Optimal cadence for 400w+ efforts will be ~100rpm (+/- your spinning ability) in regard to fatigue resistance and EMG, however, this will result in a lower economy, which in this case is OK as economy is probably not a limiting factor in this effort. (Spinning a higher cadence vs a slow cadence with no load results in more oxygen cost regardless).

If you are not comfortable at these cadences, I'd suggest that you spend some time there. Even at base workloads, try to spend 30s spinning at 100+ rpms. When that is comfortable, go for 1 min etc. This will improve your neuromuscular coordination and make you more economical / effective at the higher cadences needed for (relatively) higher workloads.

Additionally, What trainer are you using?

Smart trainers set at a grade may facilitate standing, but in my opinion, most non-smart trainers will necessitate sitting to be most effective.

As far as strategy on the road, I think that a combination of sitting and standing is best. Standing for 15s to get up to speed (target 6-800 watts), sitting and cranking through the middle (at target wattage) with a short standing end-spurt to really bury it (Target: What you got, son?)

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Being funny: rule #92 No Sprinting From the Hoods

Being serious: it depends

If you're climbing a lot, why not, for just part to mix it up. But if you need the time and watts in the wind to bridge or to break away, you have to be able to do it without standing. And possibly hunched over on the hoods with your elbows bent.

Not quite 5.0 w/kg intervals, but did my 6x3min today seated for all but a couple seconds in the last repeats. The last set I got out after 90 sec to climb for 15 to 20 sec then finished it up seated. It hurts something special.

For the 2 minutes ones, a good one is the ole peak 'n' fade. Peak at something you can do for 30 seconds and fade away until 2 minutes is up.


You can also "snap and hold". Hit something silly like 450 to 500 for 20 to 30 seconds then hold 90-95% of your 8min power for another 6 minutes, without stopping. Those are something special.


Not sure how well those two work physiologically speaking, but mentally they're worth gold to me.

On Tacx Neo smart trainer. What's EMG?

So .... it sounds like by what you are saying I should start off standing ... and then begin picking up cadence... ? Correct?

Depends on your goal...

I did 5 wpk (6x30") seated yesterday. So, I don't see why you would NEED to stand in order to turn the pedals over.

That said, standing and seated pedaling will train different muscles differently. So, if you are trying to train for a standing finish sprint, then... Well... You should probably do these standing.

If you are trying to train to make a breakaway gap, then maybe doing these seated would be better.

there is a huge difference between 350 and 400w for 2 minute intervals. if you haven't practiced standing for 2 minutes+ at easier efforts, i doubt you are going to be able to do it at 400w, supporting all your weight(80kg) not on the saddle is going to take a large toll. i doubt you will be standing for the 0.5mi finish beyond the last 25m, if that as at 80kg, you will not be anywhere near in contention. now before you go and get all in a bunch over these comments, i speak from former experience as a very similar weighted cyclist who could do all day repeats at 350w and probably 13 repeats at 400w for 2 min but would never be anywhere near the finish going uphill due to weight unless i got away earlier alone and then would not be standing either(happened exactly 1x). :)

i will echo, the 400w repeats are going to be a heck of a lot easier at 100rpm than 88 rpm from perceived effort point of view

Like other posters have suggested, cadence is your friend. If I'm on the trainer, I'll grab the bars near the stem, start pushing, and watch the seconds tick by twice as slow on my head unit. :)

I find that staying seated, in the drops, and as low as possible...then only getting out of the saddle to accelerate (close a gap, attack, sprint) is the best way to handle that type of finish in a road race. You'll be more efficient economically and aerodynamically while giving the person behind you as minimal a draft as possible.

As a former triathlete converted to a road racer...this was something I had to get used to. Typically when the tempo picks up, I let my cadence increase which alleviates the desire to stand up. When I first started riding...anything over 350 watts I wanted to stand up and do 80 rpms. Now I can do much harder efforts in the saddle going up to 115 rpms. I typically cruise at around 83-86 rpms.

As they say...optimal cadence is a red herring...but training an a wide range of cadences does open up your tool box so you can go to them when you need them...even if it's just for 1% of your ride.

Good stuff. So what should I aim for if my wpk for 2' if I'm 77.7 kg - at the end of a 54 mile road race?

if you are with the group, you won't be aiming for anything other than staying on the wheels in front of you and trying to set yourself up for the last 100-200m, but unless your 5sec power is between 1300-1500w at 78kg, you won't be winning the sprint, just trying to limit loss of positions in finale. it is amazing how many folks give up near the end


edit: if cat 5, maybe 1100-1300 might be enough at end, cant say as i didnt have a PM back in '92

You're looking at this from a triathlete perspective...which is wrong. In a road race, you simply follow wheels and put down only as much power as you need to accomplish what you feel necessary. Training up your 2' power is a good way to prepare for road races, but I fear you're looking at the .5 mile finish at 3% and estimating it will take you 2 minutes...thus that's what you should train. It doesn't always work that way. If your with another rider or a pack...they might be cruising up the first half of that hill at 230 watts because nobody wants to eat the wind leading into the finish...and it might end up being a max 40 second type effort. Or you might be with someone who can't climb well and they attack you 2 miles before the climb starts so now it's more of a 7 minute max effort to the line.

The best way to prepare for a road race is to group ride with other people who road race. Not only will you get a solid workout that trains your fitness the way it needs to be, but you'll learn to read the situation and what moves work and don't. That is far more valuable than any specific trainer workout you can do. Interval workouts should be done to supplement those skills...not be the focal point of your race strategy.

Jason's right.

Find a local A+ or hammer ride. Try stuff. Doesn't work, no loss. Go with the break. Start a break. Try staying at the front of the pack, try staying mid-pack. See what happens. Go have a beer afterwards with the guys/gals and talk shop. Try again the next week.

Getting dropped 5 times on a local hammer ride is worth it. Even if you knew if you had played it safe you'd have made it home. That knowledge you just got about yourself and how your plan worked out, is super valuable.

There's a reason they say it is chess on wheels.

Is this a trick question? As effing high as you can!

As others have mentioned you are thinking about this wrong. It would not be unusual to experience numerous surges (especially if there are hills) where you will be hanging on for dear life... or spit out the back. If you are not experienced, then riding in the pack and drafting to conserve energy will be your biggest challenge.

Guessing this is your first road race... Cat5? If you can link the course, that would be helpful.

If I was trying to train my 2 min power (and I did 6-12 weeks ago) I wouldn't stand for any of the intervals.

Also, 4.5-5.0 W/Kg could be easy if your FTP is already 4.5 or unreachable if at 3.0. I didn't notice you saying where your are starting from.

Certainly not the whole interval, but I could see standing for 4-5 pedal strokes do the initial acceleration.

Context:
My FTP is 280w (I’m estimating based on TR intervals), 3.6 wpk. I’ve been top in 2 in 5 road races in N. California; with 2 wins as Cat 5. I suck at crits, but aiming for road races.

As others have said, spin up the cadence and try to stay seated. . . but as you get fatigued, it may be necessary to stand some. It is helpful stand and sprint so to speak to get into the gear and speed you need to hit the target power.

As to your race. . . if you're around at the end. . . be patient. On a finish like that and in that cat. . . everyone tends to go too soon, use that early person as your lead out. On a finish like that, ideally sit on the wheel of the guy you think is the quickest and likely to win. Pre-ride the last 500m. . . know where 200m is so you know when you really need to go.

3.6 is similar to myself.

I found that all I could do for any short time (2 min) and be repeatable is 4.5 W/Kg which is ~125% of my FTP. Most of the time I was slightly lower. If you have a lot of anaerobic work capacity you may be able to do more.

I was working on 2 min power for mountain biking.

Likewise. At 80kg and FTP of 285-290W, I could do 350-360W for 1min for 30 reps. I could do ~370W for 2.5mins about 6 or 7 times. But I'd be hard pressed to do more than one at 400W.
350-400W is a huge target range. If I was you I'd try it and see what you're actually capable of before worrying too much about cadence and standing/sitting. I'd do it almost entirely seated. Possibly a few strokes out of the saddle to accelerate initially or to drive the power back up if I started to sag.

You are overthinking things. Do what your perceived exertion tells you is best (which could be different on a trainer vs. on the road, but that's a different story).

If this is a 2 minute interval, I don't see any scenario in a bike race where you would spend 2 minutes standing at high power.

Whether it is end of a TT, a hill climb, or a breakaway, its going to be aero/drops, so my answer would be you have to do it all aero. Doing a seated 2 minute surge on a hill climb from the hoods, would be the same as on a flat in the drops given that your hip angle gets closed up due to the saddle pointing uphill at 8-10% relative to horizonatal flat saddle and the gravity vector, so drops on trainer will be similar to hoods on uphill. Hoods on trainer will be similar to top of bars on hillclimb.

So what you are trying to do is produce the high watts from the same hip angle as you will apply in racing. You can literally do this on a spin bike with your saddle waaaaay back with your bars higher than saddle...it's all about hip angle!!!

Dev