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Re: trisports filing for chapter 13 [PlasmaTT] [ In reply to ]
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The bigger picture here is the massive convulsions that the whole business( the whole tri and indeed the sport specialty retailing business) is going through right now. It's compunded by the fact that the despite what USAT and other bodies are saying, the growth in triathlon is flattening out quickly. Many can't/won't see it, because they are too focused on what's going on at Ironman/70.3 races( adding more and more races, and races selling out quickly).

If you want to get a better picture of what's going on. Go talk to smaller LBS and tri-shops, and regional/local small to mid sized triathlons and triathlon series. Then you'll get a better idea of what's going on.

On the retail side of things, all I can say is this business is extraordinarily hard and challenging at the best of times. People see the $3,000(or much more) bikes wheeled out of the shop and think, "Wow! They must be killing it!". When times were better, I saw many, tri-focussed shops open up, or even bigger more established bike stores, really go after the Tri-Market. Indeed, Dan Empfield, wrote a defining industry focused piece, about 3 years ago, about Best Practices, for new stores, or established stores thinking of going in that direction - http://www.slowtwitch.com/...ed_by_Tri__1201.html

However, since Dan wrote that piece, a whole wave of tri-shops have come and gone, and many of the bigger bike shops who started to go in that direction have retreated from that, and backed completely away from triathlon. As noted the game has changed significantly since then - and that was just 3 short years ago.

As for TriSports - they were really pioneers, and they set the bar high in the business. They are going through some challenges. But the people behind it are smart, and I have confidence that they will sort through this and reinvent themselves.


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: trisports filing for chapter 13 [Devlin] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks to Visa, Felt Bikes and Fraser Cycle I didn't get screwed but that character tried very hard to do just that. Maybe I do hold a bit of of grudge.
I might get over it some day!
Cheers
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Re: trisports filing for chapter 13 [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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The bigger picture here is the massive convulsions that the whole business( the whole tri and indeed the sport specialty retailing business) is going through right now
__________

I think your "bigger picture" is still pretty microscopic .... the problem is that the US and North American economy is still unrecovered from recession and poor government policies in the US ( I can't speak for Canada). All small businesses are hurting and see little light at the end of the tunnel yet ... it's not just tri and sports retailing. People just don't have the disposable income they had even 5 years ago .... and what they have they want to hang onto until they feel a little more comfortable with economic stability.

Dave
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Re: trisports filing for chapter 13 [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Nicely Stated. could not agree more = Saturation and weeding out is what is happening.
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Re: trisports filing for chapter 13 [HiKai] [ In reply to ]
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It's not just that, its the fact that Trisports isn't a discount retailer online. Why would I order online from them for full price when I can find 95 percent of the products online for a discounted price. If I want to pay full price I can just go to my LBS, which is a whole lot easier if I need to make a return or have a problem with the product.
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Re: trisports filing for chapter 13 [Grant.Reuter] [ In reply to ]
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Grant.Reuter wrote:
It's not just that, its the fact that Trisports isn't a discount retailer online. Why would I order online from them for full price when I can find 95 percent of the products online for a discounted price. If I want to pay full price I can just go to my LBS, which is a whole lot easier if I need to make a return or have a problem with the product.

This is a good point. The specialty retail modle provides a greater selection from one location and ideally more expertise and knowledge of products. The great selection model is not longer important with online retailers like Amazon on jsut a basic Google search able to find you what you want anywhere. Heck, I bought my Zipp 808 FC Clincher from Perfomrance Bike. I'm not sure they even carried Zipp 1 or 2 years ago and I wouldn't have gone to them for a specialty product like that. Did I almost buy a Bontrager Aeolus 9 D3 clincher from my LBS. Yes, but guess what? Bontrager in their brilliance had a big employee purchase promotion and gutted their inventory. Way to go Bontrager.


TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com
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Re: trisports filing for chapter 13 [dcsxtri10] [ In reply to ]
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I wouldn't say all small business is hurting or even small sports specialty. Run specialty has been in a boom for the last few years and well run operations are hitting record sales numbers every month. On top of that the best run stores are openning new doors to great success and strong sales without canabalizing sales from their original store

If you look at the Tri market there are clear signs that the industry is not in a great place.

Craft - no tri apparel for 2014
Sugoi - pretty much 1 short and 1 tri top being offered for 2014
Pearl - while they will still offer a good line they dropped a few color options as they didn't need as many options
Zoot - No clue what they are up to, haven't heard from them in a year so we dropped them after 9 years

The majority of local races I see numbers are flat or down. WTC is still fine but the local scene where people get their start in the sport is not as strong partly due to oversaturation

Boots
Fleet Feet Rochester, NY
Fleet Feet Buffalo, NY
YellowJacket Racing, Rochester, NY
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Re: trisports filing for chapter 13 [dcsxtri10] [ In reply to ]
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Dave,

Agreed. That's why I said "Best of times". Clearly these are not Best of times!

At the beginning of the current economic situation there was some thought/hope that because of the good demographics of triathletes(well off) that the sport would be OK - and it was for a time. However as this flat economy goes on, it's starting to have an impact.


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: trisports filing for chapter 13 [FF Boots] [ In reply to ]
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If you look at the Tri market there are clear signs that the industry is not in a great place.

Craft - no tri apparel for 2014
Sugoi - pretty much 1 short and 1 tri top being offered for 2014
Pearl - while they will still offer a good line they dropped a few color options as they didn't need as many options
Zoot - No clue what they are up to, haven't heard from them in a year so we dropped them after 9 years

Boots,

Good info.

These are markers that, the numbers, are not growing, they may be flat or in decline for Tri.

Agreed, that run retail is still decent. The advantage here is you have the turn of shoes - I would assume - every few months, people need new shoes.



Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: trisports filing for chapter 13 [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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I agree...outside the IM and 70.3 World the numbers seemed to have peaked at out local triathlons in 2009 and are in decline....I am in Minneapolis which has an incredible offering of Triathlons in the local marked, and its still healthy, but the BOP participants seemed to have moved on to the Mud Run/Zombie Run/Color Run experience. At the end of the season I am going to run some numbers but I was at a triathlon that had 400-500 people in 2009 and had about 270 this year....

3 years ago I was seeing MANY Mt bikes in the tranisition area in local sprint triathlons but there is noticably less of the participants this year....
Last edited by: Steve-oH!: Aug 21, 13 14:19
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Re: trisports filing for chapter 13 [Steve-oH!] [ In reply to ]
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I think your comment about Mt bikes is telling. I believe one of the limiters to growth is cost. We have people convinced they need to spend thousands on bikes, race wheels, training plans, nutrition products etc. just to compete. Looking at the bike paddock at any triathlon for someone who is considering giving it a try for the first time can be very intimidating. Being a Canadian we have similar issues with our national pastime "hockey" and declining enrollment. While I am certain there are numerous factors at play, skates now cost $500 a pair, sticks are made from carbon fiber and can cost well over $100. People wonder why basketball and soccer are growing up here at the same time - its because if I have shoes, shorts and a t-shirt, I am set. This is not all that different to running or the tough mudder.
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Re: trisports filing for chapter 13 [yikes] [ In reply to ]
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You speak to one of the bigger issues that we face going forward: inclusivity and accessibility. How do we continue to embrace those looking to start the sport? How do we also do so without, in the opinion of some, water down the sport?

Retail is only a reflection of the health of the endurance sports community at large. If anything, we as retailers need to do the most to be building the sport and help harbor those beginners. After all, we all had to start somewhere. Be more than just the store; be a resource, be visible to your community, and be inclusive.

----------------------------------
Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter
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Re: trisports filing for chapter 13 [rrheisler] [ In reply to ]
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I'll be honest. It's a shit load of money to even stay in triathlon on top of the decipline/time required to train.

My girlfriend thinks its crazy that I would spend $75 for an aero bottle or 5 grand on a bike ( and shes just a runner). It all adds up quickly and it takes away from the simplicity for newcomers and can be intimidating as well.

If you watch some tri videos from the 80s, those guys where going just as fast without all the bullshit gadgetry or fancy clothing we have today.
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Re: trisports filing for chapter 13 [tenzo] [ In reply to ]
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I do think that we often fall into the trap of "keeping up with the Joneses" and it leads to skewing inventory towards your elite customer. That said, there is also pricing too low, and devaluing your brand.

But inventory mix and pricing, IMO, are only end game issues: you are converting people who are already interested in tri to making a purchase. How do we make the sport more inclusive for beginners so that they may wind up one of those elite customers? That's the question store owners and managers should be asking: how do I help grow the community?

----------------------------------
Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter
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Re: trisports filing for chapter 13 [rrheisler] [ In reply to ]
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Geez, I can't see why a company that charges $14 to ship me $20 bar tape, would be filing for bankruptcy. It's a mystery.
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Re: trisports filing for chapter 13 [rrheisler] [ In reply to ]
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rrheisler wrote:
I do think that we often fall into the trap of "keeping up with the Joneses" and it leads to skewing inventory towards your elite customer. That said, there is also pricing too low, and devaluing your brand.

But inventory mix and pricing, IMO, are only end game issues: you are converting people who are already interested in tri to making a purchase. How do we make the sport more inclusive for beginners so that they may wind up one of those elite customers? That's the question store owners and managers should be asking: how do I help grow the community?

The problem for bike shops is that they are really poor retailers blaming a poor market.

Performance bike is the store to hate but they are smart retailers for many reasons. For example, how many of you have dropped $2K plus at an LBS and never heard from them until you walked in the store next? Buy from PB and its non-stop follow up via email.

Now take bike shop group rides. How many of these are used by the bike shop to sell something to the people attending? How many use these rides to build a strong "LBS community"? Do people consume sports drinks / energy bars on these rides and where are they buying them?

Does the average LBS realize how hard it is to show up at the weekly group ride on a new bike bought from a competitor when the attendees feel a strong sense of belonging to this group?

There are many ways to boost sales at the LBS but they incorporate almost none of the basic tools to retail success.
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Re: trisports filing for chapter 13 [Steve-oH!] [ In reply to ]
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Steve-oH! wrote:
I agree...outside the IM and 70.3 World the numbers seemed to have peaked at out local triathlons in 2009 and are in decline....I am in Minneapolis which has an incredible offering of Triathlons in the local marked, and its still healthy, but the BOP participants seemed to have moved on to the Mud Run/Zombie Run/Color Run experience. At the end of the season I am going to run some numbers but I was at a triathlon that had 400-500 people in 2009 and had about 270 this year....

3 years ago I was seeing MANY Mt bikes in the tranisition area in local sprint triathlons but there is noticably less of the participants this year....

I've seen he same thing. Evne my local dinky race has number up aroudn 50-60 including teams 8 years ago. Last year I think 20 or so showed up and no teams. Some of that is poor marketing, poor choce of race dates.

As for sprints, I've also heard it mentioned that a lot of veterans are focusing on only a couple long course events each year and either don't see the benefit of doing "been there done that" local races that they are only getting slower at as they get older, or WTC races are so f***** expensive that they can only afford 2 of those event a year before their spouse is ready to file papers.

I know it's a financial strain. Do I race more, get a coach or get a power meter? Pick one! I'd ratehr race more, since otherwise, WTF is the point.


TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com
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Re: trisports filing for chapter 13 [rrheisler] [ In reply to ]
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How do we continue to embrace those looking to start the sport? How do we also do so without, in the opinion of some, water down the sport?

Ryan,

We are going off on different tangents here, but it does loop back to the topic, eventually.

We've all I think, inadvertently made the sport too imposing and expensive. It might need a bit of a re-think.

I was part of a think-tank back in the winter. A gathering of some of the top people on the event management side, the marketing/promotional side, key media players, athletes and retailers. We brain-stormed for two days. It was interesting what we came up with. I can't tell you what it was - it's still under wraps at the the moment. But we did push that re-set and re-think button, and the outcome was interesting. The bottom line for all involved, was that we wanted more people active and more people involved with triathlon. That should be good news for everyone.





Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: trisports filing for chapter 13 [joebednar4] [ In reply to ]
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joebednar4 wrote:
Geez, I can't see why a company that charges $14 to ship me $20 bar tape, would be filing for bankruptcy. It's a mystery.


^This...$14 to ship compression socks to the midwest ended any chance of me being a customer. I haven't been back to the website since.
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Re: trisports filing for chapter 13 [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Fleck wrote:
How do we continue to embrace those looking to start the sport? How do we also do so without, in the opinion of some, water down the sport?

Ryan,

We are going off on different tangents here, but it does loop back to the topic, eventually.

We've all I think, inadvertently made the sport too imposing and expensive. It might need a bit of a re-think.

I was part of a think-tank back in the winter. A gathering of some of the top people on the event management side, the marketing/promotional side, key media players, athletes and retailers. We brain-stormed for two days. It was interesting what we came up with. I can't tell you what it was - it's still under wraps at the the moment. But we did push that re-set and re-think button, and the outcome was interesting. The bottom line for all involved, was that we wanted more people active and more people involved with triathlon. That should be good news for everyone.



That's great to hear. I think one positive thing is all the youth triathlon races. If you make it a more culturally popular sport, the numbers will defnitely grow. Having most youth swimmers considering mutisport, is a big plus. You can;t do much of anything professonally as a swimmer... but you can as a triathlete.


TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com
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Re: trisports filing for chapter 13 [jonathdo] [ In reply to ]
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jonathdo wrote:
sad day when anyone goes out of business.

Failure is an important part of capitalism.
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Re: trisports filing for chapter 13 [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Fleck wrote:
If you look at the Tri market there are clear signs that the industry is not in a great place.

Craft - no tri apparel for 2014
Sugoi - pretty much 1 short and 1 tri top being offered for 2014
Pearl - while they will still offer a good line they dropped a few color options as they didn't need as many options
Zoot - No clue what they are up to, haven't heard from them in a year so we dropped them after 9 years

Boots,

Good info.

These are markers that, the numbers, are not growing, they may be flat or in decline for Tri.

Agreed, that run retail is still decent. The advantage here is you have the turn of shoes - I would assume - every few months, people need new shoes.

Fleck,

you have far more experience than I in this area, but couldn't there also be other things going on. Things such as more competition where incoming competitors are doing things far better than existing. The economy is truly global and people are going where they are getting best value on their dollar. This is something north american companies seem to be really stuck on. Like it or not, people are looking for the best products and the best deals on those products and with enough time and effort, they are out there.
I would bet there are some retailers who are killing it right now....and I bet they are selling to triathletes....online....AND doing it correctly.
Mark
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Re: trisports filing for chapter 13 [Goobdog] [ In reply to ]
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Goobdog wrote:
rrheisler wrote:
I do think that we often fall into the trap of "keeping up with the Joneses" and it leads to skewing inventory towards your elite customer. That said, there is also pricing too low, and devaluing your brand.

But inventory mix and pricing, IMO, are only end game issues: you are converting people who are already interested in tri to making a purchase. How do we make the sport more inclusive for beginners so that they may wind up one of those elite customers? That's the question store owners and managers should be asking: how do I help grow the community?

The problem for bike shops is that they are really poor retailers blaming a poor market.

Performance bike is the store to hate but they are smart retailers for many reasons. For example, how many of you have dropped $2K plus at an LBS and never heard from them until you walked in the store next? Buy from PB and its non-stop follow up via email.

Now take bike shop group rides. How many of these are used by the bike shop to sell something to the people attending? How many use these rides to build a strong "LBS community"? Do people consume sports drinks / energy bars on these rides and where are they buying them?

Does the average LBS realize how hard it is to show up at the weekly group ride on a new bike bought from a competitor when the attendees feel a strong sense of belonging to this group?

There are many ways to boost sales at the LBS but they incorporate almost none of the basic tools to retail success.

I think you make some good points on PB vs local shops. I'd like to support local shops but they just don't have what I want. They say "I can order that for you" well I can order it too, have it quicker and for a better price. In addition to that they close early during the week and are closed on sundays. My GF and I spent $250 at PB last sunday cuz they made sure I knew they had additional discounts on their sale....and they were open....on sunday.

jaretj
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Re: trisports filing for chapter 13 [Steve-oH!] [ In reply to ]
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Steve-oH! wrote:
At the end of the season I am going to run some numbers but I was at a triathlon that had 400-500 people in 2009 and had about 270 this year....

In June Dan solicited the RDs on his calendar to fill out a survey of how participation is now versus years prior. He promised to share the results, even teased us in a second solicitation that the early results were "intriguing". More than two months later and the results still have not been shared with those of us who filled out his survey, but Dan does have hard data on this.
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Re: trisports filing for chapter 13 [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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I noticed that Trisports has an opening for a buyer at the Tuscon store.

https://www.linkedin.com/...2CVSRPcmpt%3Aprimary

I'd take this as a good sign.



Punching cockroaches from day 1.
http://www.tri-junkie.com/
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