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why is no one talking about Annemiek Van Vleuten?
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Insane year she's had.

Giro, Tour, Vuelta, and Worlds (with a broken elbow). Ridiculous, simply ridiculous...

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Last edited by: JasoninHalifax: Sep 26, 22 11:00
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Re: why is no one talking about Annamiek Van Vleuten? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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I'm still baffled by how she went down during the TTT. Have they released anything about that incident yet?

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Re: why is no one talking about Annamiek Van Vleuten? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:
Insane year she's had.

Giro, Tour, Vuelta, and Worlds (with a broken elbow). Ridiculous, simply ridiculous...

Your title reads "why is no one talking about Annamiek Van Vleuten" (emphases added)

As shown in the following linked thread, at least five other posters were talking about AvV. Your initial premise having been completely debunked, your contention is meritless, and your thread is irrelevant.
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Re: why is no one talking about Annamiek Van Vleuten? [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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echappist wrote:
JasoninHalifax wrote:
Insane year she's had.

Giro, Tour, Vuelta, and Worlds (with a broken elbow). Ridiculous, simply ridiculous...

Your title reads "why is no one talking about Annamiek Van Vleuten" (emphases added)

As shown in the following linked thread, at least five other posters were talking about AvV. Your initial premise having been completely debunked, your contention is meritless, and your thread is irrelevant.

It has been firmly established that I am, in fact, a complete and utter idiot. Nonetheless, what you reference is called "burying the lead" and I find that tactic to be unsavoury.

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Re: why is no one talking about Annamiek Van Vleuten? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:
Insane year she's had. Giro, Tour, Vuelta, and Worlds (with a broken elbow). Ridiculous, simply ridiculous...
Carl Spackler wrote:
Incredible finish. AvV usually bludgeons the peloton, this time she showed that she’s clever too.
A classic, monument, GC in all three “tours” and WC. A stellar career of wins all in one season.
See here:
https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...hread__P7660330-122/
For the crash: https://www.cyclingnews.com/...pened/#disqus_thread
@realbdeal: Slo-mo review made it clear (to amateur me) that the tyre was still on before the wheel hit the kerb. But go to the link and there's some discussion in that thread.
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Re: why is no one talking about Annemiek Van Vleuten? [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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echappist wrote:
JasoninHalifax wrote:
Insane year she's had.

Giro, Tour, Vuelta, and Worlds (with a broken elbow). Ridiculous, simply ridiculous...

Your title reads "why is no one talking about Annamiek Van Vleuten" (emphases added)

As shown in the following linked thread, at least five other posters were talking about AvV. Your initial premise having been completely debunked, your contention is meritless, and your thread is irrelevant.

I also misspelled Annemiek's name in the search bar, and as a result did not see the discussion in which the story was buried. Regardless, I stand by my original statement that no-one is talking about it.

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Re: why is no one talking about Annamiek Van Vleuten? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:
echappist wrote:
JasoninHalifax wrote:
Insane year she's had.

Giro, Tour, Vuelta, and Worlds (with a broken elbow). Ridiculous, simply ridiculous...


Your title reads "why is no one talking about Annamiek Van Vleuten" (emphases added)

As shown in the following linked thread, at least five other posters were talking about AvV. Your initial premise having been completely debunked, your contention is meritless, and your thread is irrelevant.


It has been firmly established that I am, in fact, a complete and utter idiot. Nonetheless, what you reference is called "burying the lead" and I find that tactic to be unsavoury.


Let's see, you start with a hyperbolic thread title (whose premise is easily debunked) to draw participation, then complains about others resorting to alleged "unsavoury" tactics. A tad rich, innit?

What lede did I bury? I went to the very first post praising her World's RR win. Would posting a screenshot suffice in unburying the lede for you?


JasoninHalifax wrote:
echappist wrote:
JasoninHalifax wrote:
Insane year she's had.

Giro, Tour, Vuelta, and Worlds (with a broken elbow). Ridiculous, simply ridiculous...


Your title reads "why is no one talking about Annamiek Van Vleuten" (emphases added)

As shown in the following linked thread, at least five other posters were talking about AvV. Your initial premise having been completely debunked, your contention is meritless, and your thread is irrelevant.


I also misspelled Annemiek's name in the search bar, and as a result did not see the discussion in which the story was buried. Regardless, I stand by my original statement that no-one is talking about it.


Just dig deeper, eh?
Last edited by: echappist: Sep 26, 22 11:13
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Re: why is no one talking about Annamiek Van Vleuten? [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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echappist wrote:
JasoninHalifax wrote:
echappist wrote:
JasoninHalifax wrote:
Insane year she's had.

Giro, Tour, Vuelta, and Worlds (with a broken elbow). Ridiculous, simply ridiculous...


Your title reads "why is no one talking about Annamiek Van Vleuten" (emphases added)

As shown in the following linked thread, at least five other posters were talking about AvV. Your initial premise having been completely debunked, your contention is meritless, and your thread is irrelevant.


It has been firmly established that I am, in fact, a complete and utter idiot. Nonetheless, what you reference is called "burying the lead" and I find that tactic to be unsavoury.

Let's see, you start with a hyperbolic thread title (whose premise is easily debunked) to draw participation, then complains about others resorting to alleged "unsavoury" tactics. A tad rich, innit?

What lede did I bury? I went to the very first post praising her World's RR win. Would posting a screenshot suffice in unburying the lede for you?

She should have had her very own thread. You know it, I know it, and I know that you know it.

SAD

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2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Last edited by: JasoninHalifax: Sep 26, 22 11:11
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Re: why is no one talking about Annamiek Van Vleuten? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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I think after she survived the horrific crash in Rio, some witchcraft may be involved at this point

When she came roaring down the right side in the finale, all the others looked over and for half a second said "Whelp, that's it for today, girls"

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Re: why is no one talking about Annamiek Van Vleuten? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:

She should have had her very own thread. You know it, I know it, and I know that you know it.

SAD


I see now, after committing debating sins of making a hyperbolic assertion (that was proved-to-be-false) , accusing others of something said others didn't actually do, and being proven wrong with evidence on both points, you are now tripling down by committing the additional debating sin of moving the goal post?

Your original point is no one talking about her achievement. I don't see anything saying she deserves her own thread (whether she does is not germane to debating etiquette, because your original premise didn't mention anything about a separate thread).

We can go two ways here: either you make a bona fide admission to engaging in bad-faithed debating tactics, or I can get someone else involved. We all know how much @slowman is a believer the process and in doing things the right way.
Last edited by: echappist: Sep 26, 22 11:26
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Re: why is no one talking about Annamiek Van Vleuten? [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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This escalated quick......


"one eye doubles my eyesight, so things don't look half bad" John Hiatt
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Re: why is no one talking about Annamiek Van Vleuten? [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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echappist wrote:
JasoninHalifax wrote:

She should have had her very own thread. You know it, I know it, and I know that you know it.

SAD


I see now, after committing debating sins of making a hyperbolic assertion (that was proved-to-be-false) , accusing others of something said others didn't actually do, and being proven wrong with evidence on both points, you are now tripling down by committing the additional debating sin of moving the goal post?

Your original point is no one talking about her achievement. I don't see anything saying she deserves her own thread (whether she does is not germane to debating etiquette, because your original premise didn't mention anything about a separate thread).

We can go two ways here: either you make a bona fide admission to engaging in bad-faithed debating tactics, or I can get someone else involved. We all know how much @slowman is a believer the process and in doing things the right way.

I admit nothing. NOTHING!!

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Re: why is no one talking about Annemiek Van Vleuten? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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I'm not sure about no one speaking of her. She is the darling of the cycling world currently. She is amazingly strong and durable. Probably not a ton of discussion here about her since she isn't a triathlete and there isn't much discussion even about triathletes here other than whether we should adore or hate Lionel.
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Re: why is no one talking about Annamiek Van Vleuten? [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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echappist wrote:
JasoninHalifax wrote:

She should have had her very own thread. You know it, I know it, and I know that you know it.

SAD


I see now, after committing debating sins of making a hyperbolic assertion (that was proved-to-be-false) , accusing others of something said others didn't actually do, and being proven wrong with evidence on both points, you are now tripling down by committing the additional debating sin of moving the goal post?

Your original point is no one talking about her achievement. I don't see anything saying she deserves her own thread (whether she does is not germane to debating etiquette, because your original premise didn't mention anything about a separate thread).

We can go two ways here: either you make a bona fide admission to engaging in bad-faithed debating tactics, or I can get someone else involved. We all know how much @slowman is a believer the process and in doing things the right way.

Get a grip
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Re: why is no one talking about Annemiek Van Vleuten? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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I mean, honestly. Look at the size of her right elbow. A badass if ever there was one.

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Re: why is no one talking about Annemiek Van Vleuten? [iamuwere] [ In reply to ]
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iamuwere wrote:
I'm not sure about no one speaking of her. She is the darling of the cycling world currently. She is amazingly strong and durable.
Both Lowland countries have much to cheer about. The victory tour for Annemiek and Remco will be raucous.
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Re: why is no one talking about Annemiek Van Vleuten? [Pathlete] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, either that weighed a ton or it was not aero. so she sat there all day marking what she had to mark, saved her gas for the final 1000m track sprint event!!!!

To Jason, damn right this topic is worthy of its own discussion. Giro + TdF + Vuelta + UCI worlds !!!

When Stephen Roche did it in 1987 (albeit on the Carrera team working with Dr. Conconi LOL), the Giro and Vuelta overlapped, so it was not possible to do anyway. The last time anyone was close was Froome holding all three Grand Tour titles simultaneouly (TdF, then Vuelta, then Giro, then finished third to Thomas in TdF 2018. But inside a 365 day window he held all three, but Sagan won the UCI Worlds and Froome was third at ITT behind Dumoulin and Roglic


Pathlete wrote:
I mean, honestly. Look at the size of her right elbow. A badass if ever there was one.
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Re: why is no one talking about Annemiek Van Vleuten? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:
Insane year she's had.

Giro, Tour, Vuelta, and Worlds (with a broken elbow). Ridiculous, simply ridiculous...

Because she's in minor league cycling; against better competition and or in a full (e.g. mens) distance race that simply would not be possible. The win at worlds was almost comical, there is a lead pack that looks like they are kind of soft pedaling and sizing each other up for the sprint, and don't seem to notice she's coming at full speed (no radios to warn them) and then nobody really reacts and they just watch her roll by until they react when its too late. One the hand, good flyer by her, on the other hand just incredibly poor tactics and awareness by the main bunch.

And this "broken elbow" is obviously an exaggeration, it has got to be some kind of very minor hairline fracture or she simply would not be riding a bike.

The way to get people (or at least me) interested in womens cycling is have at least one amateur masters mens team or a team of Cat 3s in the races and see if the women can actually beat them. It would raise the bar on both sides and would be very sporting. Imagine a race series for amateur men to qualify to be the "guest team" in Women's world tour events.
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Re: why is no one talking about Annemiek Van Vleuten? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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Who?
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Re: why is no one talking about Annemiek Van Vleuten? [tri_yoda] [ In reply to ]
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tri_yoda wrote:
JasoninHalifax wrote:
Insane year she's had.

Giro, Tour, Vuelta, and Worlds (with a broken elbow). Ridiculous, simply ridiculous...


Because she's in minor league cycling; against better competition and or in a full (e.g. mens) distance race that simply would not be possible. The win at worlds was almost comical, there is a lead pack that looks like they are kind of soft pedaling and sizing each other up for the sprint, and don't seem to notice she's coming at full speed (no radios to warn them) and then nobody really reacts and they just watch her roll by until they react when its too late. One the hand, good flyer by her, on the other hand just incredibly poor tactics and awareness by the main bunch.

And this "broken elbow" is obviously an exaggeration, it has got to be some kind of very minor hairline fracture or she simply would not be riding a bike.

The way to get people (or at least me) interested in womens cycling is have at least one amateur masters mens team or a team of Cat 3s in the races and see if the women can actually beat them. It would raise the bar on both sides and would be very sporting. Imagine a race series for amateur men to qualify to be the "guest team" in Women's world tour events.

You do realize that kilo maneuvers do work in “full distance” men’s racing, right?

Dan Martin did it at Lombardia in 2014. Freire did it at Worlds in 99

The rest of your post, the less said about it the better
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Re: why is no one talking about Annemiek Van Vleuten? [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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echappist wrote:

The rest of your post, the less said about it the better

truth hurts right?

the only way to really get people (I mean men, because it is very clear women don't care about womens professional sports in any meaningful way or there would be about 100X greater ticket sales and TV revenue) interested in womens sports is to make them more interesting. "Professional" women riding bikes as fast as many of the guys in an amateur local/regional road race is not interesting (ever see how many people pay attention to the guys in these races, nobody, actually even less people than pay attention to most womens professional sports).

But I can see that causes lots of contortions for those sticking to the story that "they are just as good and capable as the men" (which we scientifically know is not correct), because the only way to make them interesting would inherently involve accepting the inequality and then using that as an advantage or leverage to create interest. People are smarter than you think, when you want to systematically create false narratives around something, they will often just ignore you.

Which, is also the answer to this original thread (why is no one talking about........)
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Re: why is no one talking about Annemiek Van Vleuten? [tri_yoda] [ In reply to ]
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tri_yoda wrote:
But I can see that causes lots of contortions for those sticking to the story that "they are just as good and capable as the men" (which we scientifically know is not correct), because the only way to make them interesting would inherently involve accepting the inequality and then using that as an advantage or leverage to create interest.

What makes sports interesting is relative competition, not absolute performance. Why have weight classes in lifting? Why have women's categories? Why have junior races?

Some of your points are true. Men are faster and women are watched less. And contrary to what you claim, nearly everyone accepts these as facts. But they aren't equivalent to the minors because they are the pinnacle within their defined category (women).

Also, throwing in some cat 3 males would not do anyone any good. It would only distort the race and create fodder for the "this is boring because they're slower than men" crowd.
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Re: why is no one talking about Annemiek Van Vleuten? [tri_yoda] [ In reply to ]
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tri_yoda wrote:
echappist wrote:


The rest of your post, the less said about it the better


truth hurts right?

the only way to really get people (I mean men, because it is very clear women don't care about womens professional sports in any meaningful way or there would be about 100X greater ticket sales and TV revenue) interested in womens sports is to make them more interesting. "Professional" women riding bikes as fast as many of the guys in an amateur local/regional road race is not interesting (ever see how many people pay attention to the guys in these races, nobody, actually even less people than pay attention to most womens professional sports).

But I can see that causes lots of contortions for those sticking to the story that "they are just as good and capable as the men" (which we scientifically know is not correct), because the only way to make them interesting would inherently involve accepting the inequality and then using that as an advantage or leverage to create interest. People are smarter than you think, when you want to systematically create false narratives around something, they will often just ignore you.

Which, is also the answer to this original thread (why is no one talking about........)

I'm not a huge proponent of women's cycling any more than any other cycling. If it's entertaining I'll watch it. I think you're off base about the speed thing though. Most of the time you really can't even tell how fast the riders are going in much of an absolute sense, it's all relative.

If speed mattered then watching a men's TT would be inherently more entertaining than watching a women's TT and they are not. They are both just as boring outside of the larger context of competition.
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Re: why is no one talking about Annemiek Van Vleuten? [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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echappist wrote:
tri_yoda wrote:
JasoninHalifax wrote:
Insane year she's had.

Giro, Tour, Vuelta, and Worlds (with a broken elbow). Ridiculous, simply ridiculous...


Because she's in minor league cycling; against better competition and or in a full (e.g. mens) distance race that simply would not be possible. The win at worlds was almost comical, there is a lead pack that looks like they are kind of soft pedaling and sizing each other up for the sprint, and don't seem to notice she's coming at full speed (no radios to warn them) and then nobody really reacts and they just watch her roll by until they react when its too late. One the hand, good flyer by her, on the other hand just incredibly poor tactics and awareness by the main bunch.

And this "broken elbow" is obviously an exaggeration, it has got to be some kind of very minor hairline fracture or she simply would not be riding a bike.

The way to get people (or at least me) interested in womens cycling is have at least one amateur masters mens team or a team of Cat 3s in the races and see if the women can actually beat them. It would raise the bar on both sides and would be very sporting. Imagine a race series for amateur men to qualify to be the "guest team" in Women's world tour events.

You do realize that kilo maneuvers do work in “full distance” men’s racing, right?

Dan Martin did it at Lombardia in 2014. Freire did it at Worlds in 99

The rest of your post, the less said about it the better

Yeah, in a fractured field with no one team strong enough to sacrifice anyone on a lead-out, it's a perfect scenario for that kind of a tactic. Looks like Italy was the only squad with more than one rider in that front group.

and yes, the less said about the rest, the better.

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say no to clickbait [ In reply to ]
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What Tri's has she won, not seeing her in the results
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