Get the freestyle DVD. I bought the book too and I can assure you that watching people perform what they talk about in the book made it all come together. Do the drills over and over again and you WILL feel better about your swimming. I may not be any faster but I definitely feel smoother and feel like I can breath easier.

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"Gravedigger, when you dig my grave could you make it shallow? So that I can feel the rain."

I think there was a post on this some time ago. Total immersion seems o be most beneficial for new or returning swimmers. If you already have a good swim then it may not help. Personally, I found it useful from a drills perspective as I tried to relearn to swim after many years away from it. I used to be a schoolboy competitive swimmer, but after 20 years a refresher was needed. Perhaps you already have perfect form :-)

It is very hard to learn it from a book. I tried.

So I went to the clinic - that's what you really need.

I could not swim more than one length of a pool without being winded. After the clinic I did an IM.

I am still improving. I've visited the creator himself for direct instruction.

You should correct your title again - the BOOK may be an unwise use of resources, but the technique is very valuable.

Not sort of what swimming background you came from, but a couple things to consider

• How long have you been doing the drills? I think it takes months to see improvement.
• Have you ever had someone look at your stroke, if you're not doing the drills correctly it could be all for naught.
• As with many sports your improvement may be somewhat limited to your physical make-up. Some people just do not float well, and it will always be hard for them to do so. They spend so much energy just keeping their balance, they will never swim fast. Just like a 300 lb. person, can read all the running books that are out there, but unless they lose weight, they're never going to read the benefits of running correctly.

Even as someone who did club swimming as a kid, I found the book extremely helpful, when I got back into swimming it took me 20 strokes to get from one end to the other. Reading TI I got down to an fairly efficient 13. Granted to really swim faster you have to work and train hard. But TI sets the foundation for better and faster swimming....IMO.

Step back and think about what Terry's points are - they make perfect sense, how could they not make you faster?

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People I've loved, I have no regrets
Some I remember, some I forget
Some of them living, some of them dead
All I want is to be home ".....Foo Fighters, Home

Total immersion is not a waste of money if you go to the weekend seminar. The book will make more sense after that.

Swimming is by far my weakest event (I am a runner/cyclist) and I went from no background in swimming, to making the varsity D3 swim team and (sub 6:00 for the 500) and just over an hour for 2.4. I am sure if I wasn't taking it easy, I could have come home in ~55 minutes but I was saving it for the rest of the bike.

I credit total immersion for helping me to learn how to swim. If you don't want your book anymore, I'll take it. :)

I have taken the TI clinics and found they were very good for balance in the water.

I think it takes time and a lot of drills to improve. I am still working on improving.

With swimming you never "really arrive"

Sorry to hear you are disappointed - maybe you can find someone near you to help you deckside?

TI is somewhat useful, IMO and among many others on the forum, for beginners who need to learn balance in the water. It is not a good way to learn to get faster if your balance is good. TI basically totally ignores the propulsive aspects of swimming. Simply put, you can glide all you want, but if you don't move water, you ain't going nowhere! If you really want a good resource on swimming, check out Richard Quick's (Stanford U. coach) and David Marsh's (Auburn U. coach) videos. They are two of the best swim coaches in the world.

I found them about 8 million times more helpful than the TI video. It took me about a year to "recover" from the "advice" of a coach who thought TI was the way to go. It was pretty much the worst thing that ever happened to my swimming. Getting some videos on how real swimmers swim was tremendously helpful in this quest. For those who have benefitted from TI, I'm happy for you. But I don't think there is anything revolutionary in the concept, and I think there is a lot of that will actually make your swimming worse. The Richard Quick videos especially focus on body positioning in conjuction with things like a proper catch and drive, something that TI totally leaves out.

The most telling thing for me is that when you look at the guys who are crushing the swims in triathlon, they swim like pure swimmers, only generally with less kick. No one is coming first out of the water in an ITU or IM swim by doing textbook TI. No one is winning medals at the Olympics doing TI. No one is winning medals at OW Worlds doing TI. So, when I think about who I want to emulate, the answer for me is pretty obvious.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

i have read the book, studied and followed the minute details of the recommended technique. my swimming has not improved.

How is that possible? Consistent practice with even poor form will produce some improvement.

Honestly, your post seems like a gasoline-soaked log just begging for a lit match.

bought the book too and I can assure you that watching people perform what they talk about in the book made it all come together.

I did the same and second the recommendation. Actually, I'd recommend just buying the DVD. IMO, like mechanics of other sports, swimming mechanics is something that needs to be observed.

The biggest problem I have seen with TI is when it is misinterpreted to mean "glide across the pool". The idea of "swim golf" is a good idea, IMO, to keep the focus on a combination of swimming faster while using a managable stroke count.

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-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --

[reply]Get the freestyle DVD. I bought the book too and I can assure you that watching people perform what they talk about in the book made it all come together. Do the drills over and over again and you WILL feel better about your swimming. I may not be any faster but I definitely feel smoother and feel like I can breath easier.[/reply]

This seems to be the classic T1 response. I'm not any faster, but I've spent hours and hours doing drill after drill, and feel much better and smoother. I've seen this way too often to really consider buying into the system. I don't care if I look like a spaz (still) I just want to get faster. No style points in the swim!

IMHO, TI is a great for taking a beginning or new swimmer to a point where they can swim strongly and comfortably. But, as a few others have indicated, you're not going to get truly 'fast' by using TI. However, for most triathletes, a 55:00-1:00 IM swim is great. But for the FOP guys/gals that are shooting for a podium spot and want to go low 50's, or sub 50, you're going to have to incorporate some other technique, strength and fitness work to get that additional speed.

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__________________
JP

my twitter feed

What?? you mean by reading a book you didn't immmediately become the fastest swimmer out there?? Geeze, you should report them to the BBB.

And yeah, if you have your receipt I bet you could return the book to where you bought it

I'm not any faster, but I've spent hours and hours doing drill after drill, and feel much better and smoother.

Not seeing the forest for the trees.

If I swam the a "ball's out" 1.2mi in 54min in '05, and then swam an "easy" 53min 1.2mi swim in '06 (multiple variables, I know) ... I wouldn't have been much faster, but the improvement would have been GREAT ... especially from the perspective of a triathlete. I think most of us can all agree that going "as fast as possible" is less desirable than "getting out of the water feeling pretty good" in triathlon, right? The exception might be the podium seekers that are looking to stay with the main lead pack.

I suppose I could repeat one of those clever quotes about "losing a race on the swim" and what not, but what's the point? The truth is for a good number of people, TI has been an accomodating way of increasing swimming distance (and maybe even speed) while conserving energy for the long day ahead.

I am no swimming guru, far from it ... but it seems that for many AG comps that being able to swim a long distance utilizing as little effort as possible is the goal. If your goal is to "swim as fast as possible", then maybe you want to go a different direction with your purchase.

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-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --

Did you buy those videos or did you find a place to rent them? They look great! I want to check them out but don't want to fork out $40 a pop for them. Maybe I'll hit up a swim coach buddy of mine and see if he happens to own them. Thanks for the suggestion.

I wouldn't even get the DVD unless you have someone watching you on the deck or video camera rolling. How do you know if you are doing the drills correctly without feedback?

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I'll be what I am
A solitary man

I bought them. Given that swimming is my weakest sport, I would have happily paid twice that for them given how much I got out of them.

David Marsh also runs a camp for triathletes, masters, etc. once a year down at Auburn. It is very reasonable. It's never worked out with my schedule, but that's another thing to look into. I think it was like $300 + accom. for 5 days or so.

Championshipproductions.com is the website I used, but $40 sounds about right for the DVD price. I bought one and a friend bought one, and we traded, which was a good system.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Thanks for the info. You're right--if they are useful, it's really a cheap price to pay.

I've got the DVD and book. I'm in the Atlanta area if anyone wants to check them out. I'd like to find someone with some spinervals DVD's and we could swap for a week or so.

TI book - $19.99

TI DVD - $39.99

This testimonial - PRICELESS...

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"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com

"I think most of us can all agree that going 'as fast as possible' is less desirable than 'getting out of the water feeling pretty good' in triathlon, right?"

Not those of us whose primary concern is to make the swim cutoff, as mine was when I was preparing for IMFL last year, as well as in several OW races.

My experience all along has been that I could easily swim long distances, but only at an inordinately slow speed. It seems to me that almost all of the TI testimonials I have seen have been along the lines of "I could barely complete a lap without gasping for breath, and now I can swim a whole mile." Well, I haven't had any trouble completing multiple laps since I was a young child, and even after more than a decade of no swimming at all I was back up to a continuous mile within about a couple of weeks, so such testimonials don't mean much to me. After that, I tried all the drills in the TI books, but remained very much BOP. Fortunately, I have realized some modest improvement with the aid of a private coach, who helped me to undo some of the mistakes I picked up from TI.

I will admit that there are some TI concepts that I believe are valid and that I use to guide my training, but a lot of it is bunk IMO.

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Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--
I took the one less traveled by,
Which is probably why I was registering 59.67mi as I rolled into T2.

I tried the whole TI thing a couple of years ago -- after months of drills, my 1500 meter time SLOWED by 2 minutes (although my stroke count was way down).

Frustrated, I got some 1x1 coaching (non TI method), concentrated on the basics of form (stay relaxed, minimize kick, bilateral breathing), and started SWIMMING. My 1500 meter time improved by 4 minutes in just a few months on my new KISS ("keep it simple stupid") low volume training approach (although admittedly still in the MOP range!).

Drills never did anything for me; instead I do periodic laps concentrating on specific form issues (pull, push, breathing, etc.). That, plus a reasonable progression of SIMPLE repeats (i.e., 10 x 100 leaving on 2:30, progressing down to 1:50) over weeks of repitition resulted in some moderate improvement.

After reading some long threads on TI it seems that TI works well for folks who don't know how to swim at all (i.e., can't get across for one lap) and also for strong kickers.

However, the whole "swim like a fish" (!? are we supposed to run like a cheetah? and fish DO swim on their stomachs!) and glide thing seems like hogwash to me (and my 1x1 coach who laughed at my TI swim technique).

Funny thing is, the author of the TI books admitted he swam pretty damn fast times in college "thrashing" in the water (i.e., VERY high stroke count). Ok, you discovered a great new way for YOU to improve... resulting in what, maybe 30 sec to 1 minute savings over 1500 meters? This for an ex college swimmer.... seems like you were pretty darn quick "thrashing" as well. Good enough for most triathletes, anyway.

You don't need a complex package of swim Products (tm) or cult initiations to improve your swim. 1x1 lessons are best, especially until you get a basic technique down. Then it's just a matter of time in the pool (consistency) and slow, steady progression. Masters teams are great so long as you don't overdo it.

Just my two cents based on my own experience. You can check out a massive thread on TI by doing a ST forum search "total immersion cult".

I got a lot out of the book. But, as some have said, it got me from not being able to swim more than 100yds to being able to swim 2.4 miles in about 1:25 in less than a year.

Now that I've gotten some 1 on 1 coaching, I have started to make dramatic imrovements again. There's nothing that I'm learning that specificaly contradicts TI, but I am learning alot that you don't get from TI (ie....kick this way to drive your hips, you pull too soon....now you pull too late....your left arm doesn't dig deep enough and your right arm digs too deep....twist your hand out just a little more...etc.). In just 2 weeks I've taken off 10 sec/100 (about 7 minutes for an IM swim).

So, IMHO, TI is good for people who A) don't already know how to swim and B) are smart enough and coordinated enough to learn to swim from a book.

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

Coming from a basketball background, I found the TI books and video very helpful. T! is good for teaching a non-swimmer how to swim ... there are just no good how-to solutions for non-swimmers. Yet, for me, I quickly became frustrated by: 1) having a good-looking, yet slow swim stroke; 2) my beautiful T1 stroke falling apart in open-water races. In hindsight, Im glad that I did T1, but I wish someone would have told me earlier that it was not a long-term solution. I'm really thankful for ST'ers who disabused me of T1 (as a long-term solution), especially Doug Stern.

Not a waste. It's the only way I get to shore during a race!!! Can make a decent swimmer out of a non-swimmer, and probably improve a decent swimmer. Go to a seminar and it will all come together.

Plus, they are excellent people to deal with and the founder stands behind his stuff.

It is not a complete waste of money - don't be dumb.

It takes people who have no concept how to swim and teaches them the correct way to swim - efficiently. If you learn and master it, you move on and try to swim faster. It teaches people to be safe in the water.

I think you owe terry laughlin an apology - he is a really good guy and good for the sports of swimming and triathlon... or not, I don't really care.