I think the better comparison is how the team does on average. I’ll bet really good with great technique! But it’s hard to use one kid just because you can get a Lebron James who will crush regardless of coaching as that top kid.

OTOH, just b/c your kids' team is swimming in a 25 m pool in no way affects the potential to swim twice a day. The coach could offer, in theory at least, a second workout 4 or 5 days/wk for those who want to swim doubles. Just a thought...:)

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Kids burning out/flaming out is a horrible thing.
Not to speak of over-use injuries.

A kid focused and motivated will always perform better. Now AND later in Life.

I have seen those teenagers from a big club training twice a day (one of their workouts coincided with Masters).
They looked like me when I am hating having to go to work.

I would be good if they had 2 swims a day on offer, but it's only 1 session/day for a number of reasons, mostly coaching availability and the fact it's a small club, fewer swimmers.

yup true.

The rate of burn out is so high in Australia. Kids done by the age of 12/13.

Not entirely on topic, but on the subject of burnout (and *not* a commentary on any parenting anyone here is doing): a coach of a traveling youth soccer team once took the grumbling parents aside and said:

"If your kid was going to play for Barcelona, you'd have heard by now. Relax and let your kids have fun."

The question you should always be asking as a coach is "what is the minimum amount of training I have to give an athlete for peak performance." It is a question that isn't asked much in swimming and never in triathlon. For swimming, unfortunately, the argument is largely still about volume versus intensity (race pace training). But there are glimmers that the questions being asked by some coaches are what skills do I have to teach an athlete to race fast - aerobic/anaerobic capacity just being a small component of that racing success. This is a discussion that is still probably another 5-10 years away in triathlon.

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http://www.magnoliamasters.com
http://www.snappingtortuga.com
http://www.swimeasyspeed.com

In swimming there are a lot of 1-4 minute races requiring a huge anaerobic component. Triathlon is 1-8 hrs at the pro level. That's all pretty well aerobic system, so you can see why triathlon would reward the volume aspects that come over from endurance cycling and endurance running. Track cycling and track running have a different focus of aerobic and anaerobic mix than swimming even though all of swimming 400m and below is the exact duration as track events in both cycling (4000m and lower) and running (1500m and lower).

But you can see how triathlon training would gravitate towards the endurance style training from cycling, running and swimming given the durations. But having said that, if you don't have good 50m-100m speed as a swimmer your triathlon game is almost over (swimmers who miss the lead back) in Olympic tris and in competitive half IMs its also over. There is a chance at IM, but from a big hole, so it makes sense the swim training for top pros should also emphasize top end speed.

Here's the thing that triathletes never understand about swimming: yes, many of the events last 1-4 minutes and they are largely anaerobic. However, swimmers will swim prelims, semi-finals and finals in multiple individual events as well as relays over the course of a long weekend to 5 days. To be able to recover from that quickly to perform at the same level again requires a very large aerobic component. Although some of the swim events are lasting 6 hours now or at least for the last 25 years since FINA started to contest the 25km.

Here's the thing triathletes don't understand about triathlon and I've worked with a lot of pros in the sport and triathlon coaches: triathletes overtrain and over-race in a chronic and consistent way.

But more to the point I was getting at with the post, the aerobic/anaerobic component of racing for triathlon or swimming is just that - a component. And it's actually a bi-product of what you are training which is your brain and nervous system to race faster and more efficiently.

Tim

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http://www.magnoliamasters.com
http://www.snappingtortuga.com
http://www.swimeasyspeed.com

I definitely agree that in a large swim meet with multiple events and warmups and cooldowns, you need a big aerobic base.

for triathlons, pros need really high end 50m, 100m, and 200m swim speed.

In terms of pro triathletes over racing, this may not be an option in terms of earning a living. Its almost in the same category as NFL players doing 4 pre season, 16 regular season and 4 post season games. It is a meat grinder and it is what it is, and the season in itself is an endurance and recovery contest. Some triathletes may have the option of racing less or more depending on their finances. We could say the same for UCI pro cyclists (who don't get to decide how much and when they race, their teams do). Phillippe Gilbert was commenting on Wout Van Aert and Van Der Poel, likely to burn out in the long run and they should dial back if they want their careers to last longer. I think this year we will see a lot of pros burning out in July because last year's cycling season went into November and they are already back racing fulll steam in Europe and the UAE tour about to start.

They don't need anywhere near "high end" 50-100 speed. It's more akin to 200/400 speed of a good 12-13 year old girl.

The pros who want to and do win the world championships at the Ironman/Half Ironman distance are the ones who show up to those races with the fewest number of races that season. The average is 1 or less full for the men and 2 or less for the women.

Tim

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http://www.magnoliamasters.com
http://www.snappingtortuga.com
http://www.swimeasyspeed.com

I think it was uneccessary to compare pro triathletes to 12 year old girls (that was a talk down on a few fronts, you could have used 12 year old boys so you spoke down about a gender and you chose to compare pro triathletes to 12 year olds. You can do better than that).

My point was the athletes themselves need their best 50-100m speed that they can muster for the start and surges. The better their 50-100m speed the better they will go across all distances anyway, because they are already aerobic monsters.

On 1 Ironman per year, Mark Allen and Dave Scott already knew the 1 or less IM's per year back in the 80's (they only jogged around at IM Japan, but that was it), and marathoners know that they only have one good marathon in the legs all year.

Even in the 2000's Crowie was prettty adamant that you could only do one really fast Ironman run split per year and it was better to save it for Kona (he never really did fast races in Roth or Frankfurt or Austria). The one year that Crowie ran really really fast the same year in Melbourne, was the year he had a bad Kona. But multiple Ironmans is also different from many olympic of half Ironmans.

Ha Lucy Charles herself in a few interview bemoans the fact that she likely swam faster as a 12 year old pure competitive swimmer than now as a top world-class triathlete. So using 12-year old competitive swimming girls is a terrible example for a 'just ok' type of swimmer!

FFS...