I believe they drink :)

I don't think there's any such thing as a European course that isn't short. We see fast times over and over again in Europe yet when those same competitors compete on U.S. courses their times are slower. IMO most fast European times, especially in this case when it comes to multiple fast age groupers, is directly related to a short course.

Maybe, but how about another idea?

In Europe and Scandinavia, in particular there is a long history of involvement and success at endurance sports. I also sense that there is also a no-nonsense approach to training for these endurance sports. They love the outdoors, and being outdoors doing things. It's pretty blunt and straight-forward, get out there and get the work done. Also it starts at a young age, because it's something that the whole family will do together at one point.

What are the Swedes on? They are on their bikes, on their cross-country skis on their feet, on hiking trails, etc . . . .all year, for years and years!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

members of the Swedish Bikini Team, for 6 hours a night!! What are *you* on??

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float , hammer , and jog

Do you have any hard facts behind this opinion?

I did Regensburg this year. Horrendously difficult bike course, IMO. Yet in my age group, the times were insane. The guy who got 3rd at Kona last year for M18-24 was 9:15 in Hawaii. He qualified at Regensburg going 9:24 in 2011. He got 4th. The first three people simply didn't want to go. So he comes to Hawaii and gets 3rd. "in the world" after getting 4th in his local IM. And got 3rd this year, dropping another 9:15. Two people were under 9:00 in my age group; 8:52 and 8:59. The guy who went 8:52 was seventh OVERALL. He beat most of the pro field and went 4:42 bike split. Michael Raelert beat his bike split by 7 minutes. So this is definitely a race you would be referring to.

At the end of the bike leg, my computer said 112.4 miles. It was actually long. I started it at the mount line, not the bike rack. I came into T2 at 112.3, racked it at 112.4. Sorry to burst your 'America is obviously better than Europe and anything that says otherwise is simply wrong' bubble, but these guys are just in shape. There's so much less of this finisher sticker mentality (which, due to build up injuries and having already forked over thousands to do this destination race, I was guilty of), and so much more of wanting to win mentality. As for 'coming over here', ever think maybe we aren't getting their best? Either the best people don't want to pay $2000 for a plane ticket to Hawaii that would cost us only $700 from the states. Roll down is huge in Europe in alot of age groups. And for the top athletes who do come down, alot of them don't see Kona as the big race because it's not in front of their family, their home town, etc. They focus on the European championships and do Kona on the side.

Obviously I'm not talking about everyone, but these categories of people do exist. So don't just sit back and say, 'wow thats fast, its obviously a short course'. Maybe they're just that good...

well we drink in the summer too ;)

And how to survive the winter, well thats a tough one, many of us travel somewhere else ;)

As a swede, i just dont know what to think of this thread.
(but I love reading it)

There are some reasons for the fast results.
1. The weather was perfect. No wind, 17-19 degrees and cloudy.
2. The course was pancake flat with just a few technical sections on both bike and run.
(bike course was about 3km short according to my GPS)
3. Drafting, unfortunately there was a bit too much of this.
4. The first IronMan race in Sweden (and the whole of Scandinavia) made "everybody" show up. Both the best pro- and AG athletes really wanted to be there for the first race, which was ofcourse also the Swedish Nationals.
5. The streets were lined with tall blondes! ;-)

Everyone knows the Swedes are on PEDs! Id put this in pink but in on my cell

this is the same in Denmark...my copenhagen race is my fastest by 30 minutes! this means that tall blonds trump carbon, training and even energy gels

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http://longwaytogo-ironman.blogspot.com/

The marketing campaign should begin and end with this.

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"Unless you have a ... GF who might put out that night and that night only ... skip it and race." - AndyPants 3-15-2007

I am an American (now British too) who has lived in London the past 6.5 years and done IM's in Europe and US (Austria, Frankfurt, LP, Texas, Copenhagen, Kona). I'm definitely not "fast," but have to agree that it's a bit different in Europe. The field is more competitive overall and you have a lot less "bucket list/one-timers" than the US. Thus, generally in Europe, you will find 70% of the field is competitive and 20% of them are super competitive and the other 30% are doing it for fun/health. I feel it's the opposite in US races - 70% do it for fun/health, 30% competitive (20% of them super competitive). I've been passed by guys in Europe on old road bikes and hiking boots w/ clip-ons!

Though, I'd say there is a better chance you get milder conditions (cooler, no humidity) in most European races. Frankfurt and Austria could be pretty hot, but there is a good chance it's fairly mild versus LP, Wisconsin, Louisville, etc.. in summer. The UK races are most likely going to be cool, but hilly and not the best roads. Plus, you might see really fast bike times in places like Austria b/c the course has a few steep climbs, but a lot of slight descents which you can get a ton of speed on. If it was the other way around, it would take twice as long. That's also why you'll see faster times in Austria than Frankfurt even though the elevation is higher.

You should race here, great atmosphere. Austria has probably one the nicest lakes to swim in....everyone racing looks like Raelert...fit, ripped, and fast.

First of all my cyclecomputer showed 180.0km which should be 180.2, but I would admit that would be in the error margin. So I wouldn't say the course was short, but there was some people drafting.

Last year I did Challenge Roth 8:42 and Ironman Florida on 8:38. This year I did Ironman Kalmar 8:28 and just to prove you wrong I will do Ironman Florida faster this year too!

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I did Ironman Kalmar this saturday. Yes I´m Swedish. My time was 9.47 and I was 28th in my agegroup 40-44 and I think 191th overall.

I was also a bit shocked at the level of this ironman!

Yes the conditions were fast- swimming with very little chop, short sprint from water to T1. Probably a little more downstream than upstream swimming but I´m not sure about that one. Cycling very flat, some wind but not that much-also fairly windprotected. Yes- there was drafting, but not that much more than what I´v seen from youtube clips from other events. My garmin 910 read 178km after the bike so a little short (3 mins worth?) (I´v heard the same distance from several others). Run flat but som twists and turns and also sometimes uneven surface going thru town. Weather just about perfect temperaturewise.
I think a lot of Swedes have trained a lot more than usual for this event on home soil- and combined with the good conditions this made for a super race. Also the cheering crowds were massive!

this just in: non-americans are sometimes faster than americans! without cheating!

-mike

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https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

non-americans are sometimes faster than americans! without cheating!

That is the blunt point and what I was getting at in my previous post, Mike. I get the impression with more than a few North American triathletes that they think there is some secret training plan or some alternative strategy involved here. How about a love and a passion for endurance sports and plain, good old hard work over years and years! It's not that complicated?

Ignore the whole age-group athletes doping thing( yes there are a few idiots doing this), and accept the fact that there are many athletes who have been training for years and years, have a massive aerobic base and do very well in this completely aerobic endurance sport!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

yup. i remember years ago before kona people were asking peter reid who he rated for the race. he kept saying, "there's this guy called luc van lierde who's just flying these days," but nobody would listen to him. the same goes for ITU-type athletes today - just because you haven't read about a guy in "triathlete" magazine or can't pronounce his last name, doesn't mean he isn't damn fast. and even the very fastest guys sometimes chose not to race at places like alcatraz - not because they can't hack it, but because they spend all summer racing for a french team or something.

locally, i can also vouch for the depth of the fields. i live in zurich, and we've got a local running series here. the fields are actually relatively small, but there's very little fat. here are the overall men's results from a recent 17k road race. you needed to go 1 hour flat to make it into to the top 13, and - perhaps more terrifying - you needed to run a 1:10 (that's just over a 4-minute km) in order to make it into the top 153 . . . out of only 1000 athletes. i'm telling you. . . people go fast over here, and tend to do it with a minimum of fuss.

-mike

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https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

I recall running on of my best 10K's ever - 31 low in a 10K race in Toronto back in the early 80's. Not a huge race - maybe 500 people. I finished 28th or something like that. No Kenyans. No big running stars. Just hard-assed, Very fit local guys!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

And the guy who won the 35-39 AG did a 4.39 AG split.....Matthias Buxhofer
http://eu-agr.ironman.com/results/2012/ironman_regensburg_male_overall_2012.pdf

Quite a few matches in google when you pair his name with doping
http://www.google.com.au/...en&client=safari

Agree some 'mericans can't believe they are the slowest AG triathletes in the developed world, but the doping and course distance of Euros does hang a dark cloud.

Every time I go to Starbucks for my fix of hot chocolate (I hate coffee), I'm tempted to ask for a Tall Blonde.

I'm afraid I'd be REALLY disappointed (remember I hate coffee)

:-(

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I saw this on a white board in a window box at my daughters middle school...
List of what life owes you:
1. __________
2. __________
3. __________

If we are talking about Sweden I think you guys are way overestimating how big endurance sports and triathlon are here. Maybe the overall percentage of triathletes here are slightly more focused on performance, but on the other hand we have at most 5000 people doing a triathlon in Sweden every year versus more than 500 000 in America. We also don't have the lap swimming culuture of the states and not a big cycling culture either. And while people on average might be a bit more active we don't have the same college sports system here which I think would yield a quite large base of competent athletes. Yes, skiing is popular to watch on tv but I wouldn't call it a big sport overall, and to say there's a big passion and love for endurance sports is overstating it slightly. It's more in the mainstream media than the states probably but it still doesn't compensate for all the other factors imo.

Having raced in a lot of places around the world my observation is that it's more rare to see a course that is several km short in North America than it is in Europe. If you then add in decent road surfaces and a huge amount of drafting you get really fast times on both the bike and run. I know it's not a popular opinion but those are bigger reasons we see times like this than anything else. People will still continue to rationalize their new pr's with other explanations of course.. Talking about times and records is meaningless unless we start certifying course measurements anyway imo.

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BA coaching http://www.bjornandersson.se

i know you're swedish, but here's an observation from my own travels:

sundsvall, sweden: population 100 000. 250km of nordic ski trails (free, lit, open to the public).

toronto, canada. population 7 million. 0km of nordic ski trails.

-mike

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https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

Yes, but I can easily point out cities in Sweden with zero km of xc-skiing trails as well. The most densily populated areas here don't really have the climate for consistent skiing conditions these days anyway. But I'm not arguing that skiing is less popular here than in Canada because I'm sure it's not. My point is that the amount of people who ski here with any regularity, while growing up and in their adult life, is so extremely small that it has absolutely no effect on the aerobic condition of the general population. Iow there is not a greater number of people here with a good aerobic base than in most other countries.

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BA coaching http://www.bjornandersson.se

Bjorn,

What about all those ads we saw for years in Canada that the average Canadian is as fit as the average 60 year old Swede? :)

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Maybe the average Canadian is 60 years old.. (;

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BA coaching http://www.bjornandersson.se

Hej,


Having done both the old Kalmar course and the IM one last weekend I do think the new course is slightly slower! The swim is longer, and even if its a bit short, the bike has more twists and turns as has the run. However there was very little wind and the draft busters left their testicles at home, alas. One could check participants times over the last 2-4 years to see exactly what was going on, and how much the drafting did help. When the field is only 500-800 deep there is a lot less scope for clinging to wheels and lose group riding.

What was interesting is that the ride was pretty fair for the first 90km, and then people got tired and I presume they rationalised their cheating in one way or another. The was coupled with a sudden lack of draft busters on the second loop.

If only peeps had as much pride on their bikes as they have pride about their bikes we wouldn't end up having these rants. Or maybe it's asking too much of age-groupers with jobs and families to be able to train properly for a 112 mile TT.

However, I was truly touched by the amazing support and warmth from the locals who came out and cheered us all on. They've managed to take a good local long distance race and turn it into a spectacular event. Kalmar was rocking all afternoon and into the night. It's up there with Austria and Roth, give it a proper windy Oland day and it could be epic.

The other negatives were the typical arrogant attitude of many triathletes, some stupid enough to ride on the Oland bridge outside of the specific race lane closure (as I'm married to a local I did feel embarrassed by this kind of narcissistic behaviour) and the lack of coverage for the event in the Swedish media. This echoes the point that even if the Swedes are slightly more active than other nations, triathlon is not a big sport.

SteveMc

Maybe the average Canadian is 60 years old

Perhaps not chronologically, but certainly in terms of our overall health and fitness. It's not the greatest, and my guess is that it's been a decline recently as obesity rates are starting to really ramp up!

The ad campaign that I was referring to ran back in the 70's - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMD35tUh-Ek

It was a promoting a federal government fitness initiative called Particip-action. Not sure what the down-stream outcome of this guilt inducing ads and programs have been, because as I said, my sense is that collectively we are in worse shape now than 30+ years ago as a country.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog