong) Some of us like the unparalleled quality of product we receive from IMNA, and we are willing to either pay dearly, or sign up a year in advance. No, I don't have excess money laying around and the rest of the trip will be TopRamen level to offset, but it's worth it to me.

Until a credible RD like the Challenge folks come along and create a viable alternative at the same level of quality race production, there is no reason for IMNA to change. And change what? Some of us think it's working just fine. I like the high $$ deterent to withdrawal. If the penalty was only $50 or $100 I'd sign up for 3-5 races a year and pick the one or two that aligned with my fitness. Is that fair to the person who wants to do one of those races but I've economically blocked them?

The Challenge race in New Zealand next year does look like an interesting possibility and expansion of a great organization. Maybe 2007 will see them put on a race in the US.

But good luck in your efforts toward positive change in our sport! And thank you for pushing the dialog.

The other quality races are there. The issue isn't with the lack of quality races since Duke, Silverman, Roth, and others have shown they can put on some serious quality events. The issue is with the lemmings who can't think for themselves and perceive an "IRONMAN" branded race to be the best. That simply isn't the case. But until all the lemmings smarten up and stop signing up a year in advance and selling the races out instantly, I doubt it will change.
Mark

I've raced both branded and unbranded races over the last 18 years. I don't feel the quality is comparable. Go to IMCanada or New Zealand, and then do Vineman/Duke/Silverman/Ultramax. Most choose to not spend their time and money on another sub-par race, so they go back to the top-notch and consistent product delivered by IMNA. 20,000 other lemmings annually agree with my perception. Roth is comparable and I hope that race organization expands and provides a viable alternative. Duke? I don't see Duke on the calendar for 2006? Why? The quality of product is not comparable so they didn't get the #s. Check their website, even the Duke RD tips his hat to the WTC/IMNA quality of race. Provide a QUALITY alternative and people will sign up. Personally, I'll keep my fingers crossed for Challenge USA in 2007, until then, I'm shopping at IMNA.

This is funny! Whats next, a petition to be treated like a Diva at an IMNA event with a private jet, limo, and all white flowers in your room? Ive been very happy with every IMNA event I have participated in. Its all Supply and Demand, no one is forcing me or anyone else to sign up.

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SUPPORT OPERATION REBOUND:
http://www.operationreboundcalifornia.kintera.org/ejs3

Kestrel Syndicate
Macca Fan Club

I have never asked for a refund when I couldn't race because of an injury.

You're not forced to sign either

Francois... why are you so adament about this? Have you covered this already ?? You don't even have the problem since you usually sign up as 'pro' anyway, so you don't have to register a year in advance. I have read most of the threads on this and I can't figure out why you are so pumped about this. Please point me to where I missed why you are championing this cause.



Trev

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Trev Williams
http://www.thedoctrine.ca

I think that there are also a lot of people who go to a race for this very reason - even though they are unprepared, injured, etc. It could be argued that this is both dangerous to other competitors and to the participant themselves. I think allowing withdrawl also allows people who are unsuited to race the chance to withdrawl with less penalty and therefore would provide a higher-caliber racing field.

How about offering a partial refund (say $250-$350 of the $450) up until 8 wks before the race (for any reason), and then reopening the slots to a waiting list or another first come first served registration? Since it is a simple refund, and a re-registration, it should not be hard to administrate over the web with little or no human interaction.

The race would still be full, and those that could not commit the year before (or got shut out), but are still 8 wks away from being in shape, could have an opportunity to race.

This must be too simple and easy to work. Right?

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This is your life, and it's ending one minute at a time. - Fight Club
Industry Brat.

Personally, I am amazed that people have a problem with Francois trying to get a company to improve their customer service. You people are really ok losing $300US if you can't race? If you want to throw your money away I have some stuff for sale too.

Indeed...most of the time with an elite licence, you can have your entry transferred somewhere else. Second, you can enter whenever or close to whenever you like. (I guess that answers the poster that said it was self-serving...)

I am doing it, because I think it's right. Maybe it's a Euro thing though. Here, it's seems to be split between good idea/stupid idea. In Europe, it seems to be a no brainer.

You think that asking for a more substantial refund than 1/3 of the entry that you have paid a full year in advance, and having a waiting list is asking for a diva treatment?
Is life so hard in Illinois?

I don't think that customer service is based on policies of the company as long as you given the policy in advance clearly. How is this different than cancellation policy of airlines and hotels? Some of those can be super harsh and seem unfair but when you give them your credit card you agree to the terms and conditions. It just seems silly to go on about this when they have made it clear they have their reason (if you agree or not) for doing it the way they do.

Are there races, specifically IM distance, that allow options like the transfer of registration, full refunds etc? If so, what races? If not, why should IMNA? I don't know of any of the races I have raced that allow it.

[reply]I don't think that customer service is based on policies of the company as long as you given the policy in advance clearly. How is this different than cancellation policy of airlines and hotels? Some of those can be super harsh and seem unfair but when you give them your credit card you agree to the terms and conditions. It just seems silly to go on about this when they have made it clear they have their reason (if you agree or not) for doing it the way they do.

Are there races, specifically IM distance, that allow options like the transfer of registration, full refunds etc? If so, what races? If not, why should IMNA? I don't know of any of the races I have raced that allow it.[/reply]

Good points. However, all I am saying is that IF your customer base does relay to the vendor/manufacturer/company, they would like to have X changed in their product and the numbers are significant, would it not be prudent to listen to that customer base and re-examine the way you do business. This is all the petition is, a way to guage how many people feel the same way as some of us do. What is so wrong with that?
Just because something isn't done currently, doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. At one time or anther there were no seat belts in cars....

Nearly every single race in Europe (besides WTC events) are allowing refunds (nearly full refunds).I pointed out that it was the case with Quelle Challenge, Roth, ex-IM Europe, and very likely the biggest IM distance in the world besides Kona.
Definitely the only race with Kona that nearly every top pro IM athlete has raced.

You pay a 5.50 euro insurance to get a full refund up to 24hrs before the race.

Cancellation policy of airlines - the only airline that makes benefits is also the only one that allows transfers (southwest).
Airlines DO have insurance if you need to cancel.

Many hotels have nearly full refunds up to 48hrs before.